TDI Hybrid info article

[birkie]

If a hybrid TDI were to be offered with a manual transmission, I might be interested. A DSG doesn't count because (a) it is sequential and (b) no clutch pedal. This is just a personal preference based on my own driving enjoyment and preferred means of control. Such configuration would probably be a less fuel efficient than a mostly automated drivetrain.

 

[iboomalot]

Is the 3008 Hybrid4 a left hand drive??

If so can that be imported to the USA?

It should pass emmissions with flying colors.

 

[fastalan]

I stopped into a local Qwik Trip to tank up my wife's Subaru a couple of days ago. Get's about 30mpg, I can't get more than 14 gallons into it usually, and prices here in KC are still relatively low ($2.74 when I filled). I paid about $30 this time... manageable.

There was a lady in too much make-up from Kansas in a White Escalade with gold trim having a petulant frenzy about the total on her pump (about $70).

All I could think was, What does she expect? Her choice is the single most significant reason for high demand for fuel in America... using a massive V8 to propel one human and an oversized truck to and from the grocery store. If we dropped our demand in half, many problems would be solved, and the prices would be lower. In the long run, however, the status quo is utterly unsustainable. Perhaps the lady in the Escalade wants to be one of the last people to participate in the gross excess (which is coming to an end). That's just greed...and stupidity.

In fact, the simple fact is that even contractors can easily do with smaller work vehicles. Not everyone needs to show up at the construction site in a vehicle that could tow the entire house down the street. Slight exaggeration, but a good trailer and a 100 HP is plenty enough power for almost any typical construction haul, unless you want to drag race at the same time.

There must be a point at which Americans finally realize that less is actually more. I wonder when and how it will happen? It IS inevitable. It will be forced as the value of the dollar on the international market slides. Are we doing anything about the money going abroad(not just for fuel) or the Nationall debt? NO. I say again, Inevitable.

The problem is if someone shows up for work in a 100hp car and a crappy trailer, he won't look as professional as the other guy driving up with a big F150 or a merc sprinter.

 

[bhtooefr]

We have these smaller trucks at work (4 cyl GMC Sonoma’s), and I can tell you, they get horrible mileage, about 20 mpg. They make short trips and don’t accumulate much overall mileage, but are used hard and worn out by 40K. The savings over a larger, better built truck is negligible.

The critical part is right in there - "better built truck."

A GMC Sonoma is essentially GM's 70s and 80s RWD midsize car components with a pickup body on it.

Go look at a Toyota Hilux in Europe. Speaking of which...

The "Tacoma" scaled pickup is sold with a nice 3.0 liter diesel elsewhere (used to be smaller) that is pretty efficient and still manages good torque for moving trailers and hauling materials and goods. It is also available in a flatbed with flipside options for farm and delivery use.

First off, you can also get a 2.5L, and the single-cab only has the 2.5L available.

Fun fact, though, with the Tacoma. The first-generation Tacoma used a Hilux cab, but a far lighter duty chassis. The second-generation has very little in common with a Hilux.

And, here's the kicker... a 3.0L Hilux is a "one tonne" pickup. And it's SMALLER than a Tacoma.

Oh, one last thing... there are ways to beat the chicken tax. Nissan made "tool cab" extended cabs that (barely) had a seat with seatbelts. Volkswagen, the intended victim of the chicken tax, bolted a 2x4 into the bed of single cab Transporters, and called it two additional seats. Subaru bolted plastic seats into the bed of the BRAT. Ford brings in passenger model Transit Connects, recycles the windows and rear seats, and welds in metal block-off panels, to make a US-spec cargo Transit Connect. Toyota used to bring in Trucks without beds, and bolted the beds on at the port.

Or, there's always what the Japanese companies actually do, now: build the trucks in the US, Canada, or Mexico. (Volkswagen did that for the Rabbit Truck, too.)

 

[Ralphy]

There was a lady in too much make-up from Kansas in a White Escalade with gold trim having a petulant frenzy about the total on her pump (about $70).

All I could think was, What does she expect? Her choice is the single most significant reason for high demand for fuel in America... using a massive V8 to propel one human and an oversized truck to and from the grocery store. If we dropped our demand in half, many problems would be solved, and the prices would be lower. In the long run, however, the status quo is utterly unsustainable. Perhaps the lady in the Escalade wants to be one of the last people to participate in the gross excess (which is coming to an end). That's just greed...and stupidity.

In fact, the simple fact is that even contractors can easily do with smaller work vehicles. Not everyone needs to show up at the construction site in a vehicle that could tow the entire house down the street. Slight exaggeration, but a good trailer and a 100 HP is plenty enough power for almost any typical construction haul, unless you want to drag race at the same time.

I agree with your comments Dub. What annoys me the most is that we see these big pickups everywhere outside the construction sites. Along with the Escalade type of transportation vehicules, they put other drivers at risk when we share the same road in smaller cars...

 

[rme]

Americans are shocked, shocked again at the pump as nationwide fuel prices edge up again this month (December 2010). The average nationwide change over the past 6 months is barely over 30 cents, but Americans seem OK with spending $45 for a tankfull. Oddly, it is when the F150/Escalade/Hummer/STS/Q7/Suburban/Yukon/Titan/etc costs $55-60 or more that they all of a sudden realize and complain that they really can't afford that. At least until prices ease off slightly. Darned ragheads (well, someone must be blamed for this injustice!)

Second from the last sentence in the article:

"Will VW bring the TDI Hybrid stateside? It's too early to tell, but if fuel prices continue to rise, the demand will certainly be there"

It is like the intellectually challenged man sitting on his porch with rain coming through a hole above his kitchen ceiling saying... "Can't fix it now, it's raining!" Later, when it stops raining, sez, "Why, yer more of a darn fool than I thought... It's not leaking now!"

My li'l JSW get's 37mpg, city driving, without trying. Maybe I am weird, but it seems to me it is still raining. I figure the Government will get blamed for the price of fuel. Ethanol diversion is only causing fuel and food price increase (and using too much water to produce, and making even more carbon dioxide during fermentation process). Gee, that's not working out either. For every barrel of oil we use, we import 5, and we do not own the oil reserves. Maybe if we give more money to the oil companies and bankers, and military, they'll fix it.

Why not put the blame where it should be----"DIRECTLY ON THE GOVT"-- and so as not to make this thread a political thrashing on those elected officials who poorly represent the people of the United States...I stop here...

 

[dubStrom]

Why not put the blame where it should be----"DIRECTLY ON THE GOVT"-- and so as not to make this thread a political thrashing on those elected officials who poorly represent the people of the United States...I stop here...

I will forever regret the ethnic slur. It was just badly stated sarcastic remark aimed at most people's lack of understanding of the real problem. The blame lays squarely on decades of excessive waste and dumb choices. It would be very different if we actually had the substantial oil reserves, especially if we went ahead and developed alternative power sources at the same time. But changes are upon us now, for many reasons. Let's just hope that those changes are graceful.

The government? NO. If you want to blame anyone for our lack of automotive choices in the automotive realm (the OP), never forget that the market drives what is offered. And the stakes are high for the auto manufacturers. If it won't sell enough to make a profit, don't expect to see it offered. Import duties and emissions requirements seem like easy targets (I certainly complain about them), but those are laws, not the government. There are also labor issues to consider. Maybe the laws are not that well written, or the end result suppresses the range of models available, but the motive is to keep workers in a job. VW is setting up Chattannoga operations to comply, with plans to produce a model that is perceived of being profitable. Westfalia (VW), and Long Beach (Toyota) are gone. We'll just have to hope that those that plan production models from existing manufacturers, both domestic and foreign owned domestic assembly plants plan to make what we really need. A few informed posts here describe why fuel prices are where they are, and where they are probably headed. Some commodities are finite, and getting more expensive to produce. Petroleum (crude oil) is on that list. The government, in fact, has done remarkable things to keep prices low here (at costs that are really beginning to be understood, perhaps). Ironically, those consistently low prices have been a major reason why we still see so many big cars for sale in North America.

The members of the US government are having a tough time getting along right now because of the citizens frustrations and lack of guidance, but the government is not to blame for what kind of car you can buy or the price of fuel (or food for that matter). That's more about market forces that depend on decisions made by consumers, like me and you.

 

[Dooglas]

The members of the US government are having a tough time getting along right now because of the citizens frustrations and lack of guidance, but the government is not to blame for what kind of car you can buy or the price of fuel (or food for that matter). That's more about market forces that depend on decisions made by consumers, like me and you.

Gee, a perceptive comment. Thank you. I hope several other posters read it.

 

[D_Bill]

My apologies - I don't mean to be disrespectful but I do have some issues with these points . . .

. . .
Import duties and emissions requirements seem like easy targets (I certainly complain about them), but those are laws, not the government.
<Edit - see #1 >
There are also labor issues to consider. Maybe the laws are not that well written, or the end result suppresses the range of models available, but the motive is to keep workers in a job.
< Edit #2 >
The government, in fact, has done remarkable things to keep prices low here (at costs that are really beginning to be understood, perhaps).
< Edit #3 >
Ironically, those consistently low prices have been a major reason why we still see so many big cars for sale in North America.
< Edit # 5 - see #4 before #5 >
. . .
but the government is not to blame for what kind of car you can buy or the price of fuel (or food for that matter).
< Edit # 4 >
. . .

#1 > Quote off a Google search of import taxes imposed by the US govt -
US Import tax (also known as an import duty or import tariff) is collected by US Customs on every import that comes into the US.

#2 > I'm not sure I understand this - we ( the US of A ) can take/buy raw materials from other countries - and then also take the jobs out of " their " factories so we can have jobs in our factories ? Didn't they call that isolationism or such ?

#3 > I'm confused - the govt does set prices - or - they don't set prices ? ( we are market driven or the govt sets the market - but how and for whom ? )

#4 > Under the hood of my tdi is a decal that states to the effect " this car meets the regulations of the US EPA and the state of California for a 2001 passenger car " - sounds to me like the govt sets the standard for cars that I can buy ???

#5> Yep I'll agree we have " low " prices for big ( read that wasteful cars ) but I want to know who benefits . If I follow the money ( ? ) the car mfgr's make more profit on bigger cars, the oil companies make more on the reduced mileage and the govt gets more in fuel taxes ( which they reinvest in hyways ? ) - but the good news is , I , John Q Public do get to pay the the bill


Bottom line - I would like to know who at the US EPA will give me ( and many others like me ) the permit to buy that diesel 3.0 liter Toyota pickup that gets 30mpg ?

What I'd really like would be a 1979 Sirocco with the 2.0L CRD engine, a/c, abs w/4 whl discs, airbags and a structural roll cage - figure with its low weight - even with air bags and a/c - I'd still get into the 70's for mpg ( low frontal area/overall slippery body and I'd stay outta the load pedal

Again - my apologies if my presentation was a bit sarcastic - I kinda went off on a bit of a rant .

 

[GoFaster]

It is more than just the EPA. It is also NHTSA, and for that matter, almost every other regulatory agency in the USA.

The trouble is "Not Invented Here". Standards that are acceptable for everywhere else in the world, are for some reason not acceptable for the USA. Nevermind that you can argue about which set of standards is "better" until the cows come home. There's zero evidence that cars built to current ECE/WVTA/EuroNCAP are any more or less safe than cars built to EPA/DOT/NHTSA in the real world.

And it's not just cars, either. US regulations are filled with things that are different from the rest of the world.

It isn't always a matter of building a vehicle that meets the more stringent of each standard. There are things in each set of standards that are directly in conflict with each other, making it impossible to make the same vehicle comply with all standards.

North American road signs differ from those used EVERYWHERE else in the world. Why not? "Not invented here"?

If you can coax US regulators to accept standards used everywhere else in the world then there is a hope of legally importing vehicles sold elsewhere - and the manufacturers would not have to build separate versions of each vehicle!

 

[roadhard1960]

Don't forget CARB regulations for one of the largest combustion engine markets in the US, and the states that follow CARB regulations. One state tells the other 50 states what engines they can have. sounds crazy and maybe I have my story wrong. But all this revolves around personal finance and choices. A family of 4 does not need a 3,500 sf house. A family of 4 earning $70,000 does not that house. Add cable, cell phones, big old vehicles and so on. If people were smart about their personal finances they might realize that a big house or car costs them every month and will make retirement a big problem assuming that they are overextended which many are.

 

[RKSTDI]

Bottom line - I would like to know who at the US EPA will give me ( and many others like me ) the permit to buy that diesel 3.0 liter Toyota pickup that gets 30mpg ?

I have a 2006 Tacoma 4WD TRD Off road with the 4L gasser (averaging 19.6 mpg over the last 3000 miles) and that truck with a 3L diesel is exactly what I would prefer. But it's not the EPA's fault that I can't buy a midsize truck with a diesel. If there was a market for it in America beyond a small number of us, Toyota would slap emissions controls on it and sell it here. Even if EPA relaxed their emissions requirements, it still wouldn't happen.

I think many of us on this forum are frustrated with the vehicle choices we have in America. But we are a small minority, and we are not representative of what Americans want in their vehicles. The market reflects what the vast majority of buyers want.

Look at VW sales figures for the Golf/GTI/R32. This is one of the best selling cars in Europe, but in America only 1754 of them were sold in November. The Passat has been such a slow seller it isn't offered anymore. Compare that to the big sellers in November
1) Ford F-150 -- 38,541
2) Chevy Silverado -- 25,619
3) Toyota Camry -- 20,737
4) Nissan Altima -- 18,372
5) Honda CR-V -- 18,263

How many F-150s and Silverados sold in Germany in November?

 

[D_Bill]

I have a 2006 Tacoma 4WD TRD Off road with the 4L gasser (averaging 19.6 mpg over the last 3000 miles) and that truck with a 3L diesel is exactly what I would prefer. But it's not the EPA's fault that I can't buy a midsize truck with a diesel. If there was a market for it in America beyond a small number of us, Toyota would slap emissions controls on it and sell it here. Even if EPA relaxed their emissions requirements, it still wouldn't happen.

. . .

How many F-150s and Silverados sold in Germany in November?

My point exactly -

F-150's and Silverado's in Germany - you'd have to have hit the bloody lottery to afford the fuel for our gas guzzlers .

I'll tell my Toyota dealer that it's OK to sell me that 3L diesel and I'll place the order . Done deal.

Oops - EPA says Toyota can't bring the vehicle here .

It is called a govt imposed barrier to commerce - the cost of entry is too high to make a business model that can support it . . .

 

[dubStrom]

Any country that has an organized government and military is expected to do something to protect it's markets, and import taxes are the typical response. In some places it is much worse than here. But you can buy the Amarok and the new Pikup (Mahindra) in Australia, where import taxes are known to be relatively high. One significant difference in Australia is that fuel prices are much higher. This is also true in ALL of Europe. NA has cheap big trucks and gasoline is still relatively cheap here.

My earlier comment that "those are laws, not the government" was meant to distinguish between elected officials and that monolithic thing people refer to as "the government". I always object to that kind of broad stroke criticism, since everyone benefits from all sorts of services that governments administer. The vast majority of us are not anarchists, and do appreciate the civilizing aspects of organized government. And most of the elected official are really trying to do the right thing. But I agree that regulatory agencies (which are not elected!) are causing some problems. These agencies are intransigent entities that seem unaffected by public will (or elections). The comment above about NHTSA is right on, and it is also true that manufacturers build to one standard for cost savings and quality control (those over-reaching CARB emissions standards).

On the other hand, the chicken tax is often cited as a reason for lack of variety foreign made pickups, and yet you can easily find Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi pickups in NA. And they are bigger than ever, because as just stated yet again in above posts, that's what Americans buy. It seems that the combination of CARB compliance (has EPA adopted those emissions standards?) and chicken tax just put the business model out of reach.

Ironically, the agencies that regulate financial transactions, insuring institutions, and banking policy were asleep at the switch in the last decade. That is the one regulatory agency that should have been enforcing their regulatory power. I think NHTSA can be dealt with by the automakers, but are we entirely powerless against the CARB standards and chicken tax barriers? CARB is not even a national agency, and yet it rules automakers. And good luck removing the chicken tax. Seems we are scroood. But, maybe Mahindra will burst through by Summertime. If they bring the Pikup (5MT, please), I will support their efforts by making the purchase... It is the only way to break the logjam.

 

[bhtooefr]

The Raider was discontinued after 2009, and it was a rebadged Dakota...

 

[RKSTDI]

My point exactly -

F-150's and Silverado's in Germany - you'd have to have hit the bloody lottery to afford the fuel for our gas guzzlers .

I'll tell my Toyota dealer that it's OK to sell me that 3L diesel and I'll place the order . Done deal.

Oops - EPA says Toyota can't bring the vehicle here .

It is called a govt imposed barrier to commerce - the cost of entry is too high to make a business model that can support it . . .

There are plenty of people in Germany with enough income to feed fuel guzzlers. Many are driving fuel guzzling BMWs, M-B, Audis, Ferraris, Porsches, etc.

US regulators cracked down on diesel emissions just a few years ago. Before then, the auto manufacturers could have brought many more diesels here -- but almost none of them did, and those that did (VW) brought only a limited selection of their diesels. The auto manufacturers aren't going to bring them here for you, me, and and the handful of others who wish to buy them. The market isn't big enough.

EPA isn't telling Toyota they can't put a 3L diesel in the Tacoma. Toyota has chosen not to do so. VW sells a 3L diesel in their Touareg in America. If Toyota thought the market was there, they would install a diesel in the Tacoma with an emissions system to make it legal just as VW did with the Touareg, and they'd market it in America. Toyota didn't do that BEFORE EPA cracked down on diesel emissions. Neither did almost any other auto manufacturer. Can't blame EPA for that. We don't have a wide variety of diesels to chose from in America because the vast majority of Americans don't want them.

 

[bhtooefr]

The problem is, the vast majority of Americans didn't want them in the 1980s.

By the time Americans did want them, the EPA said that they needed $5000+ of emissions equipment per engine, at which point it becomes very cost ineffective for a manufacturer to bring one in.

 

[ChippedNotBroken]

Seems like making a diesel hybrid would be considerably more complex than a gasser. I wonder about the smoothness of the electric-diesel transition, i.e. the second or two delay with the glow plug for start up, which would be lengthened considerably in sub-freezing temps. Also, if the engine is off for periods of time, that would take it longer to reach operating temps, which would decrease efficiency. I would think a mild hybrid, in which the electric motor just gives extra boost would be the way to go. If they get the bugs worked out it would be very cool (and expensive).

A diesel would need to be a plug-in electric Hybrid, with a range of about 20 (or so) miles on batteries to fully take advantage of a diesel. This would limit the amount of start/stops the diesel generator would need to cycle through. A little thoughtful programming and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be a simpler system than gasoline.

 

[thebigarniedog]

The reason for crude oil increases they cited yesterday was the colded than normal November and December driving up the fuel oil prices and the crude oil spot prices.

We may import more oil than we produce but do you really know where it comes from?



Canada, Nigeria, and Mexico are the top three. All of the middle east countries combined would still come in number 2 to Canada.

How could that be?? (colder than normal temps) Weren't people in Cancun last month protesting higher temps?

In Ohio, December was ten degrees colder then normal and after the east coast was hit with that global warming event (blizzard) it's easy to understand the scientific consensus that the earth is getting warmer .

 

[roadhard1960]

Did you not get the memo? It is now called global weather extremes. Really cold weather proves their point just as warmer than normal weather.

 

[ChippedNotBroken]

The blind guy holding the tail thinks it's a snake, the blind guy holding the trunk thinks it's a hose. the blind guy bumping into it's side thinks it's a wall. While they are all arguing about what the elephant is, it stomps them all to death.

 

[bhtooefr]

In Ohio, December was ten degrees colder then normal and after the east coast was hit with that global warming event (blizzard) it's easy to understand the scientific consensus that the earth is getting warmer .

Averages.

As I understand, the world average temperature is trending upwards, but in localized areas, it can be significantly lower or higher than the local average for that time period.

 

[BadMonKey]

In Ohio, December was ten degrees colder then normal and after the east coast was hit with that global warming event (blizzard) it's easy to understand the scientific consensus that the earth is getting warmer .

Are you being a scientist again Check the average yearly temperatures that are more meaningful than a single storm. Global warming also results in more extreme weather patterns if you read the articles which i doubt you do.

I was watering my yard last week here in Colorado as its been so dry i was worried about my trees. It rained the following day and its the end of December I've never in my life seen it rain here in December!

 

[RabbitGTI]

In Ohio, December was ten degrees colder then normal and after the east coast was hit with that global warming event (blizzard) it's easy to understand the scientific consensus that the earth is getting warmer .

The wet western US and cold central US is a direct result of the strongest La Nina in 50 years. The cold pool of ocean water in the eastern pacific causes slight shifts in planetary waves. Planetary waves become anchored and move slowly. They are responsible for seasonal variation from the mean because they guide low pressure systems. Ohio being cold has nothing to do with Global average temperatures. The weather at a single spot deviating from the mean also has nothing to do with climate change.

 

[schoolsout]

Some of y'all would be wise to read this relating to price of oil and where it is heading
You better start paying attention...I firmly believe we are about to enter a period of serious inflation our society is not ready to handle.

http://neithercorp.us/npress/2010/12/oil-juggernaut-unleashed/

<snip>
Since oil is widely traded in dollars, it is perhaps the commodity most sensitive to dollar inflation. If supply and demand (real or imagined) are not the acting players in the current oil climb, then we are left with only one other option; currency devaluation. As we have covered in past articles, commodities across the board are tearing towards historic highs, while global demand for goods continues to fall. Oil is no exception. Establishment economists in the U.S. and in most of Europe have avoided the dollar collapse issue like Lyme disease, but other nations around the world will not. OPEC has been expressing concerns over dollar weakness and openly suggesting dropping the dollar peg since 2007:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/11/18/opec.html
http://www.gata.org/node/5984
http://www.ameinfo.com/138821.html
In 2008, the U.S. government was fully aware of discussions by Arab nations to depeg from the dollar and move to a basket of currencies (think SDR’s), and even “greenlit” such decisions by suggesting we “did not necessarily need Gulf support for our currency”:
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/ditching-dollar-peg-boon-for-region-49383.html

 

[donDavide]

Averages.

As I understand, the world average temperature is trending upwards, but in localized areas, it can be significantly lower or higher than the local average for that time period.

Not over the last 10 years. It dorpped.

 

[donDavide]

The wet western US and cold central US is a direct result of the strongest La Nina in 50 years.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. In my local paper so guy was trying to explain the hot Summer and lack of rain on Global Warming. I think that was in September. He must have forgot about December, January and Feburary and how cold it was and the massive amount of snow.

 

[BadMonKey]

Not over the last 10 years. It dorpped.

Maybe in the fictional world of Fox News 2005 & 2009 where the hottest years on record.

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/

 

[thebigarniedog]

Maybe in the fictional world of Fox News 2005 & 2009 where the hottest years on record.

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/

I really don't know and probably don't care about your fascination with fox news. They must have hurt you in some fashion or their existence must be a problem of some kind with your ideological thought comfort zone? In any event, you seem to mention it frequently so they must be an important part of your life. Can we drop that now --- I personally don't watch fox news.

My point is that the weather has been very cold this December (and has been trending that way in Ohio since 1994 from my vantage point). Here is another "weather" event to be ignored apparently :

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_western_weather

I also agree that weather is a complex equation of various averages determined primarily by that great big yellowish ball of gas called our sun (if I were a scientist):

http://www.longrangeweather.com/ArticleArchives/LowSolarActivity.htm

I have no vested financial interest in global warming (which is the official name chosen by the ivory tower folks --- not by me) or at arriving at a political consensus on it's validity .

In any event, I drive a tdi to be part of the oil and green solution. Any diesel hybrid that pushes the mpg envelop and expands the range of offered vehicles is on my radar.

 

[El Dobro]

I thought global warming was officially renamed climate change.