TDI in a Toyota pickup

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
TDI in a Toyota pickup - now with pics

Hello everyone!
I am starting a motor swap for a 1991 Toyota 4wd truck. The donor's engine was a 3VZ with a blown head gasket & an automatic tranny.
So far I have collected these parts:
Toyota R-151F tranny & transfer case to withstand the extra diesel torque
VW 1.9 L 1Z TDI motor from a 1996 Passat
Motor-Tranny adapter kit from ACME adapters
So far, the only thing I have had difficulty obtaining is the ECU. I did find a list of ECU numbers:
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?p=214167
There are quite a few ECU's for 1Z engines, many being Audi 80's or Golfs, for example.
Would these ECU's work for just the engine, even if they came from a different vehicle?
 
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e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
About transmission & ECU

Hello Spulen!
The engine was delivered today. I will need some accessories, and there are a few little broken/missing parts.
The tranmission and transfer case are from a Turbo (22RTE) . The output to the transfer case has more splines (23) than the standard W56, so the transfer case & transmission need to match.
Here's a good link for that info:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/
I have found some ECU's in Germany. One is from a Passat, the other from a Golf, both for 1Z engines.
Would either work? :confused:
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
The stock ECU for the '96 Passat ended in a BK designation but was kind of a peice of crap. It has tuning limitations and you'll have to cheat it if you don't want the cat sensors and whatnot. The GQ ECU is the TSB replacement and is MSA15.5 management rather than the primitive MSA12 of the BK. There are some differences but an AHU ECU (EB, JB IIRC) should also do the trick with some revisions to the wiring.
 

e*clipse

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Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
More about Motorsteuergeräte

Hello Vwmikel,
Thanks for the warning. I would like the ability to add a chip in the future.
My search on MSA 15.5 yielded this link, which showed VAG#'s, Bosch #'s and whether the ECU - "Motorsteuergeräte" - was MSA12 or MSA15.5:
http://www.aet-tendahl.de/motorsteuergeraete/motorsteuergeraete-volkswagen.php
So far I have found these ECU's for sale:
In Germany:
028 906 031 GG - From a Golf 3 - ? GG matches, number doesn't-MSA15.5
028 906 021 AF - Also from a Golf 3 MSA12
028906021DD - From a Passat - MSA12
In UK:
028 906 021 BF - From a 1995 Golf 3 ? can't find a match - likely MSA12.
In US: didley/squat :(
How are the ecu numbers assigned? Do the letters mean anything? Does anyone have better lists/info on this?
Also, I will be making my own harness :eek: , so I suppose the wiring differences could be built into the harness. Pinout info, anyone?? I did find the connections necessary for a 1Z motor.
Thanks again for all your help!
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
If I were you I'd just try to find a US MSA15.5 ECU like would've come in a '98 Jetta. Those European ECU's have immobilizers which will become another hurdle for you. There's just not much point in importing one when we already have them here and they're less troublesome to use in swaps.
 

Spulen81

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Location
Warners, NY
I'm pretty sure you can get and adpater to keep your stock gear t-cases if you wanted to ditch the chain drive.

If you are going to make your own harness you might want to check into what the chip tuners can do. You can delete the EGR wiring for example, even the MAF if you wanted to. I don't think it will be that bad making a harness. I had to run about ten wires total on mine because of bad connections or chopped off connectors.
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
:eek: Wooo!
Thanks for the warning on the immobilizers. That's definitely something I don't want to deal with.
Sounds like the harness shouldn't be a big deal, thanks for the encouragement. :cool: I was basically planning on using the Yota harness & splicing in the necessary plugs, etc.
Regarding the transmission: The R-151F already uses a gear-driven transfer case. :)
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
progress pics

I'm going to try to keep this thread up to date with progress pictures.
Hopefully this will help or inspire someone in the future. :p
I'll add some "lessons learned" comments as well. Please feel free to comment on anything that could be done better.

There are more pics in my Gallery, "TDI Yota"

Parts were removed from both sides of the engine compartment:



The radiators, bumpers, lights, and fan were removed:


The power steering pump and starter were disconnected and pulled aside:


Motor being lifted out. At this point, the transmission was still attached. The motor had to be pulled forward to access the two top bellhousing bolts.


TDI 1Z motor as it came on the pallet.
 

e*clipse

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May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
After a late night's work, I pulled the engine. The next day, I dropped the tranny out the bottom.:D

Here are the old parts: Cores anyone? :rolleyes:


A shot of the Yota engine mount. I'm going to pressure wash the engine compartment & bottom of the truck. I think the previous owner's maintenance shedule was to lob oil containers at the engine, then go drive in the mud. :rolleyes:

I'm looking into the possibility of using the stock mounts by fabbing the adapters to the TDI motor.
 

Mtnkid85

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
looking good, im looking for a TDI to swap into my 85 4runner, Ill keep an eye on your progress.
What are your plans for the motor accessories? Altenator, AC?, powersteering pump ect ect. Are you using all the VW stuff or toy stuff? Does the TDI have serpatine belts or Vs?

Peace
 

e*clipse

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Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
I was just looking into that in detail.
My 1996 1Z TDI has a V-belt for the water pump and a serpentine belt for the other accessories.
My toyota has the power steering pump on the passenger side, controller unit (seperate) also on the passenger side, then hard lines running over to the steering box on the driver's side.
The power steering pump would have to be mounted on the driver's side with my 1Z TDI motor, requiring even more hoses & complications. The result would be a very kludgy system. :(
I think Spulen81's idea of using the VW accessories is best. The hose routing is simple, and one can use the stock brackets.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=158587
Regarding AC: most likely deleting.
Regarding Alternator: My V6 had a brand new alternator on it, but the pulley is different than the VW pulley. May be easier to use the VW unless I can find Toyota a serpentine belt that is the perfect length. :rolleyes:
 

Spulen81

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Location
Warners, NY
Just fyi on the water pump pulley, you can use the factory non AC water pump pulley which is a serp pulley instead of a V-belt. You just need a different belt and the pulley and that is it. The PS still runs off the v belt.
 

e*clipse

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Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Thanks!

Thanks for the tip, Spulen81! :) I was wondering how that worked, since most PS pumps I've found for pre 1999 VW's had v-belt pulleys.
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Here is the ACME kit, in case any of you were wondering what you get with the kit. It includes the adapter plate, ring washer, fasteners, and a Toyota flywheel machined to fit a VW engine.

One slight problem for my intake routing is the 1Z's intake manifold:

It faces backward. :( Anyone have suggestions? I would like a much cleaner routing than some U-pipe. Are there intake manifolds from other models that would work? ;)
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
e*clipse said:
One slight problem for my intake routing is the 1Z's intake manifold:

It faces backward. :( Anyone have suggestions? I would like a much cleaner routing than some U-pipe. Are there intake manifolds from other models that would work? ;)
I had the same problem with my corrado swap. I had an ALH manifold (can be bought for $80) that faced the opposite direction of yours. I had it cut and rewelded to face the other direction. If you use an ALH manifold you can then eliminate the EGR with a MK4 race pipe;)

here is my manifold:
 

e*clipse

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May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
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Toyota TDI swap
hmmmm....

Thanks for the tips, everyone! :D
Yes, the EGR will be deleted. That sounds like a great way to avoid future problems. I think I have to show it to the smog ref. with all the stock stuff that came on it. After the initial "yup, it's a diesel" approval, then I can do what I want because it won't be looked at again. (Kalifornia smog rulz)
It sounds like VW might have used a common intake (and perhaps exhaust) flange geometry for later year TDI's.
This makes me wonder if one could use manifolds (intakes or exhaust) from the 2L TDI's or even the gassers. :rolleyes:
The intake manifold looks pretty restrictive, even if it's clean. :p
If I could be completely greedy, my ideal intake manifold would simply collect straight out of the head, rather than going up. This would allow more underhood clearance, better flow, and better intercooler pipe routing. :cool:
The exhaust is a similar problem. With a different exhaust geometry, I might be able to avoid the tight clearance with the starter, and use a better turbo (future stuff).
Has anyone played around with this?
 

RoundHouse

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May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
Here are the old parts: Cores anyone?

Part em out on Yotatech.com or pirate4x4.com, and the parts will sell quick.
 

e*clipse

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Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Part em out on Yotatech.com or pirate4x4.com, and the parts will sell quick.
I'm getting a pressure washer in the next couple of days to make everything look pretty, including the pulled parts.
I was surprised to find out the rock crawler guys actually LIKE auto trannies.:p
Not sure about the engine. It's a 3VZ with a blown head gasket. I've heard they aren't the most desirable.:(
 

e*clipse

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May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
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Toyota TDI swap
props for great threads!

I've been doing some research, and found some good answers to my intake question.
First, HUGE props to G60ing! That is one beautiful conversion. Nice work! :D
While looking through his build, I found his pic of a PD150 intake. :cool:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2303271
Then, the "mythbusters" thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=165423&highlight=intake+manifold
Incredible work, IBW and all those that are participating! Dyno tests for all the mods, including exhausts, intakes, and different turbo sizes. Highly recommended for anyone considering these mods or doing a swap.
Since I have to build pretty much everything, I may as well build it right. It will take no more effort to build a big flow system than a stock sized system. ;)
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
First let me say thanks.

The PD is very nice and all but in my opion I would first recomend that you use an ALH with the EGR for the emissions refferee. Then once its been blessed I would sell the alh intake and misc parts and get a PD. The reason being is that you have a lot of obsticals other then the manifold to overcome and it would suck to buy an overprice manifold and then have something come up that causes the project to be sold.

Buy the alh for $75-$90 and you should be able sell it for $75-$90 after you have cleaned it

BTW I have my PD manifold now, I just have to finish the race pripe for it. I went cheap to get her running. Now that she have proven herself its worth dumping the money into. check out www.ebay.co.uk for good deals.
 

storx

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Jan 16, 2006
Location
Earth!!
TDI
2009 Jetta CR140, 2010 Corvette Z06
Good stuff.. I was wanting to do a swap just like this in the next year or so.. But i was wanting to try an swap in an PD VW engine possably an PD150
 

RoundHouse

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May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
e*clipse said:
I'm getting a pressure washer in the next couple of days to make everything look pretty, including the pulled parts.
I was surprised to find out the rock crawler guys actually LIKE auto trannies.:p
Not sure about the engine. It's a 3VZ with a blown head gasket. I've heard they aren't the most desirable.:(
Of course its got a blown HG.
Every 3VZ built has one.
So does mine.

Nice truck too, sunroof, leather, power everything.
And if, with a $1,500 engine and ~$1,500 in adapters/parts, it could get 25-28 mpg city and 32-35 hwy, it would be the perfect 4wd SUV.
Way better than my 11.5 mpg Yukon.

The small parts on the engine are in demand, not the engine itself. Although you get a few bucks for the block too.
The EGR and emission junk, and the heads, if not cracked/warped, will sell quick.
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
RoundHouse said:
The EGR and emission junk, and the heads, if not cracked/warped, will sell quick.
Thanks for the suggestion.... I almost tossed the emmisions junk!:p
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
"clean diesel"

I like to have my engines/engine bays clean, so I can see any problem as soon as possible. This truck had chunks of oil and mud so thick you could barely tell what certain parts were.
So, I got my hands on 2500 PSI of pure power! :cool:

Results were great! The pressure washer I borrowed could pump a soap solution as well. I used simple green, but I think something more "industrial" would have worked better.


The engine and transmission also got "the treatment."





It's amazing how oil can turn into a glue. That tranny had some tough buildup on it!
I also got a few other things: The old engine and tranny, cars, cats...(kidding):rolleyes:
 
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e*clipse

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Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Besides the physical stuff, I've also been acquiring necessary parts.

I finally found an ECU - in the US! It's off a 1999 Jetta TDI. I've also been talking to Jeff at http://www.rocketchip.com/. He's been a HUGE help regarding which ECU's will work for this project. This will get a stage 2/3 switchable upgrade for better torque output.:cool:

Before I found the US ECU, I was trying to get one from Germany. Jeff can disable the immobilizer; the only real hangup was getting money to the seller. (I have spent over a week e-mailing in German) to work that out.:mad:

I also had a great day at the local pick n' pull! I got all the VW accessories (water pump, alternator, power steering pump, etc). I was also able to get a pedal cluster from a 4-runner (I need a clutch pedal). For motor mounts, I'm trying Spulen81's idea of BMW mounts. I found some great *steel* ones off a '80's 520. :D

It looks like the gas and diesel VW's had very similar wiring. I'm going to see about getting all the connectors for my FrankenHarness at the pick 'n pull.
 
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e*clipse

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May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
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Toyota TDI swap
Started working on installing the ACME kit today.

My engine came without a transmission, so the TDC reference point was lost. I rotated the engine until the "0" point on the flywheel faced up, and I could put put a pin in the Injector pump's locator.

I then referenced this CAD drawing to find the dimensions for the motor centerline. After scribing the centerline, with the top mount holes as reference, I noticed that the "0" point on the flywheel was 1 tooth clockwise of the centerline. (Looking at the flywheel)

Is it normal for the "0" point not to line up with the motor centerline?:confused:

The pressure plate came off no problem, once I found external Torx sockets. The flywheel bolts were also NBD.

However, the flywheel would not budge once all the screws were removed. I tapped on it a few times with a hammer & some sacrificial aluminum. No luck. Rather than break something, I decided to look here for a solution.;)

It turns out that the flywheel can rust in place. My engine came out of a Chicago car, and it had a fair amount of rust on it. Here's the thread that discusses removing a VW flywheel.

After a lot of PB blaster and hammer work, the flywheel saw things my way. Pics coming tomorrow. :)
 
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