TDI 4Motion?

Heavy_W8

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
South FL
TDI
W8 & VR6 ready for swaps
Hey all, this is my first post on this board. My wife and I have a 2003 Passat W8 4Motion (tiptronic)

Unfortunately the engine just met it's maker. I still owe a bit on the car and I'm trying to avoid having to call the bank and tell them to repo it. A new engine goes for about ohhhhh 14k so the car is offically "totaled". I found a W8 donor car for 5k but at the end of that kind of swap I'll still be driving a super rare fragile motor with high miles.

My wife and I would love to convert the Passat into a TDI. If I can't do a swap we plan on buying a B5.5 TDI (there's a nice 05 local) We're definitely sold on the benefits of diesel and we're excited to eventually be an all diesel family...

I did some looking around and I've seen enough TDI 4Motions to make me think this may be possible. I have the people and the tools. I just need to know if this is even doable? :confused:

Can a TDI engine be linked up to my trans? Can a TDI trans bolt up to the 4Motion?

Any help is very much appreciated!
 

Aidan

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Location
Midlands, UK
4motion in a Passat is audi's quattro system. There are a lot of tdi quattros and 4motions in Europe.
You could buy a complete 130 engine and manual box for probably £1000 here in the UK. Auto box a bit more, though if the bellhousing could be swapped maybe your existing box's gear ratios/setup will match a tdi well.
As always you'll need someone good on the wiring.
 

kane66

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Location
MillCity, OR
TDI
only IDI's so far
I think you might discover that this would be a rather difficult swap, and the wiring might be the "Easy Part". The W8 is a longitudinally mounted engine, using Audis transmission technology, and the TDI's where transverse mounted using a vw transmission. Which makes me think that even if you did find the "proper" tdi to install it wouldn't match your transmission. You might be able to use a !$adapter plate$! or the bell housing from a 1.8t and just mount the engine longitudinal style, but that would cost a lot and the gear ratios would may be all wrong. Your best bet would be to source a full drive train from a Euro passat 4motion that came in TDI. because your going to need a new engine, transmission, front cv axles, and possibley a new center drive shaft, along with all the wiring and ecm$$$$. Any way search throught he conversion forum, just make sure to set the drop down at the bottom to show you conversions from the beggining. you can also check out http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=212459&highlight=4motion
seems similar even though I didn't take the time to read it. Good luck.
 

jsrmonster

Veteran Member - TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Location
Red Lion, PA
TDI
15 Golf SW DSG, RC3 piped, 99.5 Jetta Rocket PD150 6spd 4motion, 2000 ASV110 RC6 "Silverbullet" 5spd Race Car, 2003.5 Cummins QCLB 4x4 "Blue Monster" Jeep CRD juiced, MB Sprinter van juiced up
This would be a good conversion project, but you'll need the complete drive train from an european tdi passat/audi so gear ratios would match the lower rpms of the tdi 2.0 L PD. Use the 121 pin ecu archecture with a frankenstein tune.

Put my name 1st on your list for your potential buyers if you decide to sell your car. I am in the process of getting a PD motor and 6spd for transplant into my 2000 Passat wagon gasser. Yours would be a better donar car for this ;-)
Jeff
 

Heavy_W8

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
South FL
TDI
W8 & VR6 ready for swaps
jsrmonster said:
This would be a good conversion project, but you'll need the complete drive train from an european tdi passat/audi so gear ratios would match the lower rpms of the tdi 2.0 L PD. Use the 121 pin ecu archecture with a frankenstein tune.

Put my name 1st on your list for your potential buyers if you decide to sell your car. I am in the process of getting a PD motor and 6spd for transplant into my 2000 Passat wagon gasser. Yours would be a better donar car for this ;-)
Jeff
My problem is that I owe far more than it's worth with the seized engine. I guess my concern is that I could go get an 05 TDI around the same payment I'm at now. I'd just have to eat a repo. Anyone know what a Euro Spec drivetrain would run me? Going to search now...
 

hustler900

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Location
VT/NY
TDI
1991 Acura NSX, 1999 FUSO FG
Heavy_W8 said:
My problem is that I owe far more than it's worth with the seized engine. I guess my concern is that I could go get an 05 TDI around the same payment I'm at now. I'd just have to eat a repo. Anyone know what a Euro Spec drivetrain would run me? Going to search now...
Any idea what caused the engine to seize? Lack of oil? Overheated? I'm curious to know what kinds of problems people are running into with these W8 engines.
 

kane66

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Location
MillCity, OR
TDI
only IDI's so far
oops I was wrong the b5 passats were longitudinal mounted engines, finally found a picture of one.... So it looks like the only things you might need are an engine, transmission, and a lot of patience.
 

leicaman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Location
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP
kane66 said:
oops I was wrong the b5 passats were longitudinal mounted engines, finally found a picture of one.... So it looks like the only things you might need are an engine, transmission, and a lot of patience.
and money....
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
There are probably a few options you have here. I will have to take a look at what your rear diff ratio is first. I am a bit busy this afternoon, but I might have a bit more time later tonight. :)
 

Heavy_W8

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
South FL
TDI
W8 & VR6 ready for swaps
hustler900 said:
Any idea what caused the engine to seize? Lack of oil? Overheated? I'm curious to know what kinds of problems people are running into with these W8 engines.
Well for one the W8 is a ticking time bomb with about 2-3 major malfunctions that are going to happen in it's lifetime. (google W8 cam adjuster problem) Mine was pretty solid though with most of the major stuff caught early.

My wife was driving to work doing about 70 on the highway. Coolant warning popped up, she was trying to get to the side of road and the car seized before she could even get all the way off. VW said it had a critical cooling problem and there was likely internal damage. The guy said VW doesn't make internal parts for this motor which was confirmed by the other 10 people I asked... :(

TDIsyncro said:
There are probably a few options you have here. I will have to take a look at what your rear diff ratio is first. I am a bit busy this afternoon, but I might have a bit more time later tonight. :)
Thanks so much again! Any pointing in the right direction is appreciated. :D
 

fitzski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Uh... hmm... Well, none...
Gary... have you posted your issue at the W8 forum? Others will be interested in knowing what happened, with an eye toward protecting themselves. While the thermostat is a known issue with the W8, failure is in safe (open, circulation) mode.

http://www.w8forum.dk

I'm interested in what folks say about the swap, as it's something I've (briefly) considered as well - I think I'd have a tough time giving up the smooth and effortless W8, though.
 

hustler900

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Location
VT/NY
TDI
1991 Acura NSX, 1999 FUSO FG
Heavy_W8 said:
The guy said VW doesn't make internal parts for this motor which was confirmed by the other 10 people I asked... :(
This amazes me! VW is asking for angry owners with an engine that is not only trouble prone and extremely expensive, but that can not even be repaired!
 

fitzski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Uh... hmm... Well, none...
hustler900 said:
This amazes me! VW is asking for angry owners with an engine that is not only trouble prone and extremely expensive, but that can not even be repaired!
I personally wouldn't consider the W8 to be trouble prone. The major known issue is the hydraulic cam adjusters, and depending on your luck, can be fixed with a can of Sea Foam, a 9v battery, or can require $10k of work. The MAP controlled thermostat is another weakness specific to the W8, a ~$300 part buried under the intake manifold.

That's it... 2 things. Just because they are expensive items doesn't make the engine trouble prone, IMO.

Heavy's is the first case I've heard of relating to abrupt engine failure - though if it's a coolant-related issue, that may not be a specific fault of the engine, either.

As to replacement internal parts (which I take to be pistons, rods, cylinder head, etc.)... I'd be fairly certain that it's more cost effective - both for VW and for the customer - to install a new engine rather than rebuild.
 

Heavy_W8

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
South FL
TDI
W8 & VR6 ready for swaps
fitzski said:
Gary... have you posted your issue at the W8 forum? Others will be interested in knowing what happened, with an eye toward protecting themselves. While the thermostat is a known issue with the W8, failure is in safe (open, circulation) mode.

http://www.w8forum.dk

I'm interested in what folks say about the swap, as it's something I've (briefly) considered as well - I think I'd have a tough time giving up the smooth and effortless W8, though.
Hi Fitzski, I'm familiar with that board but my name isn't Gary. I know the W8 community is pretty tight so hopefully I didn't freak you out thinking one of your friends cars died...

The VW tech said I "blew the freeze plug right out of the engine". I'm guessing the fail safe didn't kick in?

Oh and about giving up the engine, I completely agree. All my friends keep asking "why don't you just put in a 1.8t?" and I'm like uhhhhh its a torque thing, you wouldn't understand. :) The W8 was a gem of a motor. I will miss it dearly...
 

fitzski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Uh... hmm... Well, none...
My apologies... I made a presumption, as there is a "Heavy W8" user on the other forum as well. I figured... "what are the odds?"!! ;)

Keep us posted.
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
OK. You have a BDP code engine with 5 speed auto..so the rear diff is a 35/9, or 3.89:1. This matches up with any of the Audi A4 trannies. I need to know a bit more about what you anticipate spending and what skill level you are comfortable taking on. This project will cost you anywhere from 7000-12000 depending on how you go about it. The easiest route is getting a 4motion TDI passat import from Scott Dewitt, and transfer everything over. It will also give you the best complete finish to the job. You can try piecing it together yourself but it will end up being close to the same cost with a lot more headache. If you found a B5 passat TDI, you could salvage the engine, engine harness, mounts, rad, core supprt, starter, accessories, etc. Then pick-up a 5speed 01A EEP code tranny and flywheel/clutch from europe. Get an EDC15P ECU, do some custom wire tie inns...its a lot of work!
 

Heavy_W8

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
South FL
TDI
W8 & VR6 ready for swaps
TDIsyncro said:
OK. You have a BDP code engine with 5 speed auto..so the rear diff is a 35/9, or 3.89:1. This matches up with any of the Audi A4 trannies. I need to know a bit more about what you anticipate spending and what skill level you are comfortable taking on. This project will cost you anywhere from 7000-12000 depending on how you go about it. The easiest route is getting a 4motion TDI passat import from Scott Dewitt, and transfer everything over. It will also give you the best complete finish to the job. You can try piecing it together yourself but it will end up being close to the same cost with a lot more headache. If you found a B5 passat TDI, you could salvage the engine, engine harness, mounts, rad, core supprt, starter, accessories, etc. Then pick-up a 5speed 01A EEP code tranny and flywheel/clutch from europe. Get an EDC15P ECU, do some custom wire tie inns...its a lot of work!
Money is a little more tight than time/experience. My good friend is a 10 year Audi tech and is willing to help me out with this. I also have a few VW mechanics ready to help as well. What do you think a 4motion TDI Passat would run me if I imported one? Oh and sorry but who is Scotte Dewitt and how would one go about contacting him? :)

Thanks for all the help!
 

Aidan

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Location
Midlands, UK
what rpm does the engine sit at when cruising at say 70mph?
As I mentioned earlier, tdi passats/a4/a6 are common here. Prices paid for euro stuff over there is crazy, 7000-12000 would buy a car here. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to get everything you need for about £1500

Have a look at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/A6-TDI-QUATTRO-SPORT-AUTO-year-2000-2-5-AKE-BREAKING_W0QQitemZ370225340489QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5633266049&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A4%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200
 

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
I have read up some on the conversion as well since my mother drives a 03 vr6 engined passat 4 motion. I would say if you have a spare car for the time this will take and the money and the tooling to custum make parts you can do it but I could only find a few that have done it. To bad VW didn't just sell them here as they would have sold like hot cakes. I would have bought one living in WY.
 

TDIsyncro

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Heavy_W8 said:
Wow am I ever impressed. I hadn't even considered a 6cyl TDI swap. :eek:
That was a nice swap, however..I think the dollar value is going to the upper end of the scale for sure. As much as I like the concept of V6 torque and smooth power, the concept of maintenance on an entirely off shore engine does not personally sit well with me. The 4cyl TDI's pretty much have full interchangability between overseas and NA. Just something to think about.
 

Heavy_W8

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
South FL
TDI
W8 & VR6 ready for swaps
TDIsyncro said:
That was a nice swap, however..I think the dollar value is going to the upper end of the scale for sure. As much as I like the concept of V6 torque and smooth power, the concept of maintenance on an entirely off shore engine does not personally sit well with me. The 4cyl TDI's pretty much have full interchangability between overseas and NA. Just something to think about.
Very good point. At this point since I don't have the money for a new car yet or the TDI parts I'm just gathering information. Should be ready to make a move by the end of the month. I contacted Scott by the way but never heard back...
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
do a 1.8T syncro swap and save the money a tdi swap would cost for an apr stage 3 kit. having parts that are available in the usa is a big future cost saver.
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
G60ING said:
do a 1.8T syncro swap and save the money a tdi swap would cost for an apr stage 3 kit. having parts that are available in the usa is a big future cost saver.
thats an excellent idea! no gear changes. na tranny. I even have a low mile AWM 1.8T for sale..cheap!:D
 

kane66

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Location
MillCity, OR
TDI
only IDI's so far
G60ING said:
do a 1.8T syncro swap and save the money a tdi swap would cost for an apr stage 3 kit. having parts that are available in the usa is a big future cost saver.
Finally a voice of sanity.
 

fitzski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Uh... hmm... Well, none...
Why do a swap, then... weren't 1.8t's available with a 4mo option?
 

Heavy_W8

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
South FL
TDI
W8 & VR6 ready for swaps
Will it mount up to the trans? I didn't think I could. I figured the cost of teh swap would be the same why not go TDI? :confused:
 
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