TDI Cam Timing Adjustment (for rough idle) How-to (with pics)

NL-TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Location
Ottawa-Kemptville
TDI
06 Jetta
A question for someone who has done this procedure:

When I re-tightened the 3 sprocket bolts, I was very nervous about breaking them, mostly because reading this thread I learned of someone else who broke them. So what I am wondering is how tight do the bolts get? To me it seemed like they were turning back in more then they turned coming out and I was scared to go too tight and twist off the bolt. I do have a torque wrench howeven not sure if I trust it. It is in in-pounds and NM. According to a online conversion 18 ft pounds is 24 NM but as I said the bolts seemed to be turning back a lot and not getting real tight. Any insight would be appreciated.

tks
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
You might buy new bolts if you are concerned.

These never had TTY bolts in them, but someone could have installed TTY bolts from an injection pump by mistake, though it seems a low probability event.

And try a different torque wrench.

I have never had any issue with using 18 ft/lb.

Watch your pulley to ensure it is running true. If you backed the bolts out too much it might have slipped out of place just a tad, and no longere be tight and square on the hub. Again, this does not seem too likely.
 

NL-TDI

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Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Location
Ottawa-Kemptville
TDI
06 Jetta
ok guys......did a lot of test driving today and the car purrs like a kitten!! never ran smoother, every time I stoped at a red light I was waiting for the roughness but it never came.!!!!!..........Went to Advanced Autowerk's in Ottawa and got Gord to check the timing with their computer. This guys are great....highly recommend them to anyone who needs help with there VW!!!!!! I Was quite happy to see a reading in block 4, value 4 of..1.4kw :) .....I think this is in the acceptable range and I'm quite happy with the way its running so I am going to leave it there. Not interested in fixing it till it's broke....LOL.....Thanks to everyone who posted on here with this great info...

Jon
 

zanzabar

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Oct 18, 2002
Location
Petaluma, CA
TDI
2004 Jetta BEW 5spd (dual duty track car and daily driver beater)
NL-TDI said:
ok guys......did a lot of test driving today and the car purrs like a kitten!! never ran smoother, every time I stoped at a red light I was waiting for the roughness but it never came.!!!!!..........Went to Advanced Autowerk's in Ottawa and got Gord to check the timing with their computer. This guys are great....highly recommend them to anyone who needs help with there VW!!!!!! I Was quite happy to see a reading in block 4, value 4 of..1.4kw :) .....I think this is in the acceptable range and I'm quite happy with the way its running so I am going to leave it there. Not interested in fixing it till it's broke....LOL.....Thanks to everyone who posted on here with this great info...

Jon
Lucky guy! Glad your 'intuition' on setting that cam was good. Still, this is in no way justification for doing this 'repair' blind like you did. In other words: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME! I think 1.4 should be fine, I have mine at 2.0 I think.
 

NL-TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Location
Ottawa-Kemptville
TDI
06 Jetta
Thanks...I think.....LOL.....sometimes you do the best you can with what you have and hope for the best...I won a free coffee today too so must be my lucky day!!
 

okie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2003
Location
Oklahoma City OK
TDI
2003 Jetta
Torsion Always shows 0.0

So I got a 06 BRM Jetta and checked the 4/4 value and it was 0.0. Cool, a week later I changed the timing belt and checked again, 0.0. I went 1,000 miles to let the belt strech and checked, 0.0. So I moved the CAM just a bit clockwise. It runs better, smoother, checked the 4/4 value and it's 0.0!

My first guess is the CAM position sensor G40 (or wires) are toast. Checked codes and found a G40 code set.

If the G40 is out will the torsion value always show 0.0?
 
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DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I am not positive, but I think if it is out of range, it reads 0.0. This is a terrible way to build it, but I think it works this way.

I know one person who went all the way to the end of the slot, and it read 0.0, and it ran like crap. When he got it closer to right then it started displaying realistic numbers.

I think it is showing the substitute number that the ECU is using - zero - when the sensor has failed.
 

okie

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Joined
Mar 19, 2003
Location
Oklahoma City OK
TDI
2003 Jetta
okie said:
So I got a 06 BRM Jetta and checked the 4/4 value and it was 0.0. Cool, a week later I changed the timing belt and checked again, 0.0. I went 1,000 miles to let the belt strech and checked, 0.0. So I moved the CAM just a bit clockwise. It runs better, smoother, checked the 4/4 value and it's 0.0!

My first guess is the CAM position sensor G40 (or wires) are toast. Checked codes and found a G40 code set.

If the G40 is out will the torsion value always show 0.0?
A little more info, went for a test drive (runs great BTW) and the torsion values never moved from 0.0 I did WOT under load, no load, everything I could and the torsion value never changed.
 

okie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2003
Location
Oklahoma City OK
TDI
2003 Jetta
MFD Changes??

Hurst89 said:
I have mine set at 4.9 hot idling. I also got my best mpg on a tank the other day since installing my new wheels (a year ago). I managed to get just under 45 mpg with about 80-85% highway travel going an actual 75ish mph. Before, the most I could get out of a trip like this would be just above 42 mpg, so a 2.5 mpg gain or more is what I have gotten on one tank, but I am not sure how good of data that is. I will know a little better this summer when I get to driving around some more on the open road. My MFD is really low now though, reading around 5 mpg low compared to the 1 or 2 mpg high it was reading. Has anyone found where the timing limits are in the Bentley manual?

Hurst
So, (I know this is an old quote) did the timing adjustment change the MFD readings or had you done something else to the car?
 

Hurst89

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2005.5 Pkg 0 5spd TDI
If I remember correctly, when I changed the timing, the fuel mileage indicated on the MFD also changed. I can't remember what caused it to read high or low (advancing or retarding), but I am pretty sure it changed the mpg figure. I think this is due to the way the computer measures fuel being injected, and a camshaft timing adjustment changes the profile of the cam the injector rocker is riding on at a given time in the engine's rotation.

Hurst
 

Mach1

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Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Spicewood, Tx.
TDI
05.5 Jetta 5 spd, 06 Jetta DE DSG, 04 F250 6L, 2000 F250 7.3L
Hurst, you are right, when the timing is adjusted, it effects the reading in the MPG...I noticied this as well...

Got mine set at 0.0...Remember this setting/adjustment accomplishes 2 things, changes the cam/crank relationship(cam timing), and the ignition timing... So not to change the relationship of the cam timing, I would recomend setting straight up at 0.0....
 

Dunno513

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Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Location
Mirror Lake, NH
TDI
2006 NB PD-TDI DSG
DanG144 said:
Besides, your timing sounds perfect as it presently is set. I think 0.0 to 0.5 is the best setting.
This is what mine is set to but I notice it flickers from 0.0 to 0.5 depending on power application. Just got done with a timing belt. Anyone else notice theirs changing while driving?

I suspect that I am right on the cusp in regards to the sensor position. It is 0.0 while under power and changes to 0.5 while coasting or idling.
 

DanG144

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Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Dunno513 said:
This is what mine is set to but I notice it flickers from 0.0 to 0.5 depending on power application. Just got done with a timing belt. Anyone else notice theirs changing while driving?

I suspect that I am right on the cusp in regards to the sensor position. It is 0.0 while under power and changes to 0.5 while coasting or idling.
This is normal.
 

sk8rdi16

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Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Location
Long Beach, Mississippi
TDI
'05 Golf
I am not positive, but I think if it is out of range, it reads 0.0. This is a terrible way to build it, but I think it works this way.

I know one person who went all the way to the end of the slot, and it read 0.0, and it ran like crap. When he got it closer to right then it started displaying realistic numbers.

I think it is showing the substitute number that the ECU is using - zero - when the sensor has failed.

Can anyone confirm this? I get a reading of 0.0 but the engine is running VERY bad. Missing, bucking, and tons of black smoke. Just hoping it's the cam timing before I put a new cam in!
 

rentstdi

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Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
River of fall
TDI
jetta, 05, platnum
I beleave that if the timing is out of range it will also read 0.0 but it wont fluctuate the 0.5 under load/rpm range
 

mnguy

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Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Location
Elk River Minnesota
TDI
2006 jetta
I just did the mechanical pin the cam and align the crank marks and it turned out great. No more rough idle and the clutch engages way smoother in first gear. 153,000 on the original dmf and clutch. If I didn't find a worn cam lobe it would have been a good day.
 

srdjokos

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Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Location
Sarajevo
TDI
golf 4
Still shaking PD

If anyone has some idea what do do please tell me cause I did everything I know to stop the shaking but it doesnt help.

The timing is set to 0.0. I have just changed the DMF+clutch, practicly I changed the whole set, and the motor is still shaking, it only shakes when its hot, I mean it shakes the whole car, but when it is cold he only has a rough idle but it doesent shake the whole car. I have a feeling it swims in the engine bay, I was suspicious on the engine mounts but I compared it to another car and it seems same and it shifs smooth.

When you listen to it, it works very smooth no changes in the rythm. There are no faults in vcds 805.

Its and MKIV 1,9 PD TDI SOHC 100HP AXR.

I dont have any more ideas what to do. I am opened to all sugestions.
 

srdjokos

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Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Location
Sarajevo
TDI
golf 4
Yes I did, I bought the green one and changed it and now there is no fault code.

I forgot to mention that i have an high consumption 7.2L/100KM this is close to 33MPG.
 
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NL-TDI

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Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Location
Ottawa-Kemptville
TDI
06 Jetta
Not sure. The kind of rough idle i had was the kind that would go away by simply turning on the rear defrost. ( which increases load on eng) when i reset my timing i was about +1.4 and its been great ever since so maybe you could try going a little more past zero? Have u checked to see if its a glow plug issue? Good luck. I know how annoying it is!!
 

srdjokos

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Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Location
Sarajevo
TDI
golf 4
Not sure. The kind of rough idle i had was the kind that would go away by simply turning on the rear defrost. ( which increases load on eng) when i reset my timing i was about +1.4 and its been great ever since so maybe you could try going a little more past zero? Have u checked to see if its a glow plug issue? Good luck. I know how annoying it is!!
When i turn on AC and rear heater the rough idle is still present but its not so obvious as when these two are off.

Heaters are ok, I tested them. And the rough idle is strongest when the engine is hot. When it is cold there is practicly no rough idle.
 

Henrick

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Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
Set the cam timing to 1.0. 0.0 might mean 'out of range' and this might be your problem.
 

srdjokos

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Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Location
Sarajevo
TDI
golf 4

Henrick

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Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
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Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
I see. Check your Engine measuring block 013 values. Write them down when idle is smooth and write them down when idle is rough. Compare. Significant difference? (BTW, you should observe those only while engine is idling with no load)
 

Ice2Cool

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Location
South Africa
TDI
Golf MKV 1.9TDI DSG
Hey guys,

Great post this! Im not very clued up on auto mechanics but after reading this thread i took out my vcds cable to read these values from my car.

I have a Golf 5 1.9TDI which has been remapped to a stage 1 tune from Revo. The readings were as follows:

Group 004: Pump-Jet Valves
819 /min Engine Speed (G28)
0.6 °BTDC Injection Start (specified)
7.1°KW Injection Duration (specified)
-2.4°KW Torsion Value

Now - my car has been starting a bit rougher recently. My fuel economy is very bad and my power seems slightly down. From the VCDS readings above could it be my cam timing? If it is i will get my mechanic at my factory to help me sort it out.
 

TonyJetta

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Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Tucson, Az
TDI
'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
-2.4°KW Torsion Value
That's not necessarily bad. I'm not sure I would adjust it.

Now - my car has been starting a bit rougher recently.
DO you mean that it cranks a little longer that usual? What are your ambient temperatures? <45F when starting? Any Glow Plug related codes?

From the VCDS readings above could it be my cam timing? If it is i will get my mechanic at my factory to help me sort it out.
I would not think cam timing. How many miles/km's on the car?

I'm assuming this is a PD TDI motor. What is the engine code? If it is a PD, I am thinking the cam may be failing.

If it is i will get my mechanic at my factory to help me sort it out.
Have your mechanic pull the valve cover to inspect the cam.

Here's a good thread with LOTS of information. Specifically look at the 2nd picture. There should be a 45 degree chamfer between the side of the cam lobe and the lobe / wear surface. If this chamfer is gone and there is a sharp edge that you can feel with your finger, the cam is at least starting to fail.

If you need more help with the cam, I would start another thread, as it is off topic in this thread.

Tony
 
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