TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

[TornadoRed]

I'm too lazy to do the digging - are we seeing crazy high Al from other new Passat TDIs? Everything else looks GREAT.

TS

Here is one:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4518681&postcount=3146

and another:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4250012&postcount=2923

 

[TooSlick]

KS,

The oil is in excellent shape chemically and physically. (TBN, viscosity, flashpoint, soot, etc). No issues with running 10k changes. The Aluminum looks to be normal for this engine, but I haven't seen a good explanation for its' source. I'd do an occasional oil analysis to check on things, but I think you're just fine. The duty cycle of this engine is about optimal for long engine life.

TS

 

[TDI in MT]

I'm about to do the 10k change (actually about 12k now) and because I had to add oil twice during this time (.2 qt @ 2k, and .5 qt at 10k), is another UOA worth it? I would imagine TBN is not.

 

[GibMir1]

@ TDIinMT: What were your previous results? Was there anything concerning or was all OK? If you don't have multiple points of data (e.g. UOAs) then you can not make any valid assumptions of how your engine is performing. You may infer from the tons of data in this thread, but you should not assume the data is the same for your vehicle.

 

[TDI in MT]

The only previous analysis was posted here a few months ago. All normal.

Good point on multiple data points though.

 

[TDI in MT]

Here's the latest. This time I had to add oil twice; .2 qt at 2k, and .5 qt at 10k.

 

[TooSlick]

MT,

Results are fine. You can run 15k service intervals under these driving conditions.

 

[jjblbi]

I am about to perform my 1st (on this car) oil change at 30k miles, 2014 Passat SEL w/DSG. Dealer did first two with Castrol. I prefer Mobil products and can get 5w-40 Delvac 1 ESP, 5w-40 Mobil 1M ESP, or the 5w-30 Mobil 1 ESP 507.00. I understand the warranty implications and am looking for best possible wear protection. Car will get a engine & DSG tune shortly.

Any recommendations? Thanks in advance, John

 

[adjat84th]

Doing a lot of long distance travel for work through the end of the year and thought I'd do a UOA to extend my change intervals. If I run longer intervals, do I need to change the filter still every 10k?

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showfull.php?photo=105985

 

[shuswap]

Doing a lot of long distance travel for work through the end of the year and thought I'd do a UOA to extend my change intervals. If I run longer intervals, do I need to change the filter still every 10k?

Not very helpful, but:
I have skipped changing the filter on my BEW once, maybe twice.....didn't have one on hand as I thought. I still pulled the filter for inspection and suctioned out all the oil from the filter housing(.5L approx)

Not sure if yours is configured the same. I'd normally change the filter simply to ensure that the new oil is wholly NEW, rather than diluted with 10-15% of the old stuff.

 

[TornadoRed]

If I run longer intervals, do I need to change the filter still every 10k?

If there's some reason to replace the filter, then it's time to change the oil OR you should start using higher-quality filters.

I did some used-oil testing many years ago, when my Golf was still young and I was in an experimenting frame of mind. I switched to a 0w30 oil to see if fuel mileage would improve; it didn't but UOA showed very high levels of wear metals. So I switched back to M1 5w40 and wear metals returned to normal levels. Since then I've been running M1 5w40 TDT continuously since 175k miles except for two changes with Castrol 5w40 -- both in mid-winter when it was too cold for me to change my own oil. I buy Wix filters by the dozen, because they're excellent quality and I save money buying in bulk.

For most TDI owners, there is really no need to do any UO testing. Pick an oil, run it a couple times then test if you really want to. But otherwise you can't go wrong with what most other owners are using in the same generation TDI.

 

[TooSlick]

Adj,

A high quality OEM oil filter will last for 15k miles. Looking at the recent test you posted the link to, you have plenty of life on the oil and the engine's in fine shape. You should be fine with 15,000 mile changes provided the driving conditions and fuel quality remain the same.

TS

 

[Stinkyfingers]

I'll second TornadoRed. You can drive yourself nuts with this stuff. I had each oil change analysed and went out to 18,000 miles before deciding to make a practice of changing every 15K under my driving conditions. I change filters when I change oil and have run Rotella synthetic exclusively, for no really good reason other than that seems to have been popular in 2004 when I got my TDI. Now have 380,000+ miles and add about a pint of oil at 10K on my way to my 15k interval.
JohnD

 

[tdivan]

My first UOA. Is it OK?

Hi everyone!
So I have finally got my oil changed after 13000 KM of smooth running without any oil added. I bought my Jet in April this april right after the fresh oilchange with Castrol 5W30.
Couldn't find the same oil so got Rotella T6 and added 1 bottle of Zddp+. Trying to see the difference after another 13K km with my newly installed Amsoil EaBP-90 filter.
Hope there will be no need to add any oil as well during the whole run.
The reason for the post is to ask if you could help me to understand the UOA report. Thanks in advance.

 

[2.2TDI]

I'll throw mine in here

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=422445

 

[SUNRG]

Bob,
Yes a 0w-40/5w-40 oil will shear due to the presence of polymeric thickeners, ie VI modifiers. This is the same base stock blend as the ESP/5w-30, but with probably double the polymer (1.0% vs 0.5%) blended in. That's how they get from 12.0 to 13.7 Cst.
Most European oils are specifically designed to shear down in service. This maintains fuel efficiency over long service intervals and offsets oxidative/evaporative thickening. It looks bad but doesn't affect engine life. (The Mobil 1/0w-40 is the poster child for this type of viscometric behavior in turbocharged, European gas engines)
Ted

Hey Ted, It's been years since I've posted here since we've had no TDI in the family for awhile. I just logged in an see this thread's still going strong and many of the usual suspects are still contributing! This (quoted) post of yours caught my interest because in the last year we picked up a '01 MB E320 wagon and the Mobil oil that meets MB229.5 is their 0w40. I've got some, but I'm more inclined to use the M1 TDT 5w40 - even though it's a n/a gasoline engine and the M1 5w40 isn't 229.5. The vehicle has 275,000 on the original motor and a/t and it runs strong and well.
So, if you were about to change the oil on my 01 MB E320 and on the shelf of the garage you had both M1 0w40 and 5w40 ... my guess is that you'd unhesitantly reach for the 5w40. Your thoughts? Anyone else is welcome to chime in too.
I've also considered using Delvac 15w40 in the E320. I've been running that oil in my car '95 Volvo 850 Turbo (the E320 is my wife's) with great results (though the 850 engine would probably run well on most anything).
Sorry for the off topic (gas MB) inquiry. Cheers!

 

[TooSlick]

SUNRG,

Either oil will work fine in that engine. Since it's not turbocharged and has a big sump the 0w-40 will hold up fine. Given that the weather where you are is about to get cold I'd use the 0w-40 and save the thicker 5w-40 for the Spring & Summer.

A 15w-40 would be okay too, but a lower viscosity synthetic will provide subjectively better engine performance.

Ted

 

[SUNRG]

Thanks Ted!

 

[tikal]

2004 Passat wagon UOA with Schaeffer S9000 5W40

Hello folks:
This is my first UOA on the Passat with 8936 miles on the oil and 150K miles on the engine. I bought this car used in 2012 and one of the first items that was upgraded to was getting Frank's PD Reprofiled Stage II Chrome-Plated Cam (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=326858) @ 119K miles.
I am pleased with the results and looking forward to many more thousand miles on this engine. Comments welcome.

 

[phaser]

 

[TooSlick]

Phaser,

Looks just fine....the 15w-40 synthetic works very well in the PD, as expected. You can extend the service interval to at least 15k miles based on these results.

Note that the apparent oxidation level is very deceptive. An unused sample would register oxidation of about 30-35 abs/cm. This is due to the organic ester component of the base oil blend. The specific ester used has a peak "wave number" similar to the byproducts of oxidation, when tested using FTIR.

 

[phaser]

Thanks TS. That's good to know about the oxidation level, I was concerned.

I'll retest at 15k.

.

 

[manji]

First UOA - 1.9 BXE TDI

Hi,

So this is my first UOA and I had it done because there were some BXE units 2007/2008 which seem to have conrod shells issues. The shells get damaged which leads to catastrophic engine damage.

Any other considerations besides the comments from BS?

The car is driven in the city 90% of the time and in short distances (which is great, I know )

 

[TooSlick]

Manji,

Everything looks just fine. You could extend the service interval to 10k miles, given these results. This is a VW 502/505/505.01 type oil based on the additive levels.

TS

 

[manji]

Thank you for the input, TooSlick!

The mileage is actually in KM, so I ran the oil only about 4000 miles/1year.
I'm currently doing very few miles and I'd say about 90% city driving.

The oil is indeed 505.01 - Castrol Edge FST TD 5W/40.

 

[The Transporter]

Could you guys please tell me what ppm diesel are you using when doing these tests, because the results will be different from a 10 ppm to a 500ppm diesel. Usely your TBN will be lower with a 500 ppm diesel then a 10 or 50 ppm.

Thanks

 

[TornadoRed]

Could you guys please tell me what ppm diesel are you using when doing these tests, because the results will be different from a 10 ppm to a 500ppm diesel. Usely your TBN will be lower with a 500 ppm diesel then a 10 or 50 ppm.
Thanks

If the person posting his UOA is located in the United States or Canada, then the diesel used in his TDI will be ultra-low-sulfur diesel with 15 ppm of sulfur or less. So, assume ULSD unless otherwise stated.

 

[ray96disco]

This is my first post. I'm the proud owner of my first ever diesel and first VW in decades (over 20 with model years ranging from 1957-1972 with the exception of a 1980 Rabbit convertible gasser).

I have driven 13,100 miles since purchasing this wagen and the dealership changed the oil at 9,800 miles. Approximately 50% of my driving is city with a 6-7 mile commute to work. The engine is always at normal operating temperature with at least a couple of miles to go and I never let it idle to warm up before setting out. There are times I lug the engine around but I also like to push it when possible.

Am I correct in assuming city driving will soot up my oil faster and possibly leave me with a tbn too low at 10,000 miles? While I read there's no need to do a uoa before 30,000 miles, how, then, will I know if I've used up the oil's lubricity?

I appreciate all the efforts to keep the uninformed informed. This is a great forum and the enthusiasts are hard at work. Any tips and suggestions for the driving and care of my vehicle are greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance and enjoy your VW's,

 

[RacerTodd]

Am I correct in assuming city driving will soot up my oil faster and possibly leave me with a tbn too low at 10,000 miles? While I read there's no need to do a uoa before 30,000 miles, how, then, will I know if I've used up the oil's lubricity?

I run my '01 TDI in my job as a small package courier. I've put 300,000 miles on the car, with UOA at each 10,000 mile oil change for 30 oil changes in all. Over the years I've had stretches where I've done mostly highway miles and other times when most of my miles are hardcore city driving doing 6-8 stops per hour. I've noticed no different in soot levels during those very different city/highway mixes.

My understanding is that soot in the oil is related to the efficiency of the oil filter. If your soot levels are high, that's a sign that the oil filter isn't doing it's job.

TBN doesn't measure the oil's lubricity. It measures the ability of the additive package to counter acids in the oil. When moisture gets into the oil it forms acid compounds. Those acids damage the metal bits of the engine. The additive package is a base (opposite of an acid). The TBN value (TBN stands for Total Base Number) starts high (say at 11) and goes down as the additive package counters acid buildup. If TBN gets to zero, the oil goes acidic and you'll see high wear numbers. I don't think soot levels have anything to do with reducing the TBN number.

If you're looking to do extended oil change intervals, then TBN is your guide. The lowest TBN you want is 1. Pull a sample, and if you're above 1 then it's OK to wait to change the oil.
In my case, I did a TBN on my 1st UOA only to prove to myself that 10K oil changes were legit. My TBN was 4.1, showing I had plenty of additive left.

 

[TornadoRed]

Am I correct in assuming city driving will soot up my oil faster and possibly leave me with a tbn too low at 10,000 miles? While I read there's no need to do a uoa before 30,000 miles, how, then, will I know if I've used up the oil's lubricity?

We've seen lots of early UOAs of common-rail TDIs -- 10k and 20k mile results. To the best of my recollections, we haven't seen any that showed a need for a shorter oil change interval (OCI) than 10k miles. The early testing shows exactly what one would expect: quite a lot of wear metals during the early break-in period. But the oil itself still has adequate additive levels.

Since you are in Texas, then you should not have to worry about high biodiesel blends like those in Illinois or other states which mandate >10% biodiesel. Those folks probably should be thinking about a shorter OCI, but you are okay.