Subframe repair

[oldpoopie]

Well, today started out nicely. Beautiful weather, and a nice day planned doing maintance on my tdi. I had planned on replacing the passenger front wheelbearing, both ball joints, and the a-arm rubber bushings with poly ones. I should have known something was happening when the ball-joints didnt show up. Anyway, I proceeded to remove the drivers side a-arm. It was pretty easy, and I pressed in new eurethane bushings that were significantly stiffer. I then tried to remove the passenger side a-arm. There are 2 bolts. One that threads vertically with a nut on the top, and the other that threads horozontally with a captive nut within the a-arm. I removed the vertical one with no problem. Then I went to remove the horozontal one and it just spun and spun. I soon realized that there was no way for me to stop the nut from spinning with the subframe in-situ, so I removed it. Upon removal I realized that there was no repairing it without cutting the subframe open. Luckily I have a friend who is an excellent welder. Timing was good there and he was home when I called. We took the subframe to his shop where we cut a panel open in the subframe, tacked the nut in place, and closed the panel back up again. The nut looks like it was never tacked in the first place, and that it came loose on its own. At any rate, here are some pics. I dont have a pic of the finished piece unfortunately.

access panel cut

Access panel heated

bent back, nut visable.

Nut removed, no evidence of old tack weld

nut, also no evidence of old tack weld

And finally the nut welded in place, to never come off again.

I forgot to get shots of the "hatch" welded shut again. I'll try and do that tomorrow. It looks pretty good and I think will be plenty strong.

After I got in the accident a year ago, they replaced the a-arm on that side. I think when they did so, they tightened the nut down too much, and it broke free of whatever was holding it in place. At least now I wont have to worry.

 

[oldpoopie]

fixed pics.

 

[TDI-NEVER-DIE]

I'm just glad you were able to get it fixed. This is just an example of how those guys that fixed the car did not do their job.. those clowns..
thanks for posting the detailed pics.. i'm sure it will help someone else down the road.. good thing is, she is back on the road...

 

[brothersnag]

Was a little worried

Wanted to install poly control arm bushings and changed out the ball joints also (cost effective and became damaged). Things went great on the passenger side using the top ball joint nut to pop it loose. But the Driver side was bad. Using the BJ nut off didn't pop the tapered shaft. Removed the rotor to get a better angel with the pickel fork. only to discover that the front most control arm bolt was only spinning Via untacked subframe nut (viewable from a small drain hole ) I had hit something at 1 point making the subframe the fold back and upward at that control arm bolts location

 

[AlanTDI]

sub frame

I think I have the same problem.
Is the rack connected to the sub frame?
and is the removal of sub frame straight forward?
thanks
Alan

 

[ta79pr]

very impressive oxy cutting.

 

[jasonTDI]

That's not oxy cutting. That a blade. The only torch use was to heat the metal and bend it back.

I actually see a lot of supposed welded bolt that were never done. Especially the sway bar bushing nut.

 

[AlanTDI]

How about just drilling a hole in the sub frame just large enough to reverse the bolt and nut positions?
Put the bolt in through the sub frame and the nut after the front "A" arm bushing housing.

 

[Franko6]

I've used those kinds of 'spot weld' nuts before for blind hole applications. Either they didn't have their voltage turned up enough or the metal was oily when they put the juice to it.

In any case, once it leaves the factory, it's the mechanic's problem... eh?

 

[ludikris]

i was gonna post a picture but if you look at the one of the bottom side, you'll notice a hole there. I used that hole to re-tack the nut in place. No problems now.

thanks to yuri for making me think about it more...

 

[oldpoopie]

Tried that on mine, but there was no way to reach the nut and get it in the right spot.

 

[Thermo1223]

Nice fix, was that the fire truck accident that caused your a-arm to get replaced?

 

[oldpoopie]

Nope, I was just trying to replace the a-arm bushings. Long before the accident.

 

[Powder Hound]

i was gonna post a picture but if you look at the one of the bottom side, you'll notice a hole there. I used that hole to re-tack the nut in place. ...

So, are you saying you might be able to tack it down without cutting the subframe? With careful use of a flux-core wire in a squirt gun maybe?

 

[ludikris]

always a wise guy after someone posts a HUGE time / money saving tip....

drill the hole bigger if necessary, insulate the edge, plug in a good light to see the nut, rest a basic flux core based welder on the edge of the hole and fire till it's locked nice and tight... and do it before you unlock the bolt to ensure problem free Re and Re..

I don't know why you couldn't see the nut, it was as plain as day and I didn't have to cut my frame what so ever.

btw.. you can use your squirt gun if you want to cool off the metal right away.

 

[ssgacc]

common problem on my Audi and VW products

best solution is to burn the nut if you have or have access to a welder. that said, i usually cut a small (just big enough to get a box wrench or vise grips) in the sub frame. done it several times already, including dorf products. not really a problem unless you make a huge hole. rewelding the plug is nice, although not really necessary IMHO. unless you cut a huge hole.

 

[ludikris]

yah.. this nut is tough to grab at all... welding it is the only way.

 

[craig01b]

Well, with no welder available in my garage, and the bolt was loose. (interesting torque steer if you drive it in that condition...eeek) I drilled a hole, and managed to get a 1/2 of a small set of water pump pliers(good teeth) into the hole, and used the floor jack to tension the plier 1/2. Jammed it enough so I could retighten the bolt. Took some long thought and staring under the car to figure out how to jam it, its a nice round nut...!##$@$%

Craig

 

[merkerguitars]

I had the same problem when doing my control arm bushings. Went to tap the control arm bolt in and heard the nut go "plink" inside the subframe, about 5 minutes with a cutoff wheel and found a same thread nut and was fixed.

 

[ludikris]

there is no need to cut anything.. borrow my welder if you want.. takes 2 mins.. your done.

 

[CarlUman]

Yea, frickn round nut. They could have at least welded them in place good enough they wouldn't break lose grrrr! Had to cut and weld also. Thanks for posting the idea... not that I hadn't thought of it but knowing that someone else actually done it makes a big difference

 

[Havokk]

Nice work

 

[TonganDiesel]

Thanks for this post. I just completed this procedure to my Jetta today. In the process I found out that only 3 bolts hold the subframe. One of the front subframe bolt fell off. I do know how long ago this happen.

Anyway, this post really help me out.

 

[TDi for 2]

Add me to the list!

there is no need to cut anything.. borrow my welder if you want.. takes 2 mins.. your done.

Just ran into this problem yesterday on '00 Jetta. I don't weld so I might have to remove the subframe and take it somewhere. Do you go in the hole at the bottom where one of the panzer rivnuts is? Can it be done with the car on jackstands or should I reassemble everything, bring the car to a shop then take it all apart again to replace the LCA bushings that brought on the whole problem? TIA

 

[TDi for 2]

Thanks for this post. I just completed this procedure to my Jetta today. In the process I found out that only 3 bolts hold the subframe. One of the front subframe bolt fell off. I do know how long ago this happen.

Anyway, this post really help me out.

What else needs to be removed before taking off the subframe? It looks like I've got this job ahead of me since the PS front LCA bolt is spinning freely. Thanks.

 

[davebugs]

4 bolts hold wha toln most cars is called teh K frame.

Basically the fourthest 2 back that you can see have washers on them.

The front 2 you actually come up thru the LCA towards the engine.

New - what you do or don't do with the steering rack n stuff is up to you.

I jst removed the whole assy doing aprtout this week. If a pick of the whole front suspension setting on the floor does you any good PM me.

 

[TDi for 2]

4 bolts hold wha toln most cars is called teh K frame.

Basically the fourthest 2 back that you can see have washers on them.

The front 2 you actually come up thru the LCA towards the engine.

New - what you do or don't do with the steering rack n stuff is up to you.

I jst removed the whole assy doing aprtout this week. If a pick of the whole front suspension setting on the floor does you any good PM me.

Davebugs,
Thanks for the quick reply but my main question was in regards to what else besides the LCA's is attached to the K-frame that needs to be removed in order to get it repaired?

 

[Nuje]

I have that question as well. I went and pulled a sub-frame from a wreck at the local boneyard ($120) instead of dealing with cutting/welding holes in my (already well-rusted) subframe.

So, if I pull those four bolts (easy enough), what becomes of the steering rack that (I think?) bolts into the subframe from the top? And, I'm assuming those are single-use TTY bolts, right? Anyone have part numbers on those?

 

[davebugs]

Sorry for the typing guys.

When my LCA nut spun someone else was doing the work.

He was swapping 01m's and we just did it all.

I literally couldn't move much after being hit in an accident. Second trip to the grocery store my 01m died and left me on the RR tracks!

So I don't recall what he did with the rack.

I just parted a car and since I had ABS and brake lines already undone I disconnected the rack inside at the bottom of the steering column.

Dropped K frams and LCA's and struts, even hubs and calipers and rotors all at one time.

You may have already undone your BJ's and stuff so that may mak eit easier.

 

[cencarnacion]

I had the same problem happen to me. Was horrified but was able to overcome with a relatively simple procedure using a magnet pickup tool and a harbor freight pick and hook tool. See my post in thread below. Hope you get lucky as I did.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=347778&page=2