TDI Cam Timing Adjustment (for rough idle) How-to (with pics)

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Ice,
It would not hurt to try this adjustment; it could only help. I my own experience this might cause a .5 or 1 second longer starting crank, no more, and not rough operation. But rough operation has been reported here.

Check your timing belt tension, and log groups 13, 18, 23. Check your fuel pump operation as in post #7 in this PD fuel pump thread.

You might post any results from your timing change here, then start a new thread if you still have rough operation, and post the numbers you get in those groups above.
 

Ice2Cool

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Location
South Africa
TDI
Golf MKV 1.9TDI DSG
Hi Tony,

Thanks for the reply. The car is a PD engine is only about 2 years old with 31,000km on the clock.

I live in south africa and its very warm here - ambient temperature is about 30-35 degrees C (about 86-95 F).

When i say "starts rougher" it is taking about 0.5 seconds longer to start, and doesnt seem to start as cleanly as is was when it was new. This is especially true if I am driving hard for a while, then stop for a while (ie for lunch or something) and then when i try to start up again it takes a while and doesnt seem to "catch".

To be honest, even prior to the remap, the cars milage has not been as good as it should be even if i drive with a very light foot. I struggle to get below 8l/100km on city driving. On highway driving i get about 5-6.5l/100km which just seems very high to me. I use excellent ULSD diesel as well which south africa exports to europe so that isnt an issue either.
 

TonyJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Tucson, Az
TDI
'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
I would start a new thread in the A5 section. You'lll get more help there.

Have you changed the fuel filter or air filter? If not, you may want to start there.

Tony
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
Fuel and air filters are not due until 90,000 in Europe, according to owner's manual (check your and verify if it says the same!).

I would start with adjusting the cam timing and see if the things get better or worse.
 

tornadored7

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Location
GMTLand
TDI
Golf MK3
Hi speedfreek,
You need to put the mechanical cam-to-crank timing at TDC. Advancing your cam timing will smoke and kill your economy, and retarding it will give lumpy idle and poor performance too. Simply put the crank at TDC and pin the cam (by adjusting the cam pully w/3 bolts). You can see the mark/dimple on the crank pully, so simply line it up with the mark/indentation (at 12 oclock) on the cover.

You can also find the TDC mark on the flywheel, or for perfection, use the arrows on the crank holder and crank sprocket when changing the TB ;-) (edit. if you don't know what you are doing, get a mechanic to help you or you could bang valves into pistons)

It seems like many folks are just arbitrarly setting this with vagcom while engine is either cold, warm, or hot. It seems that many are screwing up their timing and I need to reset it on many cars I tune now :-( Check it cold or unplug 3 temp sensors and AC off, for correct reading (coolant inlet/exit, and fuel temp sensors).
Jeff

I followed Jeff's advice and set TDC (on a PD engine) by locking the crankshaft using the locking tool (with both arrows/marks lined up), and also pinned the camshaft.

I also noted a difference in crank sprocket angles between TDC using the cam locking tools (preferred), compared to using the cam pulley dimple/lower timing belt cover mark.

Before performing the cam/crank recalibration, the torsion fluctuated between {-1.7KW*, -2.2KW} measured on a warm engine. The VCDS torsion range is -3KW to 3KW.

Afterwards, the torsion had improved (a slight timing advance), but now the torsion fluctuated between {-0.6KW, -1.1KW, -1.7KW} (cold engine), and {-1.1KW, -1.7KW} (warm engine).

I was expecting the torsion to be 0KW or closer to this.
Have I misunderstood something, or is this due to other factors such as a stretched timing belt (about 2 years old) ?

Thanks

*KW: Kurbelwinkel (crank angle/advance)
 
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jdhunt0

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Location
KY
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Check it cold or unplug 3 temp sensors and AC off, for correct reading (coolant inlet/exit, and fuel temp sensors).
Jeff
Is this the best way to check or is the mechanical method better? I was told by my tuner to set the car at 1 deg. Can anyone post pictures of the three plugs mentioned above?
 

jdhunt0

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Location
KY
TDI
2005.5 Jetta


Is this the right value? I got -2.5 with a cold engine no load, with a load, hot with no load, and with a load.
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
Turn it to the directrion wheels spin abou 0.3 mm. You're still too retarded IMHO. I have also heard about the +1.0 value as 'recommended'. Cold or hot engine should vary reading no more than +-0.5
 

andreigbs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
Agree, looks retarded to me too. Bump it up to +0.5 or so. Then drive it and see if there's a noticeable difference. I think startup will improve too. Then keep a track of mileage over a few tanks of fuel.

Either way, I wouldn't leave it at -2.5 and it may take several tries to get it right but it's worth it, believe me.
 

jdhunt0

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Location
KY
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Made the adjustment today. I'll be driving about 600 miles of the next two days so I hope I can see a change.
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
After TB replacement mine was at -2.4. I adjusted it to +0.5 but I can't say I've noticed much difference, if any. Well, maybe I was driving too short (~100 miles) with wrong/not adjusted timing to notice something :D
 

nufsil

New member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
Portugal
TDI
VW Golf MKV
Hello all.
Can this procedure be done on PD 140 CV, with twin camshaft (16v)??
I 'd try this on my car car but i dont' know how :confused:

Wich cam should i advance ??? The 1st, the 2nd or both ??

Thanks in advance
 

Lew

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
SE Georgia
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI Sportswagen
I changed out the TB etc., on the wife 05 Beetle a few months ago .....Ran Vag Com this AM with the engine cold.......Torsion Value reading was 0.0 at 903 RPM........Can't get any better than that.........:)

Jeff if you see this when are you going back to Scott's in Jax FL?
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
I changed out the TB etc., on the wife 05 Beetle a few months ago .....Ran Vag Com this AM with the engine cold.......Torsion Value reading was 0.0 at 903 RPM........Can't get any better than that.........:)
Actually I think you need to take the Torsion reading with the engine at operating temp to get an accurate reading. I could be wrong on this.................
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
With cold engine it means it might be too big by value of 0.5. So if on cold engine you see it as +1.5 then on hot engine it might be just +1.0
 

TDI-Geek

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Location
Ohio
TDI
1.9 Jetta TDI
Question: My 2006 idles rough, I turn on a load, ac and it dissipates. Sound familiar? Anyway it is still under warranty for another month or so should I have them look at it? If I do it my self do I need a VagCom to do it?
 

Lew

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
SE Georgia
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI Sportswagen
Question: My 2006 idles rough, I turn on a load, ac and it dissipates. Sound familiar? Anyway it is still under warranty for another month or so should I have them look at it? If I do it my self do I need a VagCom to do it?
Has your ECU been tuned for better performance? If so stay away from a Dealer. They will reflash your ECU and you will loose the performance tune........

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=94
 
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ro.sniper

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Location
T.O. Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
So I have set my value to 0.5 from -1 (bad shake) but still get a very very slight shake that goes away if i press the rear defroster. I also notice that the shake happens if i brake out of gear until the engine passes 83 degrees Celsius :rolleyes:

From this thread I saw some people say set to 0 while other say the value should be between 2 - 5... which one is it?
 

ro.sniper

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Location
T.O. Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Thanks!! I'm gonna see the value tonight when the engine is cold. Another nudge should do it. I noticed that if it is set at 3 its really goes after 2000 rpm... almost causing a wheel spin even in second... it seems the torque curve moved up the rpm.
 

Hurst89

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2005.5 Pkg 0 5spd TDI
Thanks!! I'm gonna see the value tonight when the engine is cold. Another nudge should do it. I noticed that if it is set at 3 its really goes after 2000 rpm... almost causing a wheel spin even in second... it seems the torque curve moved up the rpm.
I noticed the same thing when I had mine set at +5, kind of doggy down low, but really pulled stronger until the fueling cuts down. The article I linked to suggests the timing should be adjusted with a fully warmed up engine idling. Originally it was said to test it cold. I am not sure what the difference in results would be, but maybe someone can chime in to clarify and solidify the method.

Hurst
 

narongc73

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
VA/OH
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
So my torsion after TB change was -4.4 hot. I drove it this way for a week and didn't notice any difference. Bought a VCDS and set it to -1.0 hot and economy and everything else appears to be unchanged after driving for 400 miles. I've no idea how you all can detect any change. I guess as long as it's within -3 and +3 it should run almost the same. Currently I don't see any advantages to changing it to 0.
 

darkhorse

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
'06 Golf GLS, '01 Dodge/Cummins
I just bumped my torque value from .5 to 4.9. It smoothed out a rough idle & seems to have cleared some smoke at WOT.
 
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