TDI Cam Timing Adjustment (for rough idle) How-to (with pics)

Mach1

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Spicewood, Tx.
TDI
05.5 Jetta 5 spd, 06 Jetta DE DSG, 04 F250 6L, 2000 F250 7.3L
Dans..right..it wants to be at 0 degrees..straight up..

Now heres the kicker, I explained before...


YOU ARE ADJUSTING TWO VERY IMPORTANT parameters here in this adjustment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You are adjusting static ignition timing......OK???


You are also adjusting CAM to crank timing!!!!! Very Important!!!!!







BE very careful here as you could damage things here....

You can not adjust them seperately!!! so by adjusting static timing a good bit, you are also moving the cam timing a huge amount!!

You have been advised...Hope this helps:) :) :)

Oh yeah? if you are questioning if you should replace the bolts, look at it this way, if the bolts slip or break and that cam sprocket shifts--the valves will contact the pistons..turning your engine into a $10000 dollar lead weight...Be careful in there!!!
 
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TDI 4 RD

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Location
Hamilton, NY
TDI
2006 TDI Pkg 1
Just wanted to add my thanks to Hurst for posting this DIY. After I had my timing belt changed, the rough idle seemed to get worse. Did this fix, and the rough idle is gone. Took about 30 minutes the first time.
 

auditdiman

Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Location
uk
TDI
audi a3 2.0ltr tdi 54 plate
timing has been adjusted

i have
rpm -840 /min
ign. timing 0.0 btdc
idle stabilization 6.1cf
idle stabilization 0.5 cf

i still have shack when cold....
just wondering what the idle stabilization of 6.1 is ? is this ok of should in b lower ?
 

FrAN_oC

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Location
Spain
TDI
Skoda Octavia 1.9TDI
Hi! Im new at this forum, but i often read it.

First of all, sorry for my poor english. I am spanish.

I own a Skoda octavia 1.9tdi BXE engine. Its almost the same as your jettas.

I tried to adjust the timming belt. I got it at -2.4, so i moved it reverse clockwise (left). The car was running for about 200miles ok and the. value was 0.0. Suddenly the car didnt start, so i rolled back to stock position. Now it works great. Sensor keep showing 0.0cf until i pull down the throtle. Then the value is -6.9.

I think that the sensor is out of range... i also replaced it.

Now, my questions...

What side do i have to turn the cam to go from negative values to positive ones?

On golf mk iv you ha to turn it to left to delay it +, and clockwise to advance it -.

Tdi pd 105 have to be adjusted different?

Please, help me. Thanks in advance.

Rgds
 

TonyJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Tucson, Az
TDI
'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
FrAN_oC said:
Hi! Im new at this forum, but i often read it.

First of all, sorry for my poor english. I am spanish.
Welcome to Fred's!

Don't worry about english / spanish...we get to meet quite a few europeans on the 'club! Makes it interesting in a good way!

FrAN_oC said:
I own a Skoda octavia 1.9tdi BXE engine. Its almost the same as your jettas....
You later mention TDI PD...as long as it's a PD injector type, it's close enough!

FrAN_oC said:
I tried to adjust the timming belt. I got it at -2.4, so i moved it reverse clockwise (left). The car was running for about 200miles ok and the. value was 0.0. Suddenly the car didnt start, so i rolled back to stock position. Now it works great. Sensor keep showing 0.0cf until i pull down the throtle. Then the value is -6.9.
What were you trying to solve? Rough idle? Were the cam sprocket bolts tightened to spec?

FrAN_oC said:
I think that the sensor is out of range... i also replaced it.
It seems very rare that the cam sensor needs to be replaced.

FrAN_oC said:
Now, my questions...

What side do i have to turn the cam to go from negative values to positive ones?

On golf mk iv you ha to turn it to left to delay it +, and clockwise to advance it -.
I think you have it right...Clockwise (+) to advance the cam; CounterClockwise (-) to retard the cam.

Keep in mind that the engine computer program is different in Europe than in the states. Mostly because the emissions requirements are so different. This will have an impact on MANY engine parameters. One of which is the cam timing.

Other members may have more specific info for you.

Tony
 

FrAN_oC

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Location
Spain
TDI
Skoda Octavia 1.9TDI
TonyJetta said:
Welcome to Fred's!

Don't worry about english / spanish...we get to meet quite a few europeans on the 'club! Makes it interesting in a good way!



You later mention TDI PD...as long as it's a PD injector type, it's close enough!



What were you trying to solve? Rough idle? Were the cam sprocket bolts tightened to spec?



It seems very rare that the cam sensor needs to be replaced.



I think you have it right...Clockwise (+) to advance the cam; CounterClockwise (-) to retard the cam.

Keep in mind that the engine computer program is different in Europe than in the states. Mostly because the emissions requirements are so different. This will have an impact on MANY engine parameters. One of which is the cam timing.

Other members may have more specific info for you.

Tony
Thank you veru much!! I have just adjusted 1mm and i am at -1.5. Now i am on the right way!
Rgds
 

FrAN_oC

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Location
Spain
TDI
Skoda Octavia 1.9TDI
Thanks again! Without this post I was going mad!!!

Now its at 0.0º and varies to -0.5º under hard acceleration. Now my car Is alive again!!

The strange thing is that older PDs are different. I am used to old PDs, and I was going the wrong side. Now everything is fine, and I am happy that I didn't broke anything.

Good fuel consumption, lower temperatures (water, oil... and I suppose EGT), and black smoke is back again!! My car is chipped so it's smoky, :D :D

Thanks everyone who posted at this post. It really helped me!

RGDS from Spain!
 

hid3

Banned
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Lithuania, Vilnius
TDI
Golf V 1.9 TDI-PD 105 HP
Fran oC, go and adjust it until it reads +0.5 to 1.0. I'm also European and have set mine (BKC) to 1.0. Never had any issues.
 

zanzabar

Vendor
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Location
Petaluma, CA
TDI
2004 Jetta BEW 5spd (dual duty track car and daily driver beater)
jerry_m said:
Mine is 7.1 and I think this is OK.
A bit extreme, no? I'm at 3.9 and I feel like I should probably dial it back a smidge.
 

hid3

Banned
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Lithuania, Vilnius
TDI
Golf V 1.9 TDI-PD 105 HP
zanza, we were taliking about Block003, not Block004 which actually represents the cam timing. My Block004 (the real cam timing) is set at 1.0. I've read in UK forums that this is what should be set in the factory.
 

FrAN_oC

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Location
Spain
TDI
Skoda Octavia 1.9TDI
My car was chiptuned before the adjustment.

The engine performed 142 fly-wheel HP and 310Nm (torque) and it was at -2.0ºCF. After the adjustment to 0.0º, and with the same electronics, the result was 154 FW HP and 330Nm.

If I adjust it to +1.0º, would it perform better? My BXE engine is opposite as all PDs engines...

RGDS
 

hid3

Banned
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Lithuania, Vilnius
TDI
Golf V 1.9 TDI-PD 105 HP
I guess it's worth to try. I've read somewhere that 1.0 is what should have a TDI-PD out of factory. Unfortunately it isn't.

And your BXE isn't too different from other PD engines. It just has got a DPF (right?). Everything else is the same - even cylinder head!

BTW, your stock engine had 105 HP and 280 Nm, right? If you really want even more power, you can try to set the timing to 3.0 or so (the optimal range is 3.5-5.0 IIRC).
 

volks1

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Location
Toronto
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Another possible solution

Here's what i found:
I know of me and 2 other 2006 Jetta TDI owners with the same rough idle issue. It appears typically when the engine is warmed, usually right off the freeway. On mine it idled so roughly that I thought the engine was going to rip itself from a mount sometimes.

On a whim I replaced the MAF, a 5 minute job. $200 and the idle vibration is 90% gone. I'll chalk the remaining vibration up to wearing engine mounts and winter fuel.

The new MAF took a few days to adjust itself but seems to be the answer in this case. Weak MAFs are apparently quite common, not even throwing a CEL.
 

04tdiwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Location
Valley Center,KS
TDI
05 Golf GLS
I have been away for a while but came back to find this thread that interests me, I wonder if that is what is wrong with my car. It smokes white when started, heavily when cold like the timing is retarded. I did do a timing belt swap and had no problems. It does have a slight lope at idle and dies very easy when starting in 1st gear. I do have a vag com file, it's an excell file that I could email but don't know how to post on here. At idle with a cold engine I have a torsion value of -6.4 in group 4 that doesn't vary much regardless of throttle or rpm. The Injection start *BTDC reads around 5 at idle, the torsion value the one I am concerned with, right? This value seems to be off much more than most I have seen on here.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
block 4 field 4 is the one that should be near zero.

I like to keep it at zero to +0.5. It will be fairly constant with engine speed, maybe varying by 0.5.

If this field is -6.4 now, you will definitely tell the difference.

Dan
 

04tdiwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Location
Valley Center,KS
TDI
05 Golf GLS


That is what I am looking at, so I guess this will help me quite a bit? 6 degrees of timing doesn't seem like much but when dealing with cam timing I would guess its a big deal.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Yes, your cam to crank timing is further off than any I have checked.

And going from -3 to 0 made a big difference in starting and power, on one car.

And these are some sort of sensing units. I would not make the leap that they are degrees.

When you pull your cam center bolt forward, after loosening the three small bolts, you will only have to move the cam slightly, perhaps not as much as 3 degrees.

I would take a look at my timing belt tensioner, if I were you. Just to ensure that it has not come loose.

Dan
 

kstef

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Location
Sweet Valley, Pa
TDI
Jetta 2005.5 Black
DanG144 said:
Yes, your cam to crank timing is further off than any I have checked.

And going from -3 to 0 made a big difference in starting and power, on one car.

And these are some sort of sensing units. I would not make the leap that they are degrees.

When you pull your cam center bolt forward, after loosening the three small bolts, you will only have to move the cam slightly, perhaps not as much as 3 degrees.

I would take a look at my timing belt tensioner, if I were you. Just to ensure that it has not come loose.

Dan
Dan,
I installed a new cam two weeks ago.
When I reinstalled the timing belt I used the tools to pin the crank and the cam.
After, I got it together I used the Vagcom and the timing was at -2.4, so I then moved to 0.0
Since the I had a "Cam Sensor out of range" '- from memory...
The car was hard to start when cold, meaning it would idle at 850 for 3-5 seconds and then die. This would happen ~ 2-3 times.
Power didn't seem wonderful.

I them re-zeroed the crank and cam with the tools/pins. Reassembled and then checked with the Vagcom... (-2.4)
The car is running very well, but only gettign 38-39 mpg.

I did rotate the crank 2-3 times and rechecked crank and the cam with the tools, but fit with little effort.

Next it is to take the beast apart and redo the belt... again.

I did check the Tension a long time ago and it was 0.0
 

04tdiwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Location
Valley Center,KS
TDI
05 Golf GLS
DanG144 said:
Yes, your cam to crank timing is further off than any I have checked.

And going from -3 to 0 made a big difference in starting and power, on one car.

And these are some sort of sensing units. I would not make the leap that they are degrees.

When you pull your cam center bolt forward, after loosening the three small bolts, you will only have to move the cam slightly, perhaps not as much as 3 degrees.

I would take a look at my timing belt tensioner, if I were you. Just to ensure that it has not come loose.

Dan
Thanks for the replies Dan! This is my second winter of having my Tdi and frankly I was really debating whether I would ever touch a Tdi again after I get rid of this one. If this works though, I think it will restore faith in my VW!

For a little history I did my timing belt around 110k miles, I changed the original one out. I used all the pining tools and had no problems. It always starts within a second of cranking but has never really sounded like other tdi's do that I have heard. How would I check if the timing tensioner is loose? All I have done is put diesel in it and drive and oil changes of course for the last 50k miles and I have forgotten what it looks like under that timing cover! When I changed the timing belt it was the middle of summer and I bought the car in spring so I do not know if it started hard prior to the timing belt change in the winter.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Look up the instructions for changing the timing belt. Find the pictures of the tensioner when it is properly adjusted with the pointer in the window.

Then take a bright flashlight and a small mirror, pull off the top timing cover and find a view of the window.

The pointer should be close to the window.

The belt should also be tight.
 

nic_a_bod

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Location
sw wisconsin
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
DanG144 said:
Yes, your cam to crank timing is further off than any I have checked.

And going from -3 to 0 made a big difference in starting and power, on one car.

And these are some sort of sensing units. I would not make the leap that they are degrees.

Dan

Has anyone ever gotten carried away and used a dial gauge on the cam timing?
 

happirob

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Location
Delta, B.C., Canada
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
Timing off by a tooth?

We had some recent freezing conditions in Vancouver and my TDI was not happy! It took 7 tries one morning, to get her going! It was struggling to keep an idle. So I tried the cam adjustment and still I couldn't improve on this cold start problem. I have since purchased the Rosstech software and confirmed my suspicions...the timing is retarded by -7 degrees even when the cam is advanced all the way.

I have the locking tools now and had hoped that I wouldn't have to go in as far as I did earlier this year when I replaced the timing belt. After working on this last night I am beginning to think that there isn't an easy way to reposition the timing belt. I need to reindex, meaning I have to remove the belt and reinstall it.

Now the big question: to reindex the TB do I have to pull the engine support and all just like a TB replacement?
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
I can just speak about the BEW engine, as I installed my timing belt one tooth off and then re-installed the engine mount. In my case, to correct this, I was able to leave the engine mount alone and reposition the belt. You only have to remove the mount to physically get the old belt out and the new one in, since the belt threads around the mount. Since the belt is already on, the mount can be left alone.

You will have to remove the crankshaft pulley and all the stuff in front of it (serpentine belt, etc) and the timing belt covers. Then, lock the crankshaft and camshaft and loosen the tensioner and work the belt off and reposition it and follow the instructions to install it. I found it easiest to remove the three camshaft sprocket bolts and remove the sprocket and then install the timing belt on the crank, water pump, and accross the roller and then put the sprocket into the timing belt and then install the sprocket. I was able to get the spanner on the tensioner and see the adjustment window, no problem. The only thing I could not do with the engine mount installed was fit a torque wrench on the tensioner nut. I just used a combination wrench on that nut and got it good and tight, but not overly so.

--Nate
 
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happirob

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Location
Delta, B.C., Canada
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
Thanks for the reply Nate. This could be good news! I will try removing the cam sprocket as you suggested. I found the belt to be too tight to reinstall without undue pressure to get it over the teeth of the crank sprocket. I want to make sure that I do this properly this time!

-Rob
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
Rob, let me know how it goes. It is was so easy to remove the cam sprocket and slip the belt into it and install the pulley. I am not sure why the instructions do not state to do this.

The adjustment on the cam is now dead center, as before on my car. No pulling or forcing the belt was needed. Also, when I followed the original instructions (the rotate cam sprocket fully left in slotted holes), this caused the timing belt to be off a by a tooth and caused the problem in the first place, where the cam sprocket was rotated fully to the end of the adjustment slots while the cam and crank were locked.

--Nate
 

happirob

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Location
Delta, B.C., Canada
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
Yes!! All is good!! I did the majority of the work last night, once I got my daughter to bed. I removed the 3 cam sprocket bolts and used a longer bolt to maintain the position of the sprocket to the cam but still allow movement of the sprocket to install the belt. I then tensioned, torqued and removed the locks. I turned the crankshaft c/w two revs and reinstalled the locks...they went in like butter!
I ran the car this morning and checked the initial values by Vagcom. It was at +0.5-1.0 and I still had plenty advance left! I was elated!
I just got the advance locked at +4.4 and that's where it is staying.
Thanks again Nate for the quick reply; I was really close to doing the full pull and having an even busier Christmas. Now I can relax, a bit at least.
Merry Christmas! :)
-Rob
 
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