TDI broke

[Driver_found]

My recent experience with the VW Tech Line was not good. Try and get away from this particular car as best you can. That would be my advice. You don't need the headache on a basically new car. New Passats (or something else) are rolling off the assembly line every day.

I've owned lots of cars, and you have to know when to let one go. What scares me in this case is the issue where they are stumped. Because they seem to be relying on codes instead of basic diagnostic knowhow, on a car that they built. Explore your legal options as well. Just because there are laws in place to protect us, in situations like this.

 

[psd1]

Hold the phone right there! They're using starting fluid on it? That's a massive no-no, as it will pre-ignite on the glow plugs and create enormous pressure in the cylinders, potentially cracking the piston rings. No shop, especially a dealership should be using starting fluid on a modern diesel.

When you're stumped, you're stumped! What else does a guy do?

 

[JSWTDI09]

When you're stumped, you're stumped! What else does a guy do?

Yeah, dump in a bunch of starter fluid, crack the rings and then VW will have to replace the whole engine - problem solved (we hope).

Have Fun!

Don

 

[barshnik]

I'm getting sick about this situation. One mor thing to have VOA note in the case file.

 

[barshnik]

Stopped by my local dealer (got home from vacation last night). I spoke with service a bit about what happened. It just so happens they have a '14 in the shop now for the same thing - its in now for the 2nd time! First time just stopped running, like mine, no codes. VOA Techline never did get totally to the bottom of it, some kind of electrical gremlin perhaps, but they did get it running. Customer comes in a couple days later with a light and code this time - code pertains to injector failures. Getting ready to replace all 4 injectors, they'll let me know. So, at least I'm not the only one with a 'head scratcher'.

With our frequent trips in the desert (Mojave, Death Valley, Northern Nevada, etc.) where there is little cell service and very little traffic and few people, I'm thinking this particular Passat may not be good for us. We do have 4 other vehicles (2009 Boxster, 2001 Land Rover Discovery, 1998 E36 BMW, and 1969 Datsun Roadster) and now I'd be more inclined to hop in any one of those than the TDI if taking a trip anywhere in the NV / CA / AZ / NM/ UT wastelands - even with no AC in the Datsun!

Have not heard anything from the dealer in NoCal care taking my Passat, but will let you know when I do. Sure wish I had my '09 Sportwagen TDI back right about now. Will be interesting to see how much VOA will be prepared to do to try to get my loyalty, confidence, and business back.

------edit-------
On a more positive note, I just checked the mail and got notification of the turbo extended warranty! That makes me feel much better!
*as I hop in my rental heading to the Audi dealer to check out the A6*

 

[barshnik]

------update--------

Got a call from VOA and they've escalated both the Techline and Customer Service. Sounded as though it is now being treated as a broken HPFP,l new parts are on the way. They offered another rental.

 

[higgledy]

sounds like they are guessing. That can't be a good sign. Sorry for your troubles.

 

[barshnik]

They have to start somewhere, and this is probably as good an approach as any. I don't think it is much 'guessing' as just wanting as many parts out of it to return to the engineers for examination. At least I'll have the latest iteration of HPFP and related items, so not all bad in my book.

 

[barshnik]

Of course the HPFP was not the issue. Remember, it just quit suddenly with no noise, smoke, dash lights, etc., just suddenly quit running. So now, after 2 weeks, dealer has ordered a new ECU (ECM?, computer?) and should have it in a day or 2.

Getting to like putting more time in some of our other cars. Drove the Boxster today - is the wives car but every time I drive it I appreciate the build quality, sounds, steering feel, suspension setup, brake feel, well, most everything seems good with that car.

Been driving the 1998 BMW 323i conv I bought a couple months ago for $999. Wife has fallen in love with it too. I need to get the top working soon, but other than that (and the trunk) everything works, and works well. Quite a nice little car and quick enough with the inline 6.

Tomorrow driving the 1969 Datsun roadster (2000 with Solexs), and that is alway a good time!

Am supposed to hear from VOA Customer Service later today, but don't expect the computer has arrived at the dealer yet. I'll update if something happens.

 

[czeetah]

Inquiring Minds Want To Know

 

[Abacus]

Sounds like they're just throwing parts at it like most stealerships do rather than diagnosing the problem.

 

[barshnik]

Inquiring Minds Want To Know

OK, get ready for this - as I was told to expect, my car showed up on a nice tow truck bed this morning at 6AM. Unloaded, drove it to work and back (70 miles total) and have now given it a bit of a look.

No complaints. For as much disassembly as was done, there don't seem to be any fume or liquid leaks, nor any bad sounds. There are 5 pages of text describing every thing that was done, in quite good detail.

It does boil down to a theory that it was run down to the very end of a tank of fuel, and managed to get a few air bubbles past everything, all the way to the injectors themselves. After bleeding injector by injector while cranking, it started and runs. The service invoice makes for some interesting reading.

Aside from a few 'bumps in the road' over the last 3 1/2 weeks, I have no complaints. In fact, I'll even go so far as to say that both the dealer (Hansel VW in Santa Rosa CA) and VOA were very professional and for the most part, helpful. Its all worked out (so far anyway). Sorry I don't have any negative things to say about any of this, aside from the design of the engine which can allow air pockets to appear past the rail and into the injectors.

 

[czeetah]

Ha, bought a Toyota Solara from Hansel in Petaluma in 2000

Sister still drives that car after i disposed of it

 

[JSWTDI09]

John, I'm glad that they got it fixed OK. However, I think it's a little sad that they basically ended up finding a way to blame you for the whole problem (letting it almost run out of fuel). If they are correct about the cause of what happened (an air bubble in the injector), then it is a design flaw somewhere in the fuel system that allowed this to happen. Where is the warning in the owner's manual telling you to never let the car run low on fuel?

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. ...and if it was such a simple problem, why did it take them weeks (and $$$ parts) to fix it. You can't be the first Passat owner to let the car run low on fuel.

 

[barshnik]

P.S. ...and if it was such a simple problem, why did it take them weeks (and $$$ parts) to fix it. You can't be the first Passat owner to let the car run low on fuel.

I'm not, and not the first to have a problem. There is a Passat TDI at one of our fine VW dealers right now that, from what little they'll talk about, suffers from what sounds like a nearly identical condition. They have not tried the 'injector bleeding' technique though and the car has been in and out of the shop for well over a month. I believe it is now in the process of a 'buy back' as the owner and the service department both seem to have given up.

The Hansel tech, while following instructions from the VOA Techline QTM, did seem to get a little creative and it ultimately paid off. So, despite horrible Yelp reviews, I found Hansel to be very good - providing a loaner for a few days so we could continue our vacation, and then a one-way rental to get home. And most importantly, fixed the car and made arrangements to have it transported 600 miles back to my house.

So although I took the 'you ran it very low on fuel' a bit too literally and personally, I have little doubt that what they are saying is basically true. The problem of course is that I drove into the Chevron, didn't coast in. And, drove 31 miles after the fill before the engine simply stopped running.

 

[barshnik]

...and if it was such a simple problem, why did it take them weeks (and $$$ parts) to fix it?

Once an issue is turned over to VW Techline, the local techs are for the most part just following directions and reporting back results. They were told to replace the HPFP, told to replace the ECM, told to drain the fuel tank, etc.

The good news (assuming the truthfulness of the proceedings) is that the fix probably is doable in your own driveway (especially with vagcom).

 

[FormerOwner]

VW dealers sometimes love it when parts are being thrown... kinda like when your favorite QB throws a TD pass... ya gotta love it!

 

[Genesis]

I ain't buying it, especially not with the time driven down the road before it died.

Never mind the facts on how common-rail systems work; they self-purge. It is not like a distributor pump system where an air bubble in a line can preclude the needle lifting in the injector and thus injection never starts since the air is compressible (thus the air never leaves!) The common rail system provides fuel under pressure to the rail; when the needle is lifted whatever is behind it is going through the nozzle, whether it's fuel or fuel with entrained air, as it's under the same amount of pressure.

It sounds like they had no idea what was broken and kept replacing parts until they got the bad one, at which point the car started and ran normally.

 

[jetlagmech]

they replaced many compnents now say the air in the system was from you????? sound like they didnt bleed the system correctly after replaceing parts and caused the air problem themselves. glad to hear its ok now and you got the car back without having to take a day long drive.

 

[barshnik]

I just don't know.

 

[Abacus]

Holy crap.

If the injectors can get air bound then it's just another reason not to own one.

 

[JSWTDI09]

I wonder who's Passat they used for testing (comparison). Was it another customer's car or a new car that will be sold to another customer later?
This is the first time I have seen paperwork where they admitted using a know good car and disabling it to test sensor readings. An interesting read! Thanks for sharing.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. ...and you got a free new HPFP out of the deal.

 

[barshnik]

I wonder who's Passat they used for testing (comparison). Was it another customer's car or a new car that will be sold to another customer later?
This is the first time I have seen paperwork where they admitted using a know good car and disabling it to test sensor readings. An interesting read! Thanks for sharing.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. ...and you got a free new HPFP out of the deal.

Your dealer keeps a trade in TDi available for just this reason. Of course, they'll sell it if they can, but they like having one around for comparison mostly of electronic readings.

I thought it was a good read. All in all, I think they did a good job, and despite the occasional spelling / punctuation / spelling, the tech kept good records. Hey, he got it fixed without having a buy back take place. That is a very good thing for the dealer and VW both.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Summary: ECM died and starved engine of fuel. Replace ECM and bleed fuel rail and injectors, and it works again.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Holy crap.

If the injectors can get air bound then it's just another reason not to own one.

Same thing can happen on the VE engines. Run out of fuel and you have to bleed the air out of the system.

 

[barshnik]

Summary: ECM died and starved engine of fuel. Replace ECM and bleed fuel rail and injectors, and it works again.

That easy-peasy?

 

[TDIEQNY]

wow thats some novel

 

[VeeDubTDI]

That easy-peasy?

Could be, maybe not. It's hard to make sense of what the actual cause was, since they ended up doing so much stuff to it.

 

[Abacus]

Same thing can happen on the VE engines. Run out of fuel and you have to bleed the air out of the system.

But with a fully pressurized fuel rail? I thought the CR injectors were piezoelectric and just allowed the pressurized fuel to pass through. Wouldn't this create a self-purge like Genesis mentioned?

 

[Genesis]

Yes, it does.