TDI Cam Timing Adjustment (for rough idle) How-to (with pics)

[nokivasara]

It's almost as if the euro vs US maps are offset by a few degrees. With mine set at 0 it was less powerful in the lower revs but had plenty of power higher up. I could have put money on that it was advanced, still the torsion value was 0.0
Well it was advanced compared to where it was at first (-3.9) but it felt too gutless down low to be a "neutral" setting.

The block 15.3 measurement is good but is it a real life number or does is follow the torsion value, ie lower fuel consumption at idle if the timing is retarded? Will that be the case in real life driving too?

This torsion value thing has become like a car wreck for me, I can't stop watching it

 

[nokivasara]

Negative torsion value is not something unseen on Euro PDs. I have seen plenty of them, and 80% of them have something negative in there.
I recall a VW Caddy van which had -4.4, the biggest negative I've ever seen.

Measuring block 15.3 is a good premature measure about your fuel economy. If you do mostly city driving and don't do any racing, I'd suggest finding a "sweet spot" where the momentary reading of consumption is 0.2-0.4 l/h. That will give you the best fuel economy in city.

I played aroung with the TV values today and between -3.45 and +2.5 the value in 15.3 never got down to those numbers. Mostly hovered at 0.8-0.6 during idling.
I set the TV to about -2.5KW and called it a day, better to not tighten and loosen those bolts too many times.
TV was -2.79 before I started and that yielded very good fuel economy, about 44-45mpg.
TV of 0.0 = 36mpg

It's pretty amazing that there is such a big change in FE since the actual movement of the cam is miniscule.

 

[Henrick]

One guy here in the forums reported than changing the TV dramatically changed his injector deviation readings in Group 013

 

[nokivasara]

I've been playing with the torsion value on both of our cars and the more I think about it the more confused I get.
My Skoda was at -3.9 the first time I checked, so I adjusted it to 0.0, having read just 1/3 of this thread at that time. Power was ok, but fuel economy took a big hit.
Right now I have it at -1.97, we'll see how that changes things.
The values in block 13 was pretty much identical @0.0 and right now @-1.97, also the l/hr numbers in block 15.3 are the same, 0.6l/hr.
With the TV set at 0.0 the onboard computer mileage was 100% accurate.
The Golf was at -2.79 and it got worsened fuel economy with TV set at -0.51
What I don't get is that how can european cars needs negative numbers for best power/economy when the US cars doesn't. Henrick found out that there are different hubs so that may explain some of it but it still seems strange that most european PD's hover at -2 to -4, why not have that adjusted with the software, if they have different hardware?

Ok, so I have had the TV at -1,97 on the Skoda for a few months now and I got pretty good fuel economy on my road trip recently so I think it's better than when I started.
But one thing that really is different is the lack of DMF noise! I was about to replace the DMF and clutch but now I'm not that sure anymore, let's see how it behaves in the summer when the temps rise. Interesting development

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

I replaced my clutch and flywheel with a valeo single mass setup about 6 months ago. My idle is smoother than it has ever been and I haven't had a single second with rough idle that has plagued my car for 11 years. The torsion value seemed to make it a lot better but it has never been perfect until now. Torsion value doesn't seem to have an effect anymore no matter where I have it set within spec it idles smooth as glass.

http://www.idparts.com/valeo-single-mass-flywheel-and-clutch-kit-a5-brm-p-1954.html

 

[nokivasara]

I replaced my clutch and flywheel with a valeo single mass setup about 6 months ago. My idle is smoother than it has ever been and I haven't had a single second with rough idle that has plagued my car for 11 years. The torsion value seemed to make it a lot better but it has never been perfect until now. Torsion value doesn't seem to have an effect anymore no matter where I have it set within spec it idles smooth as glass.

http://www.idparts.com/valeo-single-mass-flywheel-and-clutch-kit-a5-brm-p-1954.html

I would go that route too but I've read somewhere that the 1.9TDI with a 6-speed manual (that I have) can't be fitted with a solid flywheel.

 

[Henrick]

I would go that route too but I've read somewhere that the 1.9TDI with a 6-speed manual (that I have) can't be fitted with a solid flywheel.

BLS can. It uses 228 mm flywheel. Valeo kit number is 835035.

However...

SMF puts additional load on synchros. I have already gone once with SMF but not sure I'd do the same one more time.
If I would, I'd probably give Sachs kit a try

 

[nokivasara]

BLS can. It uses 228 mm flywheel. Valeo kit number is 835035.
However...
SMF puts additional load on synchros. I have already gone once with SMF but not sure I'd do the same one more time.
If I would, I'd probably give Sachs kit a try

Maybe it was something about the synchros, something about the gearbox made the 1.9/6MT combo a bad candidate for SMF conversion?
How bad is it on the box? The SMF kit is better for my budget

I think I'll wait until the DMF shows more clearly that it is time to replace it, seems like people that have replaced their still has some noise from it? Noise is all I have at the moment. I'll test the Sachs kit if the SMF is not recommended, unless it needs to be compressed prior to install, I don't have that tool.

Ontopic: What does the official VAG documents say about the TV? Is it stated that the value should be set at 0.0 after a TB change, regardless of engine code or location (euro/NA)?

 

[Henrick]

I had SMF setup on 1.9L/6MT. It was BKC and GQM box. I didn't experience any breakages of neither engine not gearbox during my ~60'000 km driving with SMF setup.

Noise was present at idle/hot engine. However, it was smooth in cabin, no vibrations. TV was set to 0.0 on mine.
However, towards the 60 thousand kms on the clutch, I _think_ that the clutch already had some wear on it. The shifting in/out of a gear was a bit rough, sometimes I heard some grinding when going into reverse.
Replaced clutch master & slave cylinders but that did nothing to the issue.

Sold the car because of excessive body rust. Also, I've invested a lot of money into the car during the ownership period.

Sachs also has got SMF conversion kit for these engines, however, I don't know the part number. Need to check with parts guy.

 

[Mivini]

Hi all,

I have a diskussion with a friend, and now i find myself i doubt.

I have en octavia 2005 with BKD engine, which have 2 camshafts. One for inlet, and one for outlet.

On a single cam engine like AWX, the way to adjust torsion value (VCDS group 4, value 4) , is to loosen the 3 bolts, move the cam a tiny bit, and then fasten the 3 bolts again, and then one have moved the timing from like -1.0 to 0.0. Job done.

BUT what to do when i have 2 camshafts, and want to do the same thing ? I was prev. told the procedure is exact. the same, and it is supposed to be done on the front (inlet) camshaft. Now i am being getting so many different informations. One is that it is the outlet camshaft that control the injectors, and therefore the outlet cam that should be adjusted to change torsion value. Another guy says, that it is only at the timing belt change moment, that it is possible to adjust torsion value.

Im totally confused - Does anyone have a guide on how to adjust timing on double camshaft engines ? Or can anyone explain the correct procedure ?

Thanks in advance

 

[alexf2828]

Ive advanced my cam timing about 2mm, still shakes a bit but interestingly it has cured the yellow emissions light that has been on for years!

 

[alexf2828]

Btw the cambelt was done using locking tools, how far in general (mm) have ppl had to advance timing?

 

[andreigbs]

Not sure using mm measurement is the optimal way to adjust torsion. You need VCDS to see the actual values.

 

[alexf2828]

update on this-I found the faulty injector by extending the wiring loom and disconnecting each cylinder in turn while running using a low wattage bulb in series to give the ECU some load-the brown/blue wire did not change the misfire at all but the other 3 wires all had a large effect making it worse-need to find which cylinder brown/blue wire feeds, electrically everything is good with the bulb in series flashing with the injector pulse