synchromesh safe for 02j?

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
just picked up three quarts of the valvoline MTF synchromesh today, gonna try it in my 02M when i swap it into my 05' golf... and yes the valvoline stuff meets vw specs for 02J and 02M ;)



 
Last edited:

Jesse_Boyer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
I'm all out...
I've used AC Delco friction modified synchromesh (note, not Amsoil, not Pennzoil, etc) in two different 02J's behind ALH's and it worked instantly to relieve issues I had when I ran VW fluids, both new and after a few miles on the VW fluid. One 02J was very difficult to shift between 1-2 if I'm not mistaken, after it was almost impossible to tell there was an issue with the AC Delco synchromesh.

Furthermore, I ran brand new Audi recommended fluid in my Allroad 01E trans (Audi quattro trans behind a 2.7tt) and it was almost impossible to shift without rev-matching. I swapped to $15+/qt Amsoil to try something different and it was almost worse, if that is possible. Swapping to AC Delco friction modified synchromesh has made the car very easy to drive. It's not slow-revving ALH easy to drive, but easy nonetheless.

Honestly, I wouldn't believe it if I didn't experience it. I have 3-liters of VW fluid on the shelf and that's where they'll stay, 100% guaranteed. Same with a half-used bottle of Amsoil synchromesh.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Jesse, I've had the same experience as you, but with the Pennzoil Synchromesh. I just drove to TDIFest and my 02J no reliably shifts between 5th and 4th without rev matching. And it hasn't made any noise on the 2/3 shift for weeks. Both were persistent problems with the G 070. I wonder what differences there are in the formulation/additives between the AC and Pennzoil products. But I'm very happy. So far it's saved me a transmission swap. Same for my son's Golf, which had a 1/2 shift grind.
 

3turboz

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Location
Tempe AZ USA
TDI
2000 Golf GL Wolfsberg
Sleet I know for a fact those stores carry synchromesh. Or thy can order it. You ran across a lazy employee.
I have been on the hunt for Penzoil synchromesh and have found that Oreiley's is phasing it out in favor of Valvoline synchromesh.
 
Last edited:

Jesse_Boyer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
I'm all out...
I tried Penn's version of Synchromesh and wasn't thrilled.

Swapping to this specifically helped immensely (note the "friction modified" designation)

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-GM-8...sr=1-2&keywords=friction+modified+synchromesh

I have had it in everything VW/Audi lately for nearly a decade. I don't know the difference between the standard Synchromesh, the FM Synchromesh, Amsoil Synchromesh, and OEM VW fluid, but I know every... single... manual transmission suddenly becomes easier to shift. If it had a problem, it either went away entirely or was 'muted,' less difficult to deal with.

(I seriously wouldn't waste my time posting this over and over if I didn't believe it. I don't even own a VW manual anymore (only Audi quattro manuals) and I still feel like posting this here. This stuff made a massive, noticable difference over EVERYTHING else. Amsoil, brand new OEM, etc.)
 
Last edited:

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Synchromesh may not work as well in a VW 6 Speed, 02Q. Different transmission than the older cars, different synchros, different materials.
 

ffemtp

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Location
SE WI
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS TDI Deceased 11/2012, 2004 Jetta GL TDI Sold, 2012 Jetta TDI (Retruned to VW), 2004 Jetta TDI GLS 5spd
I tried Penn's version of Synchromesh and wasn't thrilled.

Swapping to this specifically helped immensely (note the "friction modified" designation)

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-GM-8...sr=1-2&keywords=friction+modified+synchromesh

I have had it in everything VW/Audi lately for nearly a decade. I don't know the difference between the standard Synchromesh, the FM Synchromesh, Amsoil Synchromesh, and OEM VW fluid, but I know every... single... manual transmission suddenly becomes easier to shift. If it had a problem, it either went away entirely or was 'muted,' less difficult to deal with.

(I seriously wouldn't waste my time posting this over and over if I didn't believe it. I don't even own a VW manual anymore (only Audi quattro manuals) and I still feel like posting this here. This stuff made a massive, noticable difference over EVERYTHING else. Amsoil, brand new OEM, etc.)
I took a look at the link. Nowhere on the bottle does it state if it is a GL-4 or GL-5 fluid. I tried RedLine MTL-90 and found that it made the tranny (an O2J) notchy as all heck. Drained it. Refilled with the G060 VW tranny oil and all seems good again. I like the idea of synthetic oils as many on here do. I'd give the GM Synchromesh a try but want to somehow confirm GL-4 or GL-5 rating on it first.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
We show it as meeting GL-3 standards. And you either had Redline MTL or MT-90 in your car, those are different. The MTL does get notchy when warm, in my experience. MT-90 can be harder to shift when cold.
 

Jesse_Boyer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
I'm all out...
I took a look at the link. Nowhere on the bottle does it state if it is a GL-4 or GL-5 fluid. I tried RedLine MTL-90 and found that it made the tranny (an O2J) notchy as all heck. Drained it. Refilled with the G060 VW tranny oil and all seems good again. I like the idea of synthetic oils as many on here do. I'd give the GM Synchromesh a try but want to somehow confirm GL-4 or GL-5 rating on it first.
(this started off short, but ended up rather long.)

Just because something is or isn't GL-4/5/6 rated doesn't mean all is well/perfect. It means the fluid company has paid the testing entity to test their fluid and the fluid passed. Shear, viscosity, moisture retention, etc. It certainly doesn’t mean the fluid is going to make your transmission ‘happy’ if the trans is in less than brand-new OEM condition. I felt exactly the same way and that’s why I spent good money on top-of-the-line (so to speak) Amsoil fluid for my 6sp quattro trans.

This is GL-4 rated and approved for VW use based on that claim/designation. https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2077.pdf
I tried it twice. Once on an 02J in my ALH TDI and once on an 01E from my '02 S6 swapped to a manual (uses an '01 A6 manual trans.) Results... notchy, hard to shift. Swap to the FM Synchromesh and it shifts better. Both trans could have worn synchronisers and the FM is covering it up, but it’s literally the result I was after. Trans is still in the car and I’ve put about 10k miles on it (the 01E.)

Both Redline MTL and Redline MT-90 are GL-4 rated.
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-50304-Transmission-Transaxle/dp/B000CPCBEQ
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-Transmission-Transaxle-Lubricant/dp/B000CPCBEG
People have notoriously said the same about Redline's fluids; trans is hard to shift. (I have no personal experience with Redline's fluids.) Some people like them, some really don’t. (I’ve yet to read anyone who tried FM Synchromesh, didn’t like it, and went to a different fluid which they did like. I have at least five instances where I ran something initially, swapped to FM Synchromesh, and liked the improvement.)

I've literally used brand-new OEM VW fluid (circa 2012) as that was my first go-to on a particular '00 ALH 5-sp, but the trans with new OEM fluid was no different than whatever I took out. Swap to FM Synchromesh and its night/day difference. I was prepared to pull that trans out and put in new synchros. Also, I dropped the fluid in the ALH TDI after a few thousand miles as I was worried about wear on the synchros, etc and put it right back in the trans. Fluid looked like new, shifted perfectly, and didn’t have any copper/gold looking filings I was worried about.

Lastly, maybe the OEM fluid, Redline, Amsoil, etc all work extremely well when the trans is new, but once the trans wears a bit, specifically the synchros, it’s harder to shift and those particular fluids didn’t cut it anymore. Fact is, on MULTIPLE different occasions and two different platforms, the 02J FWD and 01E Quattro trans specifically, the FM Synchromesh saved me from pulling two transmissions apart for synchros. It literally made that much difference.

Lastly x2... I'm an engineer. Engineers often don't put the absolute best product in their designs for lots of reasons. Be it fluids, plastic parts which may fail in the future because machined billet is expensive, maybe a popular supplier knows the project manager and you "need" to use this because he sponsors the company retreat, etc. Pick one, it happens ALL the time. Sometimes it's a design/calc error, sometimes I have to use something off the shelf that does-the-job with less than perfect results (perhaps GL-4 is the 'standard' VW/Audi had to use at the time, sometimes a bean-counter tells me I'm too expensive. Fact is, once you get to the aftermarket, you SHOULD use what WORKS if the factory stuff doesn't work as well. Friction Modified Synchromesh works, has given me literally zero adverse side effects, and it's not an isolated case. IndigoBlueWagon posted the same about a year ago and he's a vender who sells fluid. I doubt he sells FM Synchromesh.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I've seen dramatic improvements from notchy gearboxes when refilled with the standard Pennzoil syncromesh as well. Never tried the GM version.
 

boertje

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2002
Location
Coeur d'Alene, ID
TDI
'01, '01, '03, ‘06 NB - TDIs all.
Had G 070 in my 02J and all was well. Did a clutch job and replaced the trans oil at the same time to a recommended Liqui Moly GL4+ that meets G 050. After 2000 miles I have developed a 1 to 2 high rpm crunch and the beginnings of a grind from 4 to 3 and also the shift feels notchy. Dumped the oil and replaced with pennzoil synchromesh. No more notchy and the crunch and grind are gone. Used the same oil in an 02M that had a grind from 4 to 3 which has been fine for 25k miles.
 

3turboz

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Location
Tempe AZ USA
TDI
2000 Golf GL Wolfsberg
Good report so far on the Valvoline Synchromesh. Took about 5 miles to get rid of 1-2 grind and has stayed gone for 800 miles. Will report back if that changes.

Funny thing is that it never had the grind. Then it sat for a couple weeks while I did a TB and water pump ( I was sick during that time and did not feel like working on the car much.) Then when I got the car back on the road the gears clashed on the 1-2 shift.

I figured I altered the adjustment on the cables while jacking the engine up and down, so the first thing I tried was a shifter adjustment. That initially helped, but the grind would return when the car got up to temp. I would avoid by moving the shift lever in the neutral gate as if coming from 3-2, and it would not grind.

Changing to the Syrchromesh oil has restored normal shifting.
 

52172

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Location
Buellton, Ca
TDI
2001 Golf TDI GLS
Im switching from Redline Mt90 to syncromesh with ms02 for gears added next week will update on difference.
 

DuraBioPwr

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Location
Eastern Washington
TDI
2004 BEW Jetta (5spd)
Yup its good stuff. iIhad Ravenol Synthetic GL4 in it until I got a 2-3 grind. Swapped over to cheapo synchromesh from oreillys and no more grind. Works good in the winter too with a cold soaked tranny.
 
Top