TDI timing belt

[BuckeyeMan71]

So I was replacing the water pump and timing belt on my Jetta today and noticed that when I put it back together that the timing marker had moved and my cam lock fell out. What should I do?


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[eddieleephd]

Turn it back and stick the lock back in.
Don't go forward, go backwards. Turn the cam back to where it needs to be, anything that moves turns back to where it goes. Then install the belt.

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[csstevej]

Are you loosening the cam pulley and injection pump 3 bolts when doing this?
What are you using for reference when doing the TB change?

 

[BuckeyeMan71]

Turn it back and stick the lock back in.
Don't go forward, go backwards. Turn the cam back to where it needs to be, anything that moves turns back to where it goes. Then install the belt.

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Ok thank you


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[BuckeyeMan71]

Are you loosening the cam pulley and injection pump 3 bolts when doing this?
What are you using for reference when doing the TB change?

No I was following the manual.


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[eddieleephd]

No I was following the manual.


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Three ip bolts should loosen and turn the pulley one tooth to the right so when the belt pulls it back it's centered in the oblong adjustment holes. And be sure they're centered to start .. it's important for timing.

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[jokila]

The camshaft bolt and the 3 IP bolts need to be installed, but slightly loose when you tension the belt. It allows the sprockets to turn slightly during that part. Once you have the tensioner nut tightened, then go back and finalize the torque on the cam and IP sprocket bolts.

 

[Vince Waldon]

The camshaft bolt and the 3 IP bolts need to be installed, but slightly loose when you tension the belt. It allows the sprockets to turn slightly during that part.

^^^^ very important, and in particular you have to break the cam sprocket free so that it is able to rotate on its own.

If it's not loose the tension in the belt has to go somewhere else, and your timing mark on the transmission will move instead.

 

[BuckeyeMan71]

^^^^ very important, and in particular you have to break the cam sprocket free so that it is able to rotate on its own.



If it's not loose the tension in the belt has to go somewhere else, and your timing mark on the transmission will move instead.

So if the timing moved up about and inch but the injector pump didn’t move could I just move the timing marker back down where it needs to be?


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[Vince Waldon]

Not sure what you mean by "timing belt marker"??

The overall process is process is:

- cam sprocket slightly loose
- three IP bolts slightly loose
- transmission at TDC pointer
- cam locked with locking tool
- IP hub pinned with locking pin

then:

- Install belt
- tension belt (cam sprocket and IP sprocket may move slightly, by design)
- tighten cam sprocket using counterhold, tighten IP bolts, confirm transmission pointer has not moved
- remove cam lock bar and IP locking pin
- rotate engine 2 full turns using crank bolt, stop at TDC and confirm locking pin and cam lock will go back

The process is covered really well here:

http://pics3.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf

 

[eddieleephd]

Yeah, the cam sprocket is not keyed do it can be where it needs to be.
I always tighten the pump sprocket so it takes a little force to move it, not much though. Then turn it slightly to the right with the belt around it so it gets into the belt fully and when the tensioner tightens it'll move back to the left that little without being off center in the adjustment range (oblong holes).
Then I put the cam sprocket on with the belt around it and start the bolt until dinner tight.
Release the tensioner once you have the belt centered on all pulleys, sprockets and idlers.
Finally, tighten the IP position bolts and using a counter hold tool tighten the cam sprocket. You must use a counter hold tool! I fabbed mine from angle iron and a few bolts.
The cam sprocket bolt many people use original torque plus 10% to ensure it stays.

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[BuckeyeMan71]

Not sure what you mean by "timing belt marker"??

The overall process is process is:

- cam sprocket slightly loose
- three IP bolts slightly loose
- transmission at TDC pointer
- cam locked with locking tool
- IP hub pinned with locking pin

then:

- Install belt
- tension belt (cam sprocket and IP sprocket may move slightly, by design)
- tighten cam sprocket using counterhold, tighten IP bolts, confirm transmission pointer has not moved
- remove cam lock bar and IP locking pin
- rotate engine 2 full turns using crank bolt, stop at TDC and confirm locking pin and cam lock will go back

The process is covered really well here:

http://pics3.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf

The timing marker on the side of the motor where it bolts to transmission. I will post pictures when I get home from work before I proceed and further with it. This is my first time doing it and it was going good until I got the water pump and everything replaced and then put the belt on. Thanks for all the help


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[Vince Waldon]

OK, yup, that's the transmission TDI pointer on the flywheel.. attached to the crank.

It should stay steady... if it moves during timing belt tensioning one of the other two pulleys (cam or IP) is not loose enough to take up the slack there... so the flywheel moves instead.

People most often forget to loosen the cam sprocket bolt and then break the sprocket loose from the tapered shaft so that it can move freely.
All in the pdf linked above.

 

[jokila]

Yeah, the cam sprocket is not keyed do it can be where it needs to be.
I always tighten the pump sprocket so it takes a little force to move it, not much though. Then turn it slightly to the right with the belt around it so it gets into the belt fully and when the tensioner tightens it'll move back to the left that little without being off center in the adjustment range (oblong holes).
Then I put the cam sprocket on with the belt around it and start the bolt until dinner tight.
Release the tensioner once you have the belt centered on all pulleys, sprockets and idlers.
Finally, tighten the IP position bolts and using a counter hold tool tighten the cam sprocket. You must use a counter hold tool! I fabbed mine from angle iron and a few bolts.
The cam sprocket bolt is TTY (torque to yeild) the Bentley's procedure is in the howto. Many people use original torque plus 10% instead.

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If you are saying that bolt is a TTY aka stretch bolt, I would disagree. It's torque requirement is 33 ft lbs, but I do like a lot of people and bump it to 38 ft lbs.

 

[eddieleephd]

If you are saying that bolt is a TTY aka stretch bolt, I would disagree. It's torque requirement is 33 ft lbs, but I do like a lot of people and bump it to 38 ft lbs.

You're right, brain tweeked the cam and crank. My bad, edited it

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[BuckeyeMan71]

OK, yup, that's the transmission TDI pointer on the flywheel.. attached to the crank.

It should stay steady... if it moves during timing belt tensioning one of the other two pulleys (cam or IP) is not loose enough to take up the slack there... so the flywheel moves instead.

People most often forget to loosen the cam sprocket bolt and then break the sprocket loose from the tapered shaft so that it can move freely.
All in the pdf linked above.

Ok sorry for the delay. I looked over that pdf and found that I lost TDC. At this point do I start all over with the new belt installed and follow the pdf from there skipping over the parts that are already done of course. Sorry this is my first time doing this and I like to learn from my mistakes so as not to do it again.


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[eddieleephd]

Like I said before turn back and find your mark at the pointer.
Pin the pump and set the cam with the tool. Then move the crank left and right until you find the mark and set it at center.

If you turn the crank one way and it stops, a piston is touching the valve, go back and find the mark.

It's best to mark a tooth and the place on the oil pump chain cover as a reference to where it needs to be. That way if you find yourself in this position you can go back easily.

You might find someone else to turn the crank bolt till you see the mark. Use chalk and it'll let you see the mark easier.

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[jokila]

If you have already removed the cam sprocket and need to turn the cam, use vice grips in an area between the lobes.

 

[eddieleephd]

If you have already removed the cam sprocket and need to turn the cam, use vice grips in an area between the lobes.

I would use something flat in the slot the vacuum pump is turned by personally.

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[BuckeyeMan71]

Yeah, the cam sprocket is not keyed do it can be where it needs to be.
I always tighten the pump sprocket so it takes a little force to move it, not much though. Then turn it slightly to the right with the belt around it so it gets into the belt fully and when the tensioner tightens it'll move back to the left that little without being off center in the adjustment range (oblong holes).
Then I put the cam sprocket on with the belt around it and start the bolt until dinner tight.
Release the tensioner once you have the belt centered on all pulleys, sprockets and idlers.
Finally, tighten the IP position bolts and using a counter hold tool tighten the cam sprocket. You must use a counter hold tool! I fabbed mine from angle iron and a few bolts.
The cam sprocket bolt many people use original torque plus 10% to ensure it stays.

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So I followed the pdf file to a T and I have no start. Anything else I can look for


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[BuckeyeMan71]

So I followed the pdf file to a T and I have no start. Anything else I can look for


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The injector pin is where the only hole is when I set top dead center. The white arrow is lined up with the square on the back of the injector pump. My injector pump sits at an angle not straight and I have no start after putting timing belt in and following the pdf to a T. Any solutions anyone can come up with. It’s a 2003 Jetta wagen with 1.9l


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[eddieleephd]

Injector pump is in the wrong place. Based on the picture in the post.
The top of the pump correlates to where the pin should be. There's a hole that is perfectly in line with the top of the pump. This hole is used to pin it. The other is the notorious false hole.


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[BuckeyeMan71]

Injector pump is in the wrong place. Based on the picture in the post.
The top of the pump correlates to where the pin should be. There's a hole that is perfectly in line with the top of the pump. This hole is used to pin it. The other is the notorious false hole.


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The only thing is that that’s how it’s been since I’ve owned the car. So if it’s in wrong how do I fix it? It looks like someone has changed it before and put those markings on there. The only way to get that hole in line is to have the hole at the bottom of the pump and then it’ll line up.


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[Vince Waldon]

Best bet is to ignore any paint markings... they are not factory, not needed, and probably wrong now that the belt has been replaced.

Remove the belt, get everything at TDC (transmission pointer, cam with sprocket loose, IP locked with the pin)... install the belt...timing will be perfect.

If need be, while the belt is off completely remove the three small bolts on the IP sprocket (NOT the big centre bolt) and then the IP sprocket itself, so that you can find the actual alignment hole at the top of the IP and convince yourself it's there.

Again... ignore the paint marks. Generally considered to be the sign of someone not doing the job right in the first place.

 

[eddieleephd]

What Vince said. Marks mean nothing unless VW put them there..

Turn it back to TDC. Set the cam with the cam alignment tool.

The important part with the IP is to center the cog and then turn it to line up with the top of the pump so the pin goes in the hole.
When putting the belt on, as I said before, turn it a little bit to the right so it gets the tooth aligned. When you tension the belt it'll move back to be correct.

Then let the tensioner go and tighten the cam and IP bolts. Torque the cam bolt no more than 40lbs max. I've read of the cam sprocket getting stuck when to tight!

Cam must be locked in place, crank must be at -0- on the trans alignment hole, and the pump must be pinned in the hole at the top of the pump! Otherwise you'll have a no start.

And finally, remember to turn it over with a wrench twice around to ensure you can put the locks back in and the crank lines up like it's supposed to. If you do this, it should fire right up...

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[eddieleephd]

Again... ignore the paint marks. Generally considered to be the sign of someone not doing the job right in the first place.

The only mark I trust is the one I put on the crank tooth and housing while it's at TDC so I can turn it back without looking in the trans flywheel hole. Then look in sight the hole to ensure it's at the -0- and exactly where it needs to be.
I make that mark with either chalk, or soap Stone so it disappears between belt changes as that's how long it's trustworthy.

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[nokivasara]

The only thing is that that’s how it’s been since I’ve owned the car. So if it’s in wrong how do I fix it? It looks like someone has changed it before and put those markings on there. The only way to get that hole in line is to have the hole at the bottom of the pump and then it’ll line up.
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If I understand you correctly it sounds like you have the engine 180 degrees off. Or at least the IP. Turn crank one more full turn, 360. If that does't do it, then you should go back to step one:
Line up the crank TDC point/mark and make sure the cam lobes on #1 cyl are pointing up and that the cam lock tool slides in nicely. Turn the IP until the pin slides in the hole at the top.
Button everything back together and take it for a spin!

 

[jokila]

There is some miscommunication going on with what the OP is saying and what we are thinking he is saying.

OP - the last pic you send with the IP is clearly showing the pin is not in the correct hole. The top of the IP is actually tilted over and is marked by the smooth area you circled in yellow. Make sure the pin of the pump is there before you put the belt on.

At this point you need to redo things. Here is what I would do.

1) Get crank to TDC with the mark on the bell housing of the trans.
2) Make sure the cam lock tool can enter the back of it. (Yeah, you are going to need to remove the valve cover and vacuum pump).
3) Loosen the tensioner.
4) Pop the cam sprocket and remove the sprocket
5) move the belt off the IP sprocket.
6) Rotate the IP sprocket until you can see the correct hole and stab the pin.
7) As been said before, loosen the three IP sprocket bolts and turn the bolt heads slightly to the left of center of the slots (which you do by turning the sprocket slightly to the right).
8) Put the belt on the IP sprocket.
9) put the cam sprocket on and thread the bolt enough to install it but allow the sprocket to turn freely from the cam.
10) Double check the crank mark to make sure it has not moved.
11) Tension the belt and tighten tensioner nut.
12) double check the crank mark.
13) torque the cam sprocket bolt.
14) torque the IP sprocket bolts.

It will start up.

 

[eddieleephd]

∆∆∆∆∆∆∆that exact process∆∆∆∆∆∆∆

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[hollowhead]

Use a mirror and a light to see when the holes line up.