TDI in snow

[shirish_bh]

Hello,
I drove about 120 miles today around metro Detroit. We had a blizzard here today. The TDI Golf seems to be an excellent car to drive around in snow. (Maybe 4WD could be handy as well). There are a few reasons why its such a good car in snow.

1. Diesel engine braking comes in handy. I hardly needed to use the brakes.

2. A heavier engine means more traction for the front wheels.

I was extremely happy with the performance. I am sure most of you will agree.

 

[TDIMeister]

I agree and disagree about the benefit of low-end torque with driving on the snow. More low-end makes it easier to break traction in the instances when you dip into that go-pedal.

OTOH, maybe what I gather Think Diesel said is that the same torque allows one to drive at a higher gear (say 3rd instead of 2nd) and not in the peaky torque band caused by the multiplication of the gears.

Shirish and I work at the same company and live within 15 miles of each other. I can attest to the TDI's driving capabilities in the freak snow fall in the Auburn Hills, MI area last night. I rode a couple of times in a heavier Ford Taurus and thought my Passat had far better traction, even with stock 60-series Eagle GAs. Not only that, the car just seemed far more composed and balanced. Credit goes to the chassis engineers. Words cannot begin to express how amazed I was at the Passat's abilities and what a joy it was to drive in spite of foot-high snow on some side roads.

I couldn't help but laugh at the many people on the road who found the ditch because of a combination of vehicle, lack of driving skill and driving too fast for the weather conditions.

 

[Ossian]

I have to agree that the TDI is great in snow. I've driven over 150 miles in MI here since the storm began without incident. I was also the only non-SUV that could make it through my un-plowed sidestreet this am.

For the record, I pulled the stock tires a few weeks ago (lousy LS's) and installed Yokohama Guardex snows. Really good snow and ice tire, and a lot less squirmy than Blizzaks in the dry. No problems maintaining 60+ mph on completely snow covered highways. I was initially concerned about driving such a short wheelbase car on snow-rutted roads, but it really tracks well.

Im not missing my AWD Subaru nearly as much as I though I would this winter.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The best part I like is that you dont have to give it any throttle what so ever. Just ease off of the clutch and let Mr. ECU do the throttling for you. Works great in slow traffic. I have the BFG Comp T/A's and am very pleased with the snow traction so far. Not a true snow tire but a capable one at that. Definitely a great road tire. Maybe I get a set of snow tires on some cheap steel rims for the winter only.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This is the first winter for my Jetta and I'm amazed at how good it handles. The first snowstorm hit here on nov 21 right at rush hour,it was great watching all the bozos forget that this stuff comes every year.Coming out of work you have to drive up a big hill,no salt yet and trucks and cars were stuck or close to it,I just scooted right around them and up the hill I went. That was the first snow ever for the car and needless to say it passed the test for me.I notice the car has very little ground clearance.How does that belly pan hold up to those chunks of snow and ice that fall off cars and trucks on the hiway and your not able to dodge them.

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2000 JETTA TDI GLS 5speed

 

[BoraTdi]

We got a record 20 inch snowfall last January here in Central NC, and nobody was expecting it. I was living alone in Durham at the time, and all my friends were in Raleigh and Cary, as was my girlfriend at the time. I went to bed expecting 4-6 inches and woke up with my car pretty much covered up. Anyway, the weather and DOT people said if you must drive do it then as it was expected to freeze and get slick later in the day and evening. SO rather than be stuck alone for what would end up being 3 days of no work and utter isolation, I spent 2 hours shoveling my Jetta out of the parking lot, and piloted down I-40 from Durham to Cary taking a couple of untraveled sideroads once I got there to get to my friend's house. You should have seen the dismayed looks on people in big SUVs as I plowed through well over a foot of virgin snow. The last road I took had one path of tracks on it, so I just hit the throttle and plowed through, knowing if I stopped I would likely get stuck. As I neared the end of the road I was head-on looking at a Grand Cherokee, and the guy pulls off to let me pass and as I do he has his window down yelling "are you ****ing crazy!" I just smiled and waved. Who says you need an SUV in a blizzard?

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Will
99.5 Black Jetta GLS
SR, Beetle wheels, Momo Shadow Carbon
"Upsolute power corrupts Upsolutely!"

 

[think diesel]

Diesel engine braking is sort of a myth--- I'll let someone else explain why.

I agree these are good cars in the snow. Another reason is the large amount of low-end torque--- that makes it very easy to keep your RPM's low and avoid the wheelspin in snow and ice that plagues lightweight ricebox cars with high-revving 16v 4 cylinders in the winter

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1999 New Jetta GL TDI
Atlantic Blue/Gray studio

Mein auto wurde von den stolzen arbeitern der Fabrik Volkswagen in Puebla, Mexiko aufgebaut. Sie nehmen stolz in der Arbeit, die sie erledigen und arbeiten stark, um ein hohe Qualitätsautogleichgestelltes zu erstellen oder als jedes mögliches Volkswagen zu verbessern, das überall in der welt aufgebaut wird.

 

[DeafBug]

Having my NB for two weeks now, I have not driven my wife's Camry until a couple days ago. On the same road where there is a slight incline at the stop sign with some snow. I normally make a right turn there. Watching the oncoming traffic as usual, I step on the pedal and the Camry was spinning the front wheels. I was like, "God, I can do the same with my car and the wheels won't spin." It is a small incline and it spins!

I told my wife, I am through with gassers!

 

[shirish_bh]

hi think diesel,
I firmly believe in the braking ability of a diesel engine. I dont think its a myth.
Is there a discussion on this site that has dealt with this issue before?
If someone finds it can they post a link?

Thanks

 

[SADNYER]

Deisel powered vehicles get better traction in the snow. I've heard everything now!

 

[think diesel]

Diesel powered vehicles don't get any better traction in the snow than anything else. They are just a little easier to drive slowly in a higher gear without "lugging" If you know how to drive in snow--- that makes it easier to drive without spinning your tires as much.

Diesel do have some engine braking-- but it is somewhat less than what you get with a gasoline car. It has something to do with the lack of a throttle plate or vacuum or something like that. Somebdy else can explain it better than I-- but I am 99% certain of this.

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1999 New Jetta GL TDI
Atlantic Blue/Gray studio

Mein auto wurde von den stolzen arbeitern der Fabrik Volkswagen in Puebla, Mexiko aufgebaut. Sie nehmen stolz in der Arbeit, die sie erledigen und arbeiten stark, um ein hohe Qualitätsautogleichgestelltes zu erstellen oder als jedes mögliches Volkswagen zu verbessern, das überall in der welt aufgebaut wird.

 

[FL60cummins]

WEIGHT helps traction, WHY NOT??

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Gas burners are for wimps!!!!!
Protect our constitution from liberal lawmakers!!!

 

[Craig]

DC'S TD, how does the belly pad hold up against frozen chunks? It doesn't. The first one you hit will probably crack it someplace. The first time my auto-mechanic son looked at the OEM setup he said to get a steel skid plate. Someone needs to market one.

I don't know how you guys do it in foot-deep snow. Traction is not the problem, ground clearance is. My pan must be 4" off the ground. So driving on roads that are track bare, but have 6" of crud in the middle makes me paranoid. I can hear the stuff hitting the pan. In fluffy foot-deep snow the pan probably matts it down after the lower grill intakes scoop it up. On harder packed stuff, it will either break the pan or it will force the car up over which means you will loose traction from loss of wheel contact. Overall a poor design for winter driving.

 

[GeWilli]

I think the TDI Golf is the best in the snow.

I drive 150 miles a day and well it is up and down US27. I couldn't get stuck. COULD NOT get stuck. The only cars that were getting out were the tall 4x4s with a good driver and ME!!! I had more problems with people who were stuck.

Last year I had the michelin MXV4s (OEM) and the car was okay in the snow. Now with teh Nokian NRWs the thing is a fricken snowmobile.

Last year if the snow was more than 3-4" deep I was stuck. This year I have been able to plow through 12"-15" deep stuff w/o a problem. One moron go stuck infront of me and I had to stop in the stuff. I couldn't go forward cause he was blocking the way. I had to back up through the tracks. I got momentarily stuck and then calmed down (what the hell was the idiot trying to do driving a bald tired Rear wheel drive car in the snow anyway) I backed right up and went on my way.

This car is amazing in the snow with these NRW tires on. I can't imagine it being much better except for the slick ice situations (that is when i would want the Q).

 

[GeWilli]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SADNYER:

Deisel powered vehicles get better traction in the snow. I've heard everything now!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is a combination of lots of things.

VWs in general are THE best snow cars made for some reason. The Volvos and Saabs are almost tied.

Tires - traction and skill make up the rest.

The Diesel is nice cause there is LESS engine braking than a Gasser. The weight isn't an issue it is the design of the car 100%.

But that said- I'll say it again - TIRES TIRES TIRES. You think these things handle well with all season tires? Put some real snows on there and be prepared to pass everything (I was coming home).

 

[SADNYER]

GeWilli, I concur. My Hakka Q's are amazing. A little skill and experience doesn't hurt either.

 

[Max Torque]

I once got into a loss of steering situation in my 86 Golf Diesel. Coming out of a tunnel at 60 mph in fifth gear, I saw the brakelights of the cars ahead. I did not know the road had become icy. A light touch on the brake pedal was all it took to completely stop rotation of the front wheels AND the engine. I was skating on rubber at 60 mph! No Steering. There was not enough traction to turn the engine over and it remained stalled. When I realized what was happening I shifted into neutral. This got the wheels rolling and restored steering, but I had to crank the engine to get it running again. I think the same could happen to the present day diesels with standard transmission. I shouldn’t happen with automatics because they freewheel after a brake application.

Max

 

[shirish_bh]

Forgot to add one thing.
The hatchback design og the Golf prevents snow accumulation on the rear windscreen!

 

[vwnut84]

Ok, to set the record straight. Over the summer I had an '85 diesel Jetta and an '88 gas Jetta

Between driving the two cars, the gas Jetta had a lot more engine braking power then the diesel did. Granted the diesel has some, it is not nearly as much.

I think it is the vaccum in the intake manifold as mentioned earlier. That is also why diesels need vaccum pumps for the brakes and other stuff that needs vaccum

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Chris - "There is a fine line between genius and insanity. I erased that line"
1985 diesel Jetta 315,000miles
1981 diesel Jetta Just brought out of hibernation after 3 years - 137,000miles and $150

Real Volkswagens don't have power anything...

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks Craig,We just got a batch of snow today and the chunks where everywhere but just big soft ones and you could hear them whacking the hell out of the belly pan.I hate to see what they will do when they freeze hard.Not that cold here yet!On the subject about vacuum,there are no throttle plates so no vacuum.Thats why that little pump is there.I have a diesel tractor at home,cool little bugger,no turbo

air goes in filter straight to manifold and right to the head.Throttle linkage hooks right to injector pump.Same goes for my brothers old ford diesel truck,you take off the air cleaner and it looks like a headless engine,as in no carb just a big old hole sucking air!

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2000 JETTA TDI GLS 5speed

 

[VeeDubTDI]

It just occured to me that one could take the intake manifold off of a diesel car and it would still run. That's pretty freaky.

Not that I would recommend doing so, but it's possible.

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2000 Yellow New Beetle 1.9 TDI 5-speed
1987 Diamond Blue Mercedes-Benz 190D 2.5 Turbo (sold, but considering re-purchase)

 

[OffTheFence]

Looks like it's me and Craig as the lone voices of dissent...here in Chicago, we got hit with about a foot of snow a couple days ago, then another few inches today. My Jetta got stuck a couple times in the ruts in the alley leading to the garage. My other car, a '97 Tracer (Escort clone), struggled through.

Can't say the Jetta's snow traction is woefully inadequate, but it's just about the same if not a bit worse than other front-wheel drive economy cars I've owned. Certainly don't see anything worthy of praise.

Anthony

 

[garrettp]

i went through another CHicago snow storm today and when there where no cars in front of me and a foot of snow in my lane man did i leave some tracks

this car is just freakin great in the snow. i musta looked like... ummm... like... someone that was zipping around in deep snow or something

for getting going just shift the thing fast. to get away at a light or when stopped or going real slow, i shift at 1500rpms till i hit 4th and hten mash it and the thing connects and FLLIIIEEEESSSSS

the one problem is that i measured my car the other day from the ground to the wheel well and it was over a 1/4" LOWER FROM THE WEIGHT OF THE SNOW

it is great in the stuff though

garrett P.

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2000 JEDI TDI Silver
Full Commander, Prime Minister of Power and all that is good
assistant to President Valois in the UPsolute territory

 

[Brat]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Secret Squirrel:
Just ease off of the clutch and let Mr. ECU do the throttling for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OTOH, Mr. ECU is sometimes surprising when he goes into "keep alive" mode; I was approaching an entrance with lots of snow on Tuesday when I let the revs fall too low because of the all the other stuff I was thinking of, when said party decided to step on it for me...



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Green/Beige Y2K Jetta TDI
Wende dich ans Übele: Fahre Diesel!

 

[POM]

Craig, DC,

No, the belly pan doesn't hold up to the chunks of ice on the road. I hit one last month (didn't look that big--but it apparently was quite solid). There's now a crack in the center of the belly pan. I'm not going to do anything about it, assuming I'll just hit more throughout the winter. Not sure I can do much about avoiding them either--this one was in the middle of a snow drift with two tire tracks--would've had to create my own path through a long, deep drift, swerving around it at 35 mph (it was dark and buried in the middle of the snow, so I couldn't see it until just before I hit it). Oh well.

 

[jaydhall]

Do you think diesel engine has more braking due to the fact it is a manual tranny and you might be used to an automatic? Just curious. I can guarantee you manual gas will out engine brake our tdi manual.

 

[Golf Girl]

Garrett, you make me laugh...

Chicago snowstorm... well, I can say the TDI is good in the snow, except for the low ground clearance. When I drive in the stuff, I can hear all the snow under the car! And I was stuck in my wonderful Chicago alley twice already -- snow on top of ice.

I wish I had a TDI 4-motion...

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Jenni
2000 Golf GLS TDI, Putt Putt, my little sleeper
debadged, 2001 crystal clear side indicators, GTI tails, Upsolute chip, K&N, descreened... coming soon tint

 

[VeeDubTDI]

[Homer Simpson drooling sound]Oooooooohhoooooohohohoh, TDI 4-Motion! Aaaahhhahhaaahaaaaaa [/Homer Simpson drooling sound]

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2000 Yellow New Beetle 1.9 TDI 5-speed
1987 Diamond Blue Mercedes-Benz 190D 2.5 Turbo (sold, but considering re-purchase)

 

[Craig]

Saw a thread on Vortex stating that some of the 1.8T are now coming with a metal skid plate to protect the pan (http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum4/HTML/018417.html). Apparently, even though the 1.8T and VR6 have no plastic cover, the oil pan sits real low and is vulnerable to smashing. Seems VW has a chronic problem with all their cars. I reported a horror story almost a year ago about this (http://forums.tdiclub.com/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/001561.html).

I’m never going to survive this winter without smashing my cover again. It is not only the cover, but the sections that mount the cover can break meaning you have to replace two expensive parts.

What I want is a 3” x 3/8” steel bar in front of the cover to protect everything.

On the plus side, 3rd gear is fantastic and my favorite gear in the snow. I can’t believe how fast you can accelerate on slippery roads from idle to 2000 rpm without wheel spin. Most cars get the jump on me in first because of wheelspin. Second you still have to feather it carefully, but when into third I just shoot past them. Key is keeping the revs under 2K.

 

[T5TDI]

I originally came to this site to fill in the many gaps in my knowledge about diesel engines.

I'm really a "closet" diesel lover, in fact if I'm honest I'm not a diesel lover at all. I've spent the last 28 years hating the things! (Noisey, smelly and smokey) But the TDI is different. Mine is both sophisticated and smooth. Bit like a gasser really

You could say that I've been seduced by the dark sooty side...

Wind back to Shirish's point about engine braking on a diesel for a moment. I've driven quite a few diesels but I've never noticed any lack of engine braking. I've never really questioned it but I always assumed that engine braking was directly related to compression. If I stall mine it stops dead, worse than a gasser. If you try to push start a diesel you'll find it harder too.

I read mickey's explanation in another thread and was kind of convinced, except for the part about intake restriction in a gasser being responsible for engine braking.

I know it goes against the received wisdom but I just haven't seen a lack of engine braking in any diesel engine. Auto transmission is the real killer of engine braking to me.

It seems I have a bit more to learn!