TB/ Delete Kit & what else should be done while it's all appart?

[tdiblair]

I'm going to have the TBI and Delete kit ( alternative BHW oil pump, chain and pulley)installed. I also hear it's a good time to do the Motor Mounts regardless if they are leaking and the 'Pulley' on the Alternator changed out. Heard the original pulley has a high failure rate? While it's all apart are their other known issues I should have addressed? Your opinions appreciated. I'm guessing we are all good with Bora Parts or ID.Parts or should some of major parts like the Water -Pump be bought from a original VW source (Dealer) versus OEM parts from an internet source??

TDI-Blair

 

[vwztips]

Well you said you didn't want a plastic impellor water pump but that's what the VW unit comes with. ID or Bora are great to work with. I know Bora has free shipping on orders over $75. Don't get too hung up on the water pumps as it is best to replace it at each belt replacement which means 80k-100k intervals. Most pumps will easily make this. I have seen a few VW and aftermarket pumps go before 80k but that would be a very low percentage.

 

[Zambee500]

Any of the registered vendors here will treat you right. I've had lots of luck with both Aaron at Bora and IDParts. World Impex, DieselGeek, MetalManParts have also been good to me in my experience. As Tips alludes, most of the vendors stock upgraded after-market water pumps (Graf, Hepu) with metal impellers, rather than the VW OEM with the plastic impeller. Don't overthink it if you stay with one of the mentioned vendors.

You could consider replacing some of the stuff in the AC and Serp belt paths, but not really necessarily. I had a tensioner and relay roller replaced at one TB change that wasn't included in the kits. Not sure what other folks think about doing that preemptively.

Totally unrelated, but the darn plastic dipstick funnel likes to harden and crack somewhere after 100k miles. Probably worth the extra $11 to replace that preemptively to avoid a later mess. But again, not really necessary. Part No. 038-103-663-B.

The alternator pulley is a must. I've seen what can happen when they come apart and it's scary.

 

[tdiblair]

VWZ...I just got off with a repair place and he said 'exactly' you just said. That he ordered a TB kit from the Dealer and got the Plastic Impeller.
Said he preferred water pumps from Graf or Hepu water pumps over VW Stock Dealer pumps. He was a VW / Audi repair center in CT. Said he had about 12 customers with these diesels. I was ready to go with new Motor Mounts but he said, they hold up - no need to change them out unless we see a failure and when it goes we can just as easily replace the motor mount later. As to the pulley on the alternator, once again he said- sure some fail- but most don't. No push from him to have that done either. On the Delete Kit he said he has only done 1. That of his customer base he has not seen the balance shaft failure, yet, but is aware of the chatter. Even on the TB he just replace one with 200,000 miles on it. Not that he recommends that, but said this customer does nothing until he has too, but he got away with it. Well, I'm going for the Delete anyway. I'm just saying he has not seen the failure - yet, but has seen the tensioning shoe on the V-6 fail - just not yet on the 12 Passat TDI's he has coming in. ....anyway, he was happy with Bora and IDParts and confirmed the plastic impeller at the Dealer, as you just did.

 

[bbexotics]

Change tranny fluid at the same time

 

[Nash_TDI]

You might want to do a cam inspection ahead of time to know if you need one of those.

Motor mounts are a lot easier done with the subframe dropped. I did a pair without it. Passenger one was a little tedious. Just check ahead of time if they are leaking.

 

[johnboy00]

VWZ...I just got off with a repair place and he said 'exactly' you just said. That he ordered a TB kit from the Dealer and got the Plastic Impeller.
Said he preferred water pumps from Graf or Hepu water pumps over VW Stock Dealer pumps. He was a VW / Audi repair center in CT. Said he had about 12 customers with these diesels. I was ready to go with new Motor Mounts but he said, they hold up - no need to change them out unless we see a failure and when it goes we can just as easily replace the motor mount later. As to the pulley on the alternator, once again he said- sure some fail- but most don't. No push from him to have that done either. On the Delete Kit he said he has only done 1. That of his customer base he has not seen the balance shaft failure, yet, but is aware of the chatter. Even on the TB he just replace one with 200,000 miles on it. Not that he recommends that, but said this customer does nothing until he has too, but he got away with it. Well, I'm going for the Delete anyway. I'm just saying he has not seen the failure - yet, but has seen the tensioning shoe on the V-6 fail - just not yet on the 12 Passat TDI's he has coming in. ....anyway, he was happy with Bora and IDParts and confirmed the plastic impeller at the Dealer, as you just did.

If you have somebody you trust, just use him and let him get all the parts.

 

[tdiblair]

Well, oddly this is the second mechanic who has worked on these Passat Diesels and has not seen a BSM fail. I just had a talk with him over the job while paying for the brake job he just finished on my TDI. Granted, both mechanic's exposure to 2004/05 Passat Diesel's is less than a internet forum dedicated to this specific car, so we have an unfair advantage over these two mechanics. They were just two guy giving 'their' experience, or lack of experience, with these chained BSM's letting go. I felt throwing the forum in their face would have been rude and frankly I'm not sure what the % of failure is on this forum. My conclusion would be either one would simply ask me what is that failure rate and none of us , here, really know. We just know it's out there and it's expensive if it happens. I get it. This second mechanic, who also builds dragsters, for a hobby, said he has removed balance shafts from both VW's and some Mazda's with another issue they had with their balance shaft. He said, normally, when I remove the balance shaft it is a ' race' application for the faster RPM Rev. He really felt replacing the existing BSM parts with new, was the way to go if I were nervous about the design or a BSM part breaking. He felt he could still get the parts to the original BCM ( chained system that came with our cars) out of a Central Warehouse and felt after 10 years he would not be surprised if VW did not beef up the offending part. I did not get into some of close calls on this forum that happened before the 80,000 mile Timing Belt Interval. I did hint to him I heard the original parts are no longer offered. I didn't press it since it would take a phone call to his source to find out and it was closing time when I was picking up my car from the brake job. I just kept it polite and I did not get into the doubt I had about VW improving this BSM with an upgraded tensioner shoe for our chained BCM's. I realize the logic on this forum goes like this - " VWNA does not recognize this Chained BSM to be a problem so why improve something they don't know is flawed?" I spared him from our collective frustrations. I'm also not happy to hear the Passat V-6 chain tensioner has also let go. Another hint that not all is good with VW chain tensioners. The key point and good news is I have not heard of ALH chain tensioner problems - yet. So I kept my mouth shut and listened. Both were just honest mechanics sharing there specific history on theses diesel Passats and said they have not has one in here with a bad BSM. He just said the Delete Kit was not a big deal if I wanted it and that the vibration would not be that great on an engine with hydraulic motor mounts vs. a harder rubber mount. I assume we have hydraulic? I think I heard someone complain about a red fluid leaking from his mount? That sounds hydraulic to me. The other thing he added was cleaning the intake manifold and EGR. I know my 2001 Jetta Diesel had this issue where the Intake Manifold filled with black soot, but this was back in the days when diesel fuel was 500 PPM with Sulfur Content. Our 2004/05 Passat diesels only drink Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel where the Sulfur dropped from 500 PPM to just 15 PPM (Parts Per Million). Do we have an clogged intake manifold issue on these Passats??

Blair

 

[vwztips]

I am all for not fixing something that isn't broke or throwing parts at something just because some goofball on the internet said so.

However, IMHO I would HIGHLY recommend replacing the motor mounts unless you have had them replaced in the last 50k miles. If they are originals there is a newer version which seem to be better than the original. ONLY get VW units though. No aftermarket or OEM. From a labor stand point it should be a freebie during a delete.

Also replace the alternator pulley if you have an original black one.

Nothing against your mechanic, but my local VW dealer has never performed a delete or geared BSM either. (They have called me a couple of times to come listen to a strange sound though, which was chain noise.) The problem is there and will eventually fail.

 

[tdiblair]

VWZTIPS,

I appreciate the tip on the VW Unit Motor Mounts and the improved version, I did not know about that. Yes, mine are the originals. Is the only way to get VW Original mounts from a Dealer or will Bora parts have Mounts stamped Audi/VW on them if I specify VW?
I will check to see if my Pulley is painted black too.

Blair

 

[vwztips]

Yes Bora can get OEM mounts.

 

[50harleyrider]

I got the set from Bora and was pleased. Don't forget to replace that coolant flange on the back of the engine while you're in there. I sold a BHW Passat with a bad tranny that had well over 100k on the BSM conversion and was fine. Probably still fine, right vwztips?

 

[tdiblair]

"Don't forget to replace that coolant flange on the back of the engine"
Coolant Flange? What is this and what goes wrong with it?

Blair

 

[vwztips]

If you are doing major maintenance like this and want to address some preventative maintenance items then replacing the coolant flange, temp sensor and the tandem pump gasket are good items to address at this time.

The coolant flange is a water manifold bolted to the back of the head, that houses the temp sensor and has 3 water lines coming off it. Typically over time they will start leaking a small amount of coolant which progressively gets worse.

Any time the engine or transmission comes out it is SOP that I replace them as it is more challenging in the car. In your case, since the engine is not coming out, I would have mechanic inspect for wetness at the flange (or white/pink residue) and or fuel leakage around the tandem pump and go from there.

 

[tdiblair]

50HarleyRider, thanks for pointing this out. I think I remember a recall on the tandem pump on my brother's 04 Passat TDI pump - if this is the fuel pump on the back of the engine. Using a mirror to sneak back their we checked the color coding of paint marks on the pump housing to see if it was part of a recall. So I'll have him look for a leaks on mine.
VWZTIPs...once again .....I add your sage advise, not just on this but other points you have made, on a list for the mechanic. So now it's
1) Coolant Fange
2) Temp Sensor
3) Tandem Pump Gasket.

Stupid of me not to think about the Temp Sensor. I remember a friend's '02 Golf that he towed in for $150. The water temp gage went to red. We expected the worse. The next day after feeling the upper water hose to the radiator would warm up I said it not a stuck thermostat. There is water flow. Next I expected his plastic impeller water pump blades were gone since he was well over the TB change out but he said it happened all of a sudden - not gradual. I said it's your money so buy a $11 Temp Sensor from Autozone . A wild guess, but that's all it was and the water gage on the dash went instantly back to normal. All that inconvenience and $150 in towing over a faulty sensor. Good idea, I'll have it WVZTIPS, except I'll pay up for a $36 VW O.E. spec water temp sensor. How stupid of me to forget this....you saved me a needless tow charge on a winter night.

Blair

 

[auntulna]

All of the above are important, plus if you have too much vibration at idle, inspect transmission mounts. They are big hunks of rubber, not hard to remove to inspect. One of mine had big cracks in it and vibration was much better after replacing both.

 

[vwztips]

Almost forgot, replace the Tstat with a VW unit. Seems they are good for 8-10 years and then the spring gets weak and will not let the coolant get up to temp. Seen a rash of them go weak in the last year.

 

[50harleyrider]

All of the above are important, plus if you have too much vibration at idle, inspect transmission mounts. They are big hunks of rubber, not hard to remove to inspect. One of mine had big cracks in it and vibration was much better after replacing both.

That's one thing I haven't done to mine. Do you have a 'how to' on that procedure? Mine has an idle vibration and I thought the Panzer plate I added was causing it. I eliminated all the points of contact were it was close to or hitting the tranny and even put strips of rubber between it and the frame and even replaced and adjusted the snub mount.

 

[tdiblair]

Auntulna,

Well the wagon has 65,000 miles on it but it's 9 years old. At this point, if he has to remove the mount to inspect it, I might as well just have him replace the Tranny Mounts too. . I know I'm in front of the 80K suggested TB change out. I know many go over the suggested interval without breaking the TB. , but I ' hear' the MFG of the Timing Belt wants a change out - regardless of miles - after 7 years and I'm approaching 10 years. So age is not on my side and neither is the, prone to crack, bracket that holds the chain tensioning shoe giving me the confidence to wait until 80K. If it wasn't for that chain tensioner I'd wait but as it is now, The risk /reward of waiting another 15K is not too exciting. I do notice junk I store in my side door pockets rattles these days when I'm at idle, in gear, at a stop light - more so than a few years ago. Don't remember that when the car was newer. I don't see the Transmission Mounts at Bora but I'm guessing $35 per mount. Once done I'll probably get another 9 wonderful years out of the car until I reach 150,000 miles when my Torque Converter goes. I change the ATF fluid myself every 30K but I'm told that won't save the Torque Converter failure. Well, maybe I'm being too negative. I have bumped into those with 200 and even 300,000 miles , but I assume these are guys who do mostly highway driving types doing long distances everyday on their ZF Automatic Transmissions . Lucky for me, the main rebuild place for these cars with the upgraded Torque Converter is about an hour north of me - Erikkson Automotive. I even met the original Wally Erikkson who was first a SAAB Transmission guy when SAAB was headquartered in Orange CT. Regardless you only get a 1 year warranty. I think Bora offers a transmission for us with a 2 year warranty.

 

[auntulna]

For tranny mounts:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/transmission-mount-replacement-b5-vw-passat-and-audi/

 

[leicaman]

My two cents on water pumps. At 57k I had the balance shaft installed by Oilhammer along with a complete timing belt/water pump etc., kit. At 130k the water pump decided to start leaking unfortunately and I ended up having a TB kit installed by the dealer, who put in a VW composite water pump. So far so good. Here is a link to discussion on this topic:

http://www.blauparts.com/audi_water..._water_pump_plastic_impeller_controversy.html

 

[tdiblair]

Leicman

Do you remember if the water pump installed at 57,000 miles was OE or OEM. I'm' guessing Bora parts would package up more kits with O.E.M. parts although if you request I'm guessing he will offer O.E. too. World Impex is offering me OE Tranny Mounts for $93. I'm sure his OEM mount will be far less $., but for my Motor Mounts I'm taking VWZTIP's tip and going O.E. Motor Mounts do to modification that might not be found on the OEM parts. The definition between OE and OEM is not clear to me, but one on this forum once said " OE is better than OEM." Here is another attempt to define the difference http://www.epsparts.com/contents/show/OE-OEM-AFTERMARKET-DISCUSSION-PAGE When it takes that much writing, I'm not sure they have the definition either. I thinking I might as well follow though on the Tranny Mounts too. Here again, perhaps this new VW- O.E water-pump with the new impeller material , called PPS, from VW is the best we can hope for over a GRAFF or HEPU OEM pump? I realize there was a generation of these non metal impellers that were made of a different material did not do that well, but what is perfect?

Blair

 

[thundershorts]

Blair, the tc doesn't wear out/fail at any particular mileage, mine went South at about 80k. I'm about 3 years on an Erikkson one that works just fine. As far as the 1year warranty, I'd not worry about an Erikkson unit anyway.

 

[tdiblair]

Thundershorts.....you're not making my day with the 80K, but I assume this is the one weak spot in our ZF Auto's. I'm guessing @ 80K you just paid to have the tranny removed/ reinstalled with the ungraded Erikkson Torque Converter and not a whole tranny rebuild from them? Do you remember the warning signs or codes you get when the Torque Converter craps out and what exactly breaks on the stock TQ and what Erikkson does to 'upgrade' the TQ? I think our TQ's have a variable adjustment that overworks itself - especially if we are under 2500 RPM's when cruising. Often on the highway I see my RPM's are under 2500, so I move the shifter to the shift-tronic mode and drop the tranny to 4th gear instead of 5th. My 'assumption' is I'm stopping my TQ from hunting in it's variable ranges and that I'm stopping it from going in and out of it's modes - 'overworking itself' 1) by keeping the RPM's up and 2) by selecting a lower gear which will stop the TQ from overworking itself in it's 'variable' ability. Any logic to what I'm doing. I remember OilHammer saying something about 2500 RPM is the sweet spot and not below is a better place to be for the Torque Converter - but it's over my pay scale. I'm not sure how our TQ has this ability to be variable? I thought a TQ can only lock up with a band and then un-lock. I'm not sure what they can do beyond that simple lock/unlock step ....so I'm probably miss-representing OilHammers intended point.

Anything you remember as to the Codes I will get when my TQ goes or warning signs ...and comments about my staying in the Tip-Tronic mode? And the hours in the shop to replace the TQ?

Blair

Blair

 

[peiphil]

Blair your posts are very hard to read.
Try hitting the return button after each sentence or at least the end of each paragraph!
Thanks

 

[tdiblair]

Peiphil,

Are you saying my post to thundershorts was too long or just bad sentence structure or both? If so m better half will be on your side.

Blair

 

[peiphil]

Blair its just that I have went cross-eyed trying to read any of your long posts!
A persons eyes follow across a line and then get mixed up where the next line is starting.
Most stop reading and shake their head!
Not that we don't want to read your story but cant!

 

[tdiblair]

PEIPHIL

Good point. ...I looked at my post to Thundershorts......

I don't want to read it either.

Now I do it your way.

Blair

 

[thundershorts]

Blair, no problem reading your query as to tc's. Its quite possoble you are overthinking this issue as to tc wear/slippage. The classic code you'll get if it starts slipping is p0841, however you'll feel it before you get a code. The clutch linings of the tc clutch, not band, are very thin and when it wears through, it slips as the friction material is gone. people who continue driving past when this occurs risk contaminating the whole transmission with fine metal particles from steel against steel contact. I don't think you are helping conserve anything downgearing, and may have the opposite effect increasing trans temp. In my instance, I only drove about ten miles after it happened directly to a friends shop where I changed the tc. I had an Erikkson tc that I had traded a trans core, including tc, to them previously. They had picked up the cores and delivered the tc in exchange. The entire tc job cost me my time and 25 bucks contribution to the shops beer fund. This would probably not be the case for most people. I wasn't intending to alarm anyone mentioning the tc failure could occur at no predictable mileage and hope this explanation further expands the commentary on long winded,pompous silly sentence structure and answers some of your questions.

 

[tdiblair]

Thundershorts,

Sentence structure issues with you? Never! ..... Only technical accuracy and good advise over the years.

I do agree with Peiphil when I looked at my long post /questions to you.
Now I press 'enter' and attempt to break up the lines of typing for less eye strain. Non of us are getting younger here.
It was also good advice

Thanks for the TC Code and the warning signs if my TC day comes on both my Passats.

I realize all cars have their hidden issues and I still like my Passat diesels, but I'm beginning to appreciate my 98 Chevy V-8 Pickup more these days with chains instead of timing belts, a water pump with easy access and fairly robust transmission. Oil pump with no hex key issue. It's only flaw was a wiper motor seal and intake manifold gasket which took 10 years to develop. Maybe a gas hog, but that expense was off-set by a lack of repairs and every non and then it's just nice to floor it with a V-8.

Of course this truck was made before Obama took over GM. I often get the question - " what car do you think I should buy today?" I assume these multi gear transmission and move towards more electronic built in toys only gets worse. My search for a simple straight forward car without EPA mandated complicated emission crap and spindly 8 speed transmissions is getting hard to find.

thanks again & please note my greatly improved sentence blocking/spacing.

Blair