TDI painful experience. HELP NEEDED

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
INTRODUCTION:
Let me start off by saying, enjoy this forum and others like it very much. Very helpful information out there, if you know where to look. I have a 2012 VW JSW TDI, bought in January 2015. Long story short, i bought it salvage, didn't do anything with it due to the emission scandal coming out, and then fixed what VW told me to fix (flipping from salvage to prior salvage). 3+ years later of doing what they asked, and waiting for the "prior salvage" issues to get resolved on VW's side, they denied my claim as well as my appeal via email. No clarification as to why. Car has basically sat still during this time. Can't get the fix either. No clue as to why on ANY OF IT. I'm crushed, but i'll get over it and fix this thing properly.

REPAIR:
In "fixing" it, i took to a repair shop here in KC as the alternator mount was broken (interlocks with the HPFP) so timing would be an issue that I'm not familiar with. They timed it, it would move on its own, but not much more than that. i replaced the VNT mechanism, and it runs GREAT. 40 mpg all stock. Until yesterday.

THIS PART SUCKS:
Hop in to run a quick errand, grab my groceries, and car won't stay running more than 1 second. Call a tow, drop me off at house and hook up vcds and get an error code for camshaft/crankshaft signal error (00022 i believe). Let it sit for a few hours, car starts up, test drive it, and at 60mph it dies. Call tow truck, same damn driver appears and tows me home.

In doing some investigative work, i pull timing belt cover off and see one of the roller bolts is loose (small one, top right). Belt is still loose, so i keep digging and find the Large Roller (middle right) BOLT has BROKEN off. Car no go, and i can't catch a break. Its a money pit. Call shop that did timing (less than 200 miles on it since timing work done but its been a few months) and they have - can you believe it - CLOSED THEIR DOORS FOR GOOD a few months ago. MOTHERF!!!!!! They probably reused the bolt, engine torque from belt with WOT probably killed it.

QUESTION:
My luck with life lately has been complete ****. While i wallow in self pity, what do i do? I'm assuming since belt broke and engine quite running, i need to pull heads to look for valve contact and to retime properly? there are a few guides out there for retiming but not much on pulling heads. where do i take the head if it is INDEED damaged? How do i release pressure in fuel line? Would this be same procedure of changing fuel filter or is it in the rail? Would full insurance cover any of this, or would i have better luck finding a train to do a meet and greet with my front end?

Thanks guys for reading my rambling. There's been a ton of other S that's gone on with this car, but this is it in a nutshell. I thought i was home free as i have been driving it finally.....my 2006 vw has 260k miles on it and transmission is going. i need options fairly quickly...
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
***EDIT***
I've ordered the new bolts and tools required. Would it be easier to pull the engine or accessible enough to do in the car? I think only thing in the way is the frame! I'm assuming since i have it all undone to check the HPFP as well (look for metal shavings)? Anything else to check while it's down? Main concern is the head and figuring out how to back out the broken bolt that is 1/2 inside of block.

On a side note, I've flipped 10+ cars from salvage to prior salvage, almost all VW's. Nothing has ever been this big of a money pit (first TDI).
 

afeinstein

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Location
Cleveland, OHIO
TDI
2011 Sportwagen
Related question

Since you have so much experience with salvage, I thought I would ask you this. I am sorry for the bad experience you are having with the 2012 JSW.

I bought a 2011 JSW TDI from Copart and fixed it up. It now has a rebuilt salvage title. This vehicle was a buy back, had fixes done in Oct 2018 and was sold Dec 2018, and then was in an accident in March 2019. So it got the salvage title after the fixes were done.

Do you know how VW will treat this situation? DO they continue to stand by the complete warranty on all the fixes even after the car has gotten a salvage title after that?
 

JELLOWSUBMARINE

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
yes
TDI
2011 JSW 2.0tdi 6m 1983 VW p/u 1.6 IDI 5m
Stay strong brother, you dont sound like a quiter. Life can toss its share of crap but for me anyway I try to focus on good times that will be there in these cases
How many miles are on the car? You may want to pull the head to evaluate the go no go of the job 1st. Simply meaning is this particular JSW worth the cost or effort? I've owned a Passat TDI and now the JSW and by far one of my best allaround cars. I am a fan of only buying good histoty used cars simply some cars are just Monday built cars.
Keep us posted
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
Thanks guys. I've had a few restless nights, but feeling better about it today. Last timing job i did was on a F150, took me 3 weeks of research but finally big the bullet and did it, ran great afterwards. I can do this...just gotta find the right material.

afeinstein, VW will not touch that car again for any warranty work once it's been salvaged. I've had zero luck in taking in things for recalls, which is understandable but also irritating.

Jello- vehicle only has 50,005 miles on it. Hence the reluctance to give up on it just yet. I'm going to pull the heads to be sure, will post pictures but it'll be a week or two before i get to it. Gotta finish ordering all the bolts and gaskets as i hate letting a project sit while i'm in the middle of it. I'll be back this weekend to post any links I've found in case this happens to anyone else.
 

vincej

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Location
Calgary
TDI
2014 Golf Wagon
My father in law used to say do it little by little. I think you'll get there in the end. Maybe consult with someone close to you that knows these engines well, if you can find him.

I wouldn't worry about the "fix". Your car will run better without it. I know that some people did nothing and are still driving their cars as they bought them new.
 

atomicalexc

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Location
San Diego
TDI
2014 Golf
Should make this a running thing, keep us updated. I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said but I feel your pain and would love to see you succeed over this car.
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
I think I’m going to try and Dremel the bolt smooth, and tap into it with a left handed drill bit. Will require removing the engine I think. As soon as the weather permits working outside (been very rainy) I’m getting started. Tried calling around to shops for an estimate as I’m close to biting the bullet but A. it’s a volkswagen and B. It’s a diesel. No one but dealership will touch it. Glad they’re upfront about it but would be nice to have a tech here to bounce questions off of. Will keep you updated though!!! My spirits are up thanks to you all
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
PS how do i add pictures? would be nice if this were a mobile app...lol. do i upload them to something like imgur and add the link?
 

JesseTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Location
Missouri
TDI
2012 Golf TDI, Premium package
If you find yourself not being able to fix it yourself you do have a TDI guru right down the road from you in Belton, Mo. The name of the place is Cool Air Auto. From what I've seen he has a solid reputation and is very knowledgeable.
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
If you find yourself not being able to fix it yourself you do have a TDI guru right down the road from you in Belton, Mo. The name of the place is Cool Air Auto. From what I've seen he has a solid reputation and is very knowledgeable.

My man! thanks Jessi, i'm going to give him a call when i dig into it.
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
I'm back

OK so quick update with a question

I've officially had to do an engine swap. Long story short, found one on ebay for $600, only difference was a connector on front of engine that i'm assuming is for the fog lights on previous car (connector is shaped like headlight connectors, but only 3 wires going to it and there's only one???) I have double/triple checked everything is plugged in/nothing is missing.

Took about 20 hours total - lots of nights and weekend work. BUT ITS IN! popped the cover on old one and all cam followers are snapped, so i'm assuming valves are crushed as well.

Now a new issue has emerged. I'm not getting any fuel. I run vcds to prime the system, and can hear the pump in tank (lift pump im assuming) running. My auxiliary pump never comes on though. When should this get power? I thought i could hear it before when doors would open or turn the key on? No voltage what so ever. Checked wiring diagrams for hours today, checked the fuse under the dash SC27 and J17/J832and it all checks out. Still, no power.

I've been trying to prime the system by hooking up a battery/cables to power the aux. pump. VCDS says to run system 30 seconds and do it 3 times but i've gone longer than that, and i get no fuel. Replaced fuel filter and filled housing/repeat/nothing. Is there something I'm missing here? Do i need to run this for hours? Only 50k miles on it...but do i need a new one? That doesn't fix the power situation though.

1A: Why wouldn't a closed system prime? Even if it wasn't closed, system should still be pumping fuel in one direction, right?

1B:What would cause no power to aux. unit as that wiring cable hasn't been touched (runs by ECM so no kinkage possible/wasn't moved).

I'm ready to burn it all down....
 

Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
So do you have VCDS? I couldn't tell based on your description of what you are doing to prime the system.

did you check the new replacement engines HPFP for blockage (AKA HPFP Shrapnel) on the micro filter screen on the black removable sensor on it?

was the engine in an obviously wrecked car or did it look normal otherwise but still in the junkyard.
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
Yes i used vcds, will figure out how to post that info here after work hopefully.

I pulled the black electrical thing on HPFP and no blockage. Car was wrecked on driver side, nothing with engine was damaged. I'm running VCDS to run fuel pump (can hear it run) through both the basic settings 035 and also by selecting fuel pump through output tests. Auxillary fuel pump doesnt turn on due to no voltage going to it. but again no wires were messed with on that so I'm not sure why I'm not getting any power to it (J49)?
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
I'm going to swap the wiring harness back to original. Read something where dude had same issue. Hoping to have this done tomorrow if all goes well
 

JELLOWSUBMARINE

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
yes
TDI
2011 JSW 2.0tdi 6m 1983 VW p/u 1.6 IDI 5m
Did you check/reset the "roll over switch"? Any abrupt hit or roll over will trip it, shutting off fuel power.

EDIT:
Im sorry its been awhile since reading your initial issues on the first post. I dought the roll over has been tripped. Wont hurt to check though
 
Last edited:

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
Wiring harness is swapped and my "electrical" issue is resolved. I now have power going the auxiliary fuel pump, but ran into a new friggin issue.

Lift pump in tank works. Have ran it both by adding a connection and battery power, and also through VCDS. Changed fuel filter, i have flow out of all lines so no clogs or kinks.

Auxiliary pump on the other hand - i have no idea. I've connected clips to both sets of wiring connectors (front and back), and pump works great. I even took out pump and ran diesel fuel separately to make sure fuel was being pumped. WORKS PERFECT. But when I run it through VCDS - I get a "grinding" noise like the pump is trying to blow up. Fuses check out. relays check out. Power going to it checks out. I felt it, and the silver is SUPER hot, again, like it's trying to explode. Continuity through wires are good.

How in the sam hill does electricity running to it work fine, but electricity through car and it acts completely different? fuel rail pressure through VCDS shows 8.0 bar (actual) and requested is 268.0 bar or something, so it'll never start. Thoughts?? I'm at a loss.

**EDIT**
I'm assuming the 268 bar requested is once running, from the HPFP. I've looked through the CR TDI self study and I'm not seeing much more than what i've looked for.

8 bar=116 psi
 
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ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
I even ran a new ground to it, no change.

TO RECAP: all lines hooked up, and i run power to it remotely, pump acts fine and "pushes" fluid. Run it through VCDS and pump wants to Twist out of itself. I've even noticed flexing where it connects to the HPFP. Gets super hot within seconds with vehicle power, as it can't push fuel (moving fuel is the fan for it). Power going to it checks out.
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
You will never believe this. I reversed power to it and it runs as it should.

Don't ask me how, as i have no idea, but somehow the wires got switched, so the pump was acting like a real jerk. Connector is one direction, as are the wires that are connected. Connection bolts on the pump are different sizes, i.e. you can't switch them without making the positive connection hole bigger. I have no idea, but if your aux. pump starts doing that, reverse polarity and see if that corrects....***.

Anyways, i'm priming the system now, and hopefully we'll have take off.
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
no start still. Not seeing more than 8.0 bar on fuel pressure, no clue if this is enough or not, but i'm assuming not?
 

ihatespeed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Location
holbrook, ma
TDI
11 tdi wagon 6mt 15 golf 6mt (Wife's)
You might have trash in the HPFP head, I had that happen, its a metal on metal check valve, so anything can make it leak and you will get no start no run.. easy enough to take apart, crack the bolt in the center of the head to loosen it, remove the fuel out line and then take out the 4 torx bits, be careful to undo progressively, its under spring tension. this is also a great time to check for cam and roller damage, take the head apart, flush with your favorite o ring friendly solvent and reassemble. I never actually saw what was clogging me up, I assume a bit of o ring, but that's how little it takes. that was 50000 miles ago btw..
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
I bought some ball bearings for an easy ball bearing test, but assumed once this is checked off its the HPFP that came with engine i bought. I'll swap them out next weekend - will keep you updated. Cams/rollers look good on engine i put in. Old one had all the rockers broken in half from timing jumping/crumbling the engine. I HAVE noticed the HPFP electrical connector (where you check for metal shavings) has a buzzing noise coming from it, almost like the static from a TV. Voltage is good, and it's intermittent, but I'm thinking its from fuel not flowing, so it's not registering - thus the noise when it should be engaging. I'll swap HPFP and then that connector if needed, but wont be until next week.
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
Have it running!!!!!! Still have a few things to do, as the test drive showed temp gauge at 190 while idling (perfect) but driving it runs hot. Going to switch the thermostat and the inline thermostat at DSG. Other than that, the issue was HPFP was clogged on engine i bought, which is why my aux. pump was malfunctioning. switched wires back to original position, primed system (specified still showed 230 bar requested and actual was 0 bar to 8 bar, but upon start up it's in line with specified). It's been a long road but we're finally there! Thanks my dudes!!
 

Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
Congratulations. it sucks that whenever a used HPFP is acquired it needs to be thoroughly inspected for damage internally.

I would have thought it would be safe to assume it was a good running unit since you said that the car you got the whole replacement engine out of had been hit on the Drivers side (causing it to be in the yard you found it in). If the car was in the Yard but had no signs of crash damage and otherwise looked fine. I would have been even more suspect of HPFP issues.

Either way congratulations on finally getting it going again.

One question I have is why was your timing belt replaced at only 50k miles originally? was the system damaged in the original event that caused your car to be salvage in the first place?
 

ntmzp9

Active member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Independence
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
it was replaced due to the mounting bracket for alternator/hpfp was damaged from a wreck. bought it salvage, been a nightmare ever since. hah!

I'm def. learning as we go here.
 

JELLOWSUBMARINE

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
yes
TDI
2011 JSW 2.0tdi 6m 1983 VW p/u 1.6 IDI 5m
it was replaced due to the mounting bracket for alternator/hpfp was damaged from a wreck. bought it salvage, been a nightmare ever since. hah!

I'm def. learning as we go here.
Kudos to you! That was one hell of ride to the end. I admire your tenacity.
 
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