TDI and ethanol-blended diesel

[rwolff]

One thing I've read about is that in Ontario, there's a high probability that it will be mandatory for all diesel fuel sold to be blended with ethanol starting around 2005/2006. Through other sources, I've heard that the TDI can't handle the stuff. What's the scoop on using ethanol-blended diesel in a TDI?

One of the main reasons I was looking at a TDI was as (expensive) insurance against lack of fuel availability (i.e. can use B100, which is renewable). If it turns out that there's a significant probability that I won't be able to get fuel for a TDI, then my next car will be a gasser (if the fuel supply dries up, still has the possibility to burn alcohol by boosting fuel flow through bigger injectors/higher pressure/modified chip/some combination).

BTW, if I get a gasser, it won't be a VW. The one I'm looking at is normally aspirated (i.e. no turbo to blow up), and for the price of a Jetta Wagon TDI I'd be able to get a gas powered wagon plus (based on how much I drive and fuel that's significantly more expensive than now) about 10 years worth of fuel.

[ September 04, 2002, 04:01: Message edited by: rwolff ]

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Wasn't Tim Haig from BioX hopeful that the government or Sunoco would buy one of their biodiesel plants to make a diesel blend that accomplishes this emissions reduction? That would give the gov a domestic source and help their economy/press. I believe that this blend thing is what Minnesota and other places have done.

 

[Drivbiwire]

Mixing alcohol and diesel is a MAJOR no-no. Diesel rely on lubricity, cutting it with alcohol will create excessive wear and damage to seals and the nearly 20,000 psi fuel system.

This is why no additive should ever be used containing alcohol.

Good additives:
-Standyne
-Power Service WITH Cetane Boost

VERY BAD Additives:
-Power Service WITHOUT Cetane boost

DB

 

[Weisse Bora]

Oh Canada! I like how other countries take our silly legislation and adopt it to their own situation. This is the case in point, oxygenates were once touted as the cure-all for gasoline car emissions...that being based on point-ignition, carburated engines. By the time the law became mandatory, closed-loop fuel injected cars became the fleet norm and oxygenates were of no help.

Canada is doing the same with diesel? Wow, an engine that normally runs with excess oxygen now needs more? That's D U M M dumb.

Biodiesel, being an ester, contains oxygen on both the carboxylic and alcohol radicals. Ergo, instead of adding EtOH, why not add a corresponding quantity of BD? This is a rhetorical question because there is not one educated head in all of the CA Parliment or the US Congress that even knows what is an ester.

 

[Pat Dolan]

Originally posted by Weisse Bora:
This is a rhetorical question because there is not one educated head in all of the CA Parliment or the US Congress that even knows what is an ester.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pick me! Pick me!....Uh, Ester Williams was a movie star or something, huh? I think you spelled her name wrong though, its E s t h e r. Was this a trick question?

You aren't suggesting that technical laws and regs be written from valid science? Our entire system would come crashing down. Laws are enacted from emotion and written by lawyers, that's how the system works. Your a heretic!

 

[jtroyce]

Interestingly enough, diesel engines can run on 100% ethanol, although it requires some conversions (including the type of seal/gasket material used). In Stockholm, all of the city busses burn neat ethanol. The engines are minimally modified from the original petro-diesel design and the results are excellent in terms of pollution.

Here is a brief summary of the program there:
http://www.surface.akzonobel.com/fueladd.pdf

 

[Old Navy]

rwolff Just make sure you don't buy one of those Toyotas that sludg the engine up.

Oops then you wouldn't be able to buy a Toyota then.

 

[MITBeta]

diesel engines can run on 100% ethanol

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This may be the case once you get the fuel to the cylinder, but in the mean time most diesel fuel pumps will grenade from lack of lubrication.

You can burn just about ANYTHING in a diesel engine, once you get the fuel there...

 

[gdr703]

Mohawk are conducting an experiment at Winnipeg bus with e-diesel. Its a blend of fossil fuel, ethanol (7.5%) and something else to make them mix properly.
Check out the huskyenergy website.

 

[MOGolf]

Mixed in the proper proportions ethanol can be safely mixed with diesel fuel. It is commonly called "oxydiesel" and is already used in the trucking industry. Obviously there is more to making it than taking 2TF and adding ethanol.

One of my former employers produces the ethanol used for gasohol and oxydiesel, as well as producing biodiesel in some parts of the planet.

This scaremongering reminds me of when gasohol was introduced. It turned out to be a good, clean burning fuel.