wndboy
Well-known member
My car temp gauge once it fully warm stays at 190 * F. Just wondering if that is normal. I changed the thermostat a couple of days ago and temp still remain exactly at 190.
TDI Operating temperature
- Thread starter wndboy
- Start date
Windjammer
Veteran Member
Normal
fnjimmy!
Chucklechump
Why did you change the thermostat?
Variant TDI
Veteran Member
The temp gauge, by design, is not 'accurate'. It's an idiot gauge... just slightly better than a warning light.
If it's on the bottom: You've just started your car, and it's cold.
If it's in the middle: Your car has been running for a while.
If it's in the red: It's probably too late.
If you want to know your actual coolant temperature, get a ScangaugeII or similar device.
Prior to my Thermostat change, my car rarely exceeded 170F, unless I was in heavy traffic in the city. After the change, it ranges between 185 and 204, which is normal.
At all of these times, the cluster gauge said a rock steady 190.
If it's on the bottom: You've just started your car, and it's cold.
If it's in the middle: Your car has been running for a while.
If it's in the red: It's probably too late.
If you want to know your actual coolant temperature, get a ScangaugeII or similar device.
Prior to my Thermostat change, my car rarely exceeded 170F, unless I was in heavy traffic in the city. After the change, it ranges between 185 and 204, which is normal.
At all of these times, the cluster gauge said a rock steady 190.
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
The coolant temperature gauge will indicate 90C (194F), if the actual coolant temperature varies between approx. 75C (167F) and 107C (225F)
Bentley fan operating points:
low speed
on - 197-206 F (92-97 C)
off - 183-195 F (84-91 C)
Fast speed
on - 210-221 F (99-105 C)
off - 195 - 208 (91-98 C)
Bentley fan operating points:
low speed
on - 197-206 F (92-97 C)
off - 183-195 F (84-91 C)
Fast speed
on - 210-221 F (99-105 C)
off - 195 - 208 (91-98 C)
josh8loop
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2009
- Location
- Vero Beach, Fl.
- TDI
- 2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
jettawreck
Top Post Dawg
This is exactly correct. Cluster gauge is intentionally "vauge". Unless you have a digital gauge (such as VCDS or Scan Gauge) hooked up or test the coolant in the recovery tank, you really don't know where the coolant temp is. Failed stats will still usually show "normal" 190 on the cluster gauge if they reach 165 range as Dan points out. Unless the "new" stat is aan OEM or some other quality part, it may not operate at the stated temp. I went thru that last year-new "generic" stat didn't get any warmer than the failed one. Test the new one to make sure you are getting up to temp, especially if you live where it gets cold.
wndboy
Well-known member
Thanks everyone, Just bought car and want to make sure what is normal. MPG's are kinda dissapointing though...29.78 MPG during my first tank. This is after cleaning the intake, EGR and taking my tire pressure to 40 PSI. Driving it like a baby too. Only CEL code was a PO402-EGR flow to high. Code is now clear and hasn't come on for over a week. Any suggestions
fnjimmy!
Chucklechump
A few random thoughts:
It's easy to waste a lot of time and money fixing things that aren't broken because you assume that they are.
In general it's not the best to "baby" a TDI. The turbo seal design allows oil to leak into the intake piping when it's not boosting. Babying also doesn't cycle the turbo well and can lead to a sticky/incorrectly functioning turbo actuator. The only time you should baby it is when you have reason to believe there is an issue you could make worse by driving the car hard, like if it keeps going into limp mode, or it's making a funny noise etc.
What RPM is your engine at 60mph? The fact that your car is an automatic leads me to suspect your poor fuel economy may be due to the transmission not shifting into the correct gear.
wndboy
Well-known member
Good point fnjimmy....I will check my RPM at 60 and get back to you. Thanks
jettawreck
Top Post Dawg
Due to the way diesel fuel foams and the "expansion tank" incorporated into the fuel tank (gasser fuel tank design) unless you carefully fill it to the rim each time your fill amounts can be VERY inconsistant. Do a search on "venting" and/or "ventectomy" and learn how to fill the tank consistantly for accurate data. If you fill until the pump auto shuts off your results can be all over the place when you do the math.
wndboy
Well-known member
Thanks again everyone. I checked the RPM at 60 MPH and it was at 1950...
I also noticed that the car shifts into 4th gear at around 40 MPH. Is this normal?
The car also has an K&N Filter. It was there when I bought it. I will remove and replace it with a good non K&N filter.
I was told to clean the cleaner box and tubing with a non clorinated break cleaner and spray the element on the MAF. Hopefully it's still good.
I also noticed that the car shifts into 4th gear at around 40 MPH. Is this normal?
The car also has an K&N Filter. It was there when I bought it. I will remove and replace it with a good non K&N filter.
I was told to clean the cleaner box and tubing with a non clorinated break cleaner and spray the element on the MAF. Hopefully it's still good.
jettawreck
Top Post Dawg
Replace with the stock air box/element. May have to go the salvage yard route for a replacement, or pony up for a new/used one.
Some of the gurus say don't spray clean the MAF. Its a film type unit that doesn't fare well. Others have has success with cleaning. Personally I wouldn't unless I knew it was giving issues and had notheing to lose.
Auto that shifts into 4th at 40 is probably normal under very light load. Can only guess there because thankfully I have never owned one of the 01M units.
josh8loop
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2009
- Location
- Vero Beach, Fl.
- TDI
- 2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Another good reason to baby it.......It has an 01M !! I had to do this with mine until I did the swap, and your right it can exacerbate the vane sticking issue.
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fnjimmy!
Chucklechump
Sounds to me like he has a drop in filter in the stock airbox so no need to obtain another one. 1950 sounds about right at 60, I don't have an 01M either but in the past people have observed high engine speeds at freeway speeds in conjunction with transmission malfunction. I don't have personal experience with MAFs but from what I've read, cleaning them should be a last-ditch effort before replacing them, as cleaning has been correlated to failure. I understand there is a way to "test" the MAF by unplugging it but I don't know the details so I'll leave it for someone else.
josh8loop
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2009
- Location
- Vero Beach, Fl.
- TDI
- 2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Mine used to shift to 4th around 43MPH if I remember correctly, and it would stay in forth until you went lower than 38 MPH. For sure, lose the K&N and go back to the standard OEM type paper filter. MAF cleaner has been known to work on the MAF, but not always. Worth a try for a last ditch as mentioned before
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jettawreck
Top Post Dawg
Usually the K & N system ditches the OEM airbox. If its just a K & N drop in filter element he has it still there, so much the better, but I doubt it. Just get an OEM filter. And take care of the 01M as long as possible (RIP).
RPMs sound OK, so it must be in high gear and torque converter locking properly.
I think some full vented tank fills and updated data will tell more.
fnjimmy!
Chucklechump
He used the term "cleaner box", I'm not sure what part of a cone filter setup that would refer to.
wndboy
Well-known member
Cleaner box was mean as the OEM air filter box sorry! I will replace and test my MAF by disconnecting it. If I notice a difference, I will leave it alone. If no difference, I will clean it with a MAF cleaner. Re: Fill up's... If I just push in on the small air bleed valve on the left side of the filler tube. That will be the same as a ventectomy right? If not I will do one.... Thanks again....
fnjimmy!
Chucklechump
Hmm I could be wrong, but I thought if you noticed more power with the MAF unplugged, there was a problem with it, and if you noticed no difference, it was considered to be "OK". Where did you get your info?
jettawreck
Top Post Dawg
Yep, if you disconnect it and notice an increase the MAF is bad and if its worse or even about the same its most likely OK.
fnjimmy!
Chucklechump
remove your airbox and air snorkel and check your snowscreen too. If it's clogged enough to open the bypass it could cause an incremental reduction in power/economy.
jettawreck
Top Post Dawg
Yes, pushing the button inside the fill neck will do it. In fact, I haven't taken it out of the '03 yet and I should. Getting tired of getting diesel on my finger when holding it in, but not bad in the warm weather. The one in the '01 just popped out like nothing to it, and since I drive that one in the cold weather, anything that makes fueling easier/quicker/drier is good when its cold and windy.
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
When you unplug the MAF, a stock ALH or BEW engine will substitute in 550 mg/stroke of air flow at all times. Since normal full power air flow is about 800 mg/stroke, you should notice a slight power reduction (about 30%) under full power operation with the MAF unplugged.
(when the MAF is unplugged)
So I would say that if your power is unchanged you may have a MAF sensor or actual air flow problem.
If your power is better you definitely have a MAF or air flow issue.
If your power is worse then your MAF and actual air flow is ok.
wndboy
Well-known member
Well TDI Friends, I think I've found my problem. Replaced K&N Filter with FRAM Air filter. Cleaned MAF with a MAF cleaner.... A lot of oily residu came out when cleaning MAF. Snow screen was severely clogged. Leaves, Grass, Trash and who knows what else. Flapper valve inside gose neck was partitually open due to the trash. I will post my results during my next Milage check. Can't wait. Wow who would of thought playing around with these vehicles would be this much fun. I think this is a hobby now. Thanks everyone
jettawreck
Top Post Dawg
So there definately was an air flow (and perhaps metering) issue(s).Well TDI Friends, I think I've found my problem. Replaced K&N Filter with FRAM Air filter. Cleaned MAF with a MAF cleaner.... A lot of oily residu came out when cleaning MAF. Snow screen was severely clogged. Leaves, Grass, Trash and who knows what else. Flapper valve inside gose neck was partitually open due to the trash. I will post my results during my next Milage check. Can't wait. Wow who would of thought playing around with these vehicles would be this much fun. I think this is a hobby now. Thanks everyone
Was the K&N unit an oiled foam unit that fit in the OEM box complete with the cover on?
Hope you get some improvement. Let us know how it runs now. It should go smoothly right up toward redline if the MAF is working properly.
I suspect the mileage will never be outstanding with the automatic and the TX temps.
wndboy
Well-known member
Yes the K&N was an oiled foam unit and fit in the OEM box with cover on. Car seems to run better but now has a curious hesitation when I step on it the pedal midway through the hard excellaration process. I think I might of messed up my MAF. I cleaned it with a MAF cleaner that is suppose to be designed just for MAF. I was also sugested to clean with non clorinated break fluid. I used the MAF cleaner instead. I saturated the MAF trying to get all the oil residue from inside. I probably did not let it dry enough? I might use the break cleaner. It seems to try quicker and less oily. I will wait for any sugestions. Thanks
fnjimmy!
Chucklechump
Is the hesitation the transmission shifting and maybe taking a bit longer due the engine being wound out? I've never had an 01m but given their reputation I can't imagine full throttle upshifts are good for them.
jettawreck
Top Post Dawg
I suspect the MAF, if its original, has failed. All three TDIs I've owned ('00/'01/'03) have all had the MAFs fail, or been that way when I got them. All have acted a bit differently, also. The one in the '03 actually seemed "normal" until about 3200rpm, where it fell flat then would recover a bit and accelerate again. Now its fine with the new one.
Guru Oilhammer says these "film type" MAFs should not be spray cleaned, although I figure if they aren't working correctly what have you got to lose? Some have revived them, others not. Given that, I would not try cleaning one that wasn't known to be "bad".
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Cogen Man
Veteran Member
I'd avoid using the brake cleaner. Is the MAF on this engine the film or wire type? If film, I've heard that they really can't be cleaned with MAF cleaner because it will damage the film. Sounds like too much oil was sprayed on that K&N filter. That'll kill a MAF quick.