TDI Touareg viability in the NORTH

[masoste]

Hiya folks,

I have lived in southern Ontario until recently and have had a few TDI Golf’s and Jettas over the last 15+ years there. They’ve been great and I’ve enjoyed working on them. I’ve recently moved to Dawson City Yukon and am looking for a serious SUV for up here and am considering a TDI Touareg, but I’m wondering if it will be reliable in the cold. I’m a little further north than Anchorage Alaska and we regularly get several weeks (in a row) that are below -40° in the winter!

Because of the cold winters and the road here can be rough we’re switched to a 2010 Outback and a 2011Mitsubishi RVR. Both have been kind of underwhelming in both comfort and performance. I’m looking for AWD vehicle to town a 3500lb trailer across the country (to here) in the spring and honestly I just miss driving a diesel.

The techs in town don’t seem to have that much experience working on diesel VWs (I had one put conventional oil in my 2010 TDI golf) although I’m not too worried about that after doing all my own maintenance and repairs for years. My biggest concern about driving a TDI Touareg here is the extreme cold. My secondary concern is if I’ll be getting it up to the long drives required for DPF regens.

While the older V10s are exciting I think that the fuel efficiency of a 3.0L sounds more practical and still sounds very capable for my towing and off/rough road needs.

Should I be limiting my search to vehicles that don’t use DEF / AddBlue?

I’m curious what other folks’ experiences have been like in similar climates such as Alaska, Yukon, or NWT.
Thanks.

 

[PRY4SNO]

I'm only at about 54 degrees north, but we also get sustained weeks of -30°C or -40°C during most winters.

I was skeptical of VWs claim that the Treg would start fine using VW507 oil down to -50°F without a block heater -- due to implied fire hazard -- during the winter, but last year I never had a starting issue once I replaced the factory battery just prior to Christmas. That said, I kind of had to roll the dice because I didn't have an available outlet. This year I'll probably spring for an oil pan heater now that my garage has electrical service.

What was most impressive was how quickly the Touareg would get heat into the cabin after a dead cold start (under 60 seconds idle time), due to the coolant bypass/short circuit that's built in for warm up purposes. The cabin gets full heat by about the time the seat and steering wheel heaters take the edge off the cold.

Unless purchase price is the prime concern, I don't see why the AdBlue models would preclude consideration. My Golf Sportwagen does fine without it (but absolutely requires being plugged in), and my Treg does similarly fine with urea injection. It's just a different chore/expense. You can also delete it or code it out if you choose.

 

[Ragdude]

Hiya folks,

I have lived in southern Ontario until recently and have had a few TDI Golf’s and Jettas over the last 15+ years there. They’ve been great and I’ve enjoyed working on them. I’ve recently moved to Dawson City Yukon and am looking for a serious SUV for up here and am considering a TDI Touareg, but I’m wondering if it will be reliable in the cold. I’m a little further north than Anchorage Alaska and we regularly get several weeks (in a row) that are below -40° in the winter!

Because of the cold winters and the road here can be rough we’re switched to a 2010 Outback and a 2011Mitsubishi RVR. Both have been kind of underwhelming in both comfort and performance. I’m looking for AWD vehicle to town a 3500lb trailer across the country (to here) in the spring and honestly I just miss driving a diesel.

The techs in town don’t seem to have that much experience working on diesel VWs (I had one put conventional oil in my 2010 TDI golf) although I’m not too worried about that after doing all my own maintenance and repairs for years. My biggest concern about driving a TDI Touareg here is the extreme cold. My secondary concern is if I’ll be getting it up to the long drives required for DPF regens.

While the older V10s are exciting I think that the fuel efficiency of a 3.0L sounds more practical and still sounds very capable for my towing and off/rough road needs.

Should I be limiting my search to vehicles that don’t use DEF / AddBlue?

I’m curious what other folks’ experiences have been like in similar climates such as Alaska, Yukon, or NWT.
Thanks.

While I thankfully escaped from the cold many years ago... if you have a garage to park in I wouldn't worry too much about it starting in the cold. If you have a garage with power, maybe put a heated battery blanket and/or a oil pan heater and I'm sure you'll be fine. If it unfortunately needs to sit outside, covering the engine with an old sleeping bag after shutting down for the day helps too (remove before attempting to start)

 

[maxTouareg]

I'm only at about 54 degrees north, but we also get sustained weeks of -30°C or -40°C during most winters.

I was skeptical of VWs claim that the Treg would start fine using VW507 oil down to -50°F without a block heater -- due to implied fire hazard -- during the winter, but last year I never had a starting issue once I replaced the factory battery just prior to Christmas. That said, I kind of had to roll the dice because I didn't have an available outlet. This year I'll probably spring for an oil pan heater now that my garage has electrical service.

What was most impressive was how quickly the Touareg would get heat into the cabin after a dead cold start (under 60 seconds idle time), due to the coolant bypass/short circuit that's built in for warm up purposes. The cabin gets full heat by about the time the seat and steering wheel heaters take the edge off the cold.

Unless purchase price is the prime concern, I don't see why the AdBlue models would preclude consideration. My Golf Sportwagen does fine without it (but absolutely requires being plugged in), and my Treg does similarly fine with urea injection. It's just a different chore/expense. You can also delete it or code it out if you choose.

Regarding the Touareg - I can second that.
I'm still amazed at how quickly this machine warms up in winter. I recently discovered how effective the 'max defrost' button is. I think is uses the electric heat, as when I get in after scraping the windows its quite nice in there. No engine temp yet, but everything else is warm.
Fuel consumption goes up a little in winter (typical) but I do my best to seal the front end which brings it back to almost summer values.
For performance - its a small'ish but heavy vehicle and sticks very well (using winter tires). In sloppy thick snow I turn off the traction control as I feel it tries to hard - to each their own
No issues with DEF in the winter - even on those prairie -40 days. The 300W oil pan heater is a bit of a disappointment but that is potentially a later project.
Mileage is about 9'ish / 6'ish (L/100km city/hwy summer). Pretty good for a 5000lb vehicle (yes mixing units).
Towing performance is excellent - love the torque. Be advised that DEF consumption goes up dramatically compared to conventional driving. Keep a spare 10L in the trailer.
Cheers,

 

[PRY4SNO]

The 300W oil pan heater is a bit of a disappointment but that is potentially a later project.

Wait... what?

I was under the impression that VW deemed oil pan heaters a fire hazard and they didn't offer them in the NAR market? Is yours aftermarket?

I've been looking into one now that I have electricity in my garage. Just wish it was easier to do a block heater...

 

[Johhny04]

There is a member on here from Anchorage, @Mike in Anchorage . I don't know if he has a T-Reg or not but could advise on cold weather operation of TDI's in general. Regarding the T-Reg, from what i've read it is a good machine and shouldn't have any issues managing the colder climate up north.

 

[PRY4SNO]

There is a member on here from Anchorage, @Mike in Anchorage . I don't know if he has a T-Reg or not but could advise on cold weather operation of TDI's in general. Regarding the T-Reg, from what i've read it is a good machine and shouldn't have any issues managing the colder climate up north.

Yeah the word from VW is they're guaranteed to start with proper 507 oil down to -50F.

I don't care what anyone says, cold starts are hard on engines.

 

[Porch]

Just put a frost heater on the car. Right? And shouldn't a Canadian car have a block heater standard? Non- touareg owner here, but I'm about to put one on my jetta tdi. Fwiw, down here in america my car hasn't ever had a problem starting down to like -5f, but after 4 years and 100k miles I'm finally going to give it a break from the cold starts with the frost heater.

 

[Savageman69]

Just put a frost heater on the car. Right? And shouldn't a Canadian car have a block heater standard? Non- touareg owner here, but I'm about to put one on my jetta tdi. Fwiw, down here in america my car hasn't ever had a problem starting down to like -5f, but after 4 years and 100k miles I'm finally going to give it a break from the cold starts with the frost heater.

put that frost heater on a touareg and you wont be starting it.....it will sense the coolant temp and disable glow plugs...this has been documented. frost heater is a big no no on these

 

[Porch]

put that frost heater on a touareg and you wont be starting it.....it will sense the coolant temp and disable glow plugs...this has been documented. frost heater is a big no no on these

That doesn't sound right. Again, not a v6 tdi owner, but the glow plugs on my car always cycle when I turn the key, no matter how hot the weather or how warm the engine is, like for example if I'm on a long trip, make a very short stop but turn the car off and back on, the glow plugs still do their thing. So not sure why a frost heater would trick the car, and not sure why they would make them for v6 TDI's if it was such an issue.

 

[Savageman69]

That doesn't sound right. Again, not a v6 tdi owner, but the glow plugs on my car always cycle when I turn the key, no matter how hot the weather or how warm the engine is, like for example if I'm on a long trip, make a very short stop but turn the car off and back on, the glow plugs still do their thing. So not sure why a frost heater would trick the car, and not sure why they would make them for v6 TDI's if it was such an issue.

This is incorrect. .ive owned 10 tdis...the glow plug cycle is basically non existent when the car is to operating temperature. Seeing the v6 uses push button start that is fully automated unlike the 2.0 setup...if the glow plug cycle is tricked into not staying no on long enough it will begin cranking with no heat in the plugs...thus not starting. Like I said believe it or not a frost heater is more damaging then helpful in a touareg.

 

[Dannyboy]

That doesn't sound right. Again, not a v6 tdi owner, but the glow plugs on my car always cycle when I turn the key, no matter how hot the weather or how warm the engine is, like for example if I'm on a long trip, make a very short stop but turn the car off and back on, the glow plugs still do their thing. So not sure why a frost heater would trick the car, and not sure why they would make them for v6 TDI's if it was such an issue.

Savageman is correct, what you are seeing is the ecu self check/emissions system/glow plug system check. Doesn't mean the plugs are actually running. only the pre-start glow is shown on the dash when very cold because it extends beyond that check. the Glow plug control unit has an algorithm which has glow request vs rpm vs temp vs fuel injection quantity

V6 tdis cooling circuits are wayyyy more complicated than 4 cylinder engines. frostheaters are not a good combo on V6s because they operate on thermosyphon principle and most hoses to tap into are at the top of the engine, bottom of the engine will be stone cold. Espar or webasto have a coolant pump to combat this which is why those are installed instead.
I've had issues with frostheaters causing starting issues on my 4 cylinder tdis before but its usually because i operated it for less than an hour depending on temp

 

[Mike in Anchorage]

There is a member on here from Anchorage, @Mike in Anchorage . I don't know if he has a T-Reg or not but could advise on cold weather operation of TDI's in general. Regarding the T-Reg, from what i've read it is a good machine and shouldn't have any issues managing the colder climate up north.

I don't have the Treg here in Anchorage - it remains in the Lower 48 to tow the Airstream. I am on my second TDI Sportwagen here in Anchorage. This one is a 2015 TDI and also has the electric cabin heater and the quick warm-up routines. It's a different beast, but no problems in the cold at all. I do close the sunroof cover in winter since i'm bald and my head gets cold.

 

[masoste]

Thanks for everyone’s feedback. I’m planning to head to Ontario next week and drive back a 2013 TDI Touareg with the “Exec” level trim.

I’m curious what to use for coolant since this past winter we had several weeks where it didn’t get above -40 and we got down to around -55 for a while.

With our Subaru and Mitsubishi I replaced the coolant with new coolant mixes that were much higher concentrations, but both of them use a blue Asian specific coolant. I understand the TDI requires either G12 or G13 coolant. What are my options for mixes that won’t freeze in -55?

As for garages, that would be nice but most people in Dawson don’t have a garage, myself included.

Pretty much every vehicle here has some sort of electric heater for either the coolant or oil and most also have a battery heater pad. I don’t know how I would add a battery heater in that location under the seat.

With a 80W (or maybe it’s 120W) coolant heater plugged in all night long our Subaru’s engine temp is usually still below freezing in the morning …maybe -10°C. The same for the Ford E-250 van that I drive for work. It definitely needs some sort of heater just to bring it up to a temperature where it will start, but it will never get above freezing with the amount of heat that the coolant/oil heaters put out when it’s outdoors in this climate. If anyone has a heater solution that they’re currently using I’d love to hear about it.

 

[TurboABA]

Make sure you replace the battery with a high end OEM unit right off the bat.
I'd also suggest using a charger to top it off regularly during those harsh winter times..... the Touaregs are pigs when it comes to electrical demand.
Will this specimen still be in AEM coverage? Are you looking at it with VCDS before you pull the trigger?
What kind of proximity to the nearest VW dealer are we talking about? (only relevant if still under coverage really)

 

[mogly]

As someone above stated, look into an Espar or Webasto coolant heater. Rather uncommon here in North America but quite common in Europe. Can get a remote so you can start the unit from 1000M or more.