Sticking brakes! 2013 JSW TDI

[HightowerExp]

Hey all, first post here unfortunately its because im have some issues...

The rear brakes (mainly driver side) on my 2013 Sportwagon TDI, are sticking bad.. mileage has dropped 10 mpg-ish, and they are really emitting quite a bit of heat.. so obviously the brakes are sticking, but I cant find the reason...

I had to get an oil change so i asked the dealer if they could take a look. and they said that it just needs new pads and the caliper sliders Greased. so went to ID parts and ordered the pads with the necessary bolts for the brake change... took the wheel off and everything looks fine, reluctantly Greeced the caliper pins as they looked flawless and put it back together with new pads...

after doing the pads, it seemed to be better getting normal mileage and less heat and now a couple days later its back to sticking. took the center console apart to see if there was a bias in the cables showing a stuicky cable or something and from what i could see they were dead even...

im assuming now its the calipers?

anyone have a similar experience or any helpful info?

Thanks!

 

[axnels2]

not sure about mk6, but mk5 had an issue with emergency brake cable been adjusted too tight from the factory... There is a painful process of readjusting it by removing a center console....

 

[HightowerExp]

yeah i sure hope its not the parking brake adjust, i went to loosen it myself but after an hour of taking the console apart i gave up. with all the covers off and the "skeleton" exposed i could still only see one of the cables. I felt around enough to determine they were pulling the same amount but was way to much of an undertaking to get the rest apart.

 

[axnels2]

If your car under warranty why are you messing with it? Let the dealer fix it for you.

 

[OilBurningBrit]

Are you already out of warranty?

 

[HightowerExp]

because the pads, rotors and hand brake adjustment are not covered under warranty. dealer wanted $340 to do the pads and rotors! so thats why i did thoes myself.

Ive narrowed it down to the caliper pistons or the parking brake needs to be loosened. im scheduling to bring it into the dealer tomorrow now cause caliper is covered, and I know ill brake something trying to get at the parking brake adjust...

 

[aeronca]

Mine seized the right rear at about 20k miles. After cooling down the caliper freed up. Dealer unable to fix or reproduce. No further problems, after another 15k miles. It's just an unadvertised feature, I think.

 

[ihatespeed]

its your pistons

Ok, mine had a similar problem, only the passenger side though, I did rotors and pads, adjusted the parking brake, exercised the caliper a half dozen times and replaced the flex hose going to it. I tried using the parking brake all the time, I tried only applying and releasing it with the brakes on, and I tried never using it. the punch line, randomly it would hang up and I would be greeted with stinky brake and hot wheel when I stopped.

The solution was this, caliper rebuild. kit is 5-6 dollars, or a rebuilt caliper is about 80. take the caliper off, use the parking brake lever to ratchet the piston out all the way, being careful not to cock it in the bore wiggle/ pull it out, you might cut the dust boot to make it easier I found mine cocked and a few light taps with a mallet to straighten it out had it right out.

I polished the rust from the very end of the bore (on the dust boot side of the piston seal, replaced all the easy to swap parts in the kit, and gave it a healthy coat of grease hopefully keep any further corrosion at bay. You need a tool to replace the piston, it has to be threaded in as you push it into the bore. That was a few months ago, and everything seems to be working just great. mileage is as good as ever, and no more hot rotor.

trying to bleed the system was fail city until I found my little vacuum pump (mityvac) and sucked the air out.

Hope that helps, and maybe you can beat up the dealer tell them the pins are free and its the piston dust boot that failed, totally not normal wear and tear.

BTW, very easy to see if your parking brake is adjusted correctly, look at the backs of the calipers, if the parking brake levers are on the stops or less than 3mm away it is good enough, factory spec is 1-3mm clearance from the stop screw.

Don't feel bad, this whole process took me foooooorrrrrever.

 

[Digilio86]

I can hear a slight drag in my rear brakes. It seems to be a common issue. I was recently at a dealer looking at the new mk7 when a mk6 to drove by slow. I could hear it emitting the same dragging noise. Wonder how much it's affecting my fe.

 

[HightowerExp]

hey ihatespeed, thanks for that wright up.

took it into the dealer, and of course they drove it around for most of the morning and couldent replicate the problem. and not parking brake adjust..

so im guessing im haveing the same problem as you...

right now its good but i know its going to be coming back, but unfortunately im leaving tomarrow for a 5500+ road trip :0

where did you happen to purchase the "caliper rebuild. kit" and does anyone have a good source for the one time used caliper mounting bolts both the 13mm and triple square?

 

[bjudd4]

Same problem

This sounds like the same problem I have been having with my '12 JSW TDI (6spd man.) since pretty much day one. I posted about it looking for advice on vwvortex quite a while back: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5928191-JSW-Rear-Brakes-Hanging-Up

The dealer has adjusted the parking brake cables several times, and even replaced both rear calipers, rotors, and pads under warranty for me since I managed to get the car there when it was doing it. Even with all of this; the rear brakes STILL frequently stick to the point where you can smell the burning brakes and cannot even touch the wheel because it is so hot. It's always only one side or the other, never both. I am at a loss as to what could be causing this. I had suspected a glitch in the hill assist function which holds the brakes until you step off the clutch and onto the throttle, but I'm thinking now that that is not the case. I am thinking about replacing both of the parking brake return springs on the calipers, as the service manager indicated the new calipers they installed would not have come with them. Maybe the springs are just weak and not allowing the parking brake to fully disengage.

I see you are in upstate NY. What dealer have you been using? VW of Rome for me. I was happy that they approved new pads and rotors, as I don't think many dealers would have been as generous. I did have to ask, but they didn't give me a hard time about it. They also did the parking brake adjustments under warranty. Granted, I bought the car (and multiple others) there and have a good relationship with them, so that helps probably.

 

[ihatespeed]

I got the kit from rock auto

 

[atsffan]

I can hear a slight drag in my rear brakes. It seems to be a common issue. I was recently at a dealer looking at the new mk7 when a mk6 to drove by slow. I could hear it emitting the same dragging noise. Wonder how much it's affecting my fe.

A very slight drag with disc brakes is common. But if you jack up the rear end, block the front tires, and release the parking brake, you should still be able to rotate the rear wheels with little effort.
A dragging brake pad is very easy to sense - the wheel won't rotate more than about 1/4 to maybe a half turn before grinding to a stop.

And as mentioned above, you will be able to feel the heat coming off the rotor and smell the pads burning if they're dragging more than they should.

Richard

 

[ezshift5]

..a recent 20,000 service shows front pads at 11mm/rears at 7mm.

At what point do I consider rear pad R &R. Is new pad depth 13 mm?

TIA, ez

 

[meerschm]

Bentley manual says rear pads new are 11 mm. minimum service is 2 mm

front new are 14 mm, 2mm minimum, and at 4 mm, a light should come on.

 

[ezshift5]

Tks, Mike.

ez (IOU one)

 

[nozel]

Just got to thinking if every thing is free and clean, maybe a very long shot,
Is hill hold acting up?

 

[mikewest]

I wanted to add some notes based on a recent experience I had (2012 TDI JSW, 45K mi)
- brakes sounded funny a couple times while out running errands. a bit squeaky.
- returned home to find left, rear disc glowing orange hot. It smelled too
- the next day, I jacked the car up an found the left rear wheel hard to turn. right rear was fine (in my mind, this rules out the e-brake cable being too tight)
- decided to replace the rear pads, assuming that much heat was a bad thing
- with e-brake fully released it was *very* hard to get the left rear caliper off

My theory is that the brake piston had 'overadjusted' somehow?

I cleaned everything up and reset the pistons (with the proper tool) on both sides

After a few days, everything is fine. but I'm going to jack the rear up weekly and keep checking.

[update]
A couple weeks later and the problem has returned. Smoke/heat/smell from left rear. I jacked the car up and am unable to turn the left rear wheel. Right rear turns fine. e-brake is released and I feel slack in the line. So for some reason, the piston is stuck/closed on the disc. I'd like to bleed/drain the left rear, but the maintenance guide says I have to do left front, right front before I can do left rear.

There are several complaints on the NHTSA. I submitted a complaint on their site: http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Owners I've seen enough forum entries and complaints to realize this is not an isolated problem.

 

[mikewest]

Split e-brake housing?

Dealer just told me my e-brake cable housing is 'split'. I brought the car in for an oil change while I was activating my 'customer loyalty' TDI card. Coincidentally, the cable repair cost was estimated at just about $500 (loyalty card amount) minus the oil change.

Sigh.

 

[ihatespeed]

If you look at the parking brake lever on teh back of the caliper and it is resting within a couple mm of the stops, your cable is probably fine, test this by aplying the parking brake fully and releasing, then see if the lever returns to just off the stop.

 

[Wilkins]

I had a similar problem with my 2010.
Right rear brake stuck on just enough to barely notice while driving. Disc and wheel got hot enough to melt the plastic wheel cap out!
Parking brake cable was loose- normal rest on stop
Cranked piston back in as if I was replacing pads- very stiff - Worked for a week or so then stuck again
Cranked piston back in and tested. Initially brake stuck then after a couple of iterations the adjuster loosened up and wheel spin ok by hand after pushing either brake pedal or hand brake- after another week it seized again! After it seized cranking back was really stiff.

Ordered new caliper from German OEM - best price plus prompt delivery, but still a week.

Got really good at removing caliper, resetting, etc., down to 8 minutes, while waiting for caliper- to no avail.
Installed new caliper, bled using traditional methods, no further problems- it's been about three months now.

Tried to take old caliper apart- no way! Piston screwed part way out then jammed and won't go in or out. I'm not going to risk breaking tools to see what happened! Suspicious that root cause was too much force on handbrake lever, which damaged threads on adjuster mechanism.

 

[Caballo]

Rear brakes seizing

Replaced rear pads and rotors eight months ago. Left pad worn to nothing and right pad 50%. Thought it was odd. New pads were fine though heard occasional grinding noise when reversing. Was leaving soon though for a fair length of time so just parked it in the garage. When I returned, there was initially some noise from the brakes while driving but it disappeared. Noticed fluid coming dripping out from under engine after first driving but it was clear and seemed to be water, which I was unable to pinpoint exactly where it was coming from and it soon stopped. Made a long drive. Hit a large bump on highway where the road lifted up...no signs to slow down. ABS light came on. Ten hours later am at destination. Put on parking brake, which I rarely use or need. Short drive next day and left rear brake stinks and is hot. Take it home and check the pads and rotor and so forth. Calliper pin has pads pushed tight. Using proper tool, rotate the pin back in and try brakes. Same problem. Eventually change out calliper. Bleed brakes. Pin still pushing pads tight to rotor. Notice same thing on other side. Already took off PB cable so this not the issue. Occurs whether engine is on or not. That is, tried pushing pin in and then using brakes without engine or key on to see if ABS causing it. They still both bind up in the rear.

 

[NorthernFirepower]

I'm digging up the dead here in hopes of getting some better insight.

I had a similar problem with my 2010.

Ordered new caliper from German OEM - best price plus prompt delivery, but still a week.

Got really good at removing caliper, resetting, etc., down to 8 minutes, while waiting for caliper- to no avail.
Installed new caliper, bled using traditional methods, no further problems- it's been about three months now.

Tried to take old caliper apart- no way! Piston screwed part way out then jammed and won't go in or out. I'm not going to risk breaking tools to see what happened! Suspicious that root cause was too much force on handbrake lever, which damaged threads on adjuster mechanism.

Most useful info I have seen on this parkng brake issue so far! OEM caliper on my Rear left was locking up since I purchased the car recently (no warranty = no dealership help)

Replaced with Napa caliper (reman Bosch) and replacement had bad parking brake seal upon install.

Replaced Again with another Napa caliper and brake works fine via hydraulics but handbrake causes the piston to lock and not release. First I checked cable to ensure it wasn't tight then left cable off and found that HB locked with just pulling by hand.

I opened bleeder to ensure there wasn't line pressure causing HB to lock. So now I'm loosing my mind, does it sound logical that the second reman caliper is bad??? Not sure where to turn, for time being I have tied the left HB cable up disconnected as right caliper is working fine.

 

[jesus_man]

I'm digging up the dead here in hopes of getting some better insight.

x2 - ran into this on my commute this am. Stopped at an intersection waiting on a left turn and them smelled the smell of HOT brakes. Pulled over praying it was someone else, but it was not. Driver rear radiating heat big time! Felt slack in the e-brake handle. I moved the car back and forth trying to help free it up and then had a deadline to get the kids to school, so went on about my commute to carpool. Once I got back home, the assembly had cooled down a lot, so it fixed itself and no more slack in the handle. But I suspect it will be back.

Cause seems to be corrosion on the caliper bore? Does it thread in? Seems the e-brake works by simply applying the brakes just as the pedal does?

Fix is caliper replacement or rebuild?

 

[DrGERTol]

@jesus_man : We had a similar experience with our '11 wagon this summer & the driver side parking brake actuator/lever. After pulling the entire center console out to get at the hand brake adjustment nut, it was obvious the left cable wasn't returning to the "off" position. The next step was pulling the wheel and exercising the parking brake actuator lever with liberal application of WD40 and spray silicone grease so the lever returned to its rest position with the hand brake lever released. Now we try to exercise the hand brake regularly to ensure the rear caliper actuation levers both move freely. --g

 

[jesus_man]

@DrGERTol

I am hoping it's not the hand brake mechanism. It could be tho. I did actuate the hand brake by hand at the caliper this am and it seems to be freely moving. I put some penetrating oil spray where the arm pivots on the back of the caliper hoping to buy myself some time. I use my hand brake every day as I don't like relying on the parking mechanism within the DSG, or any auto for that matter. I will try to make time for a closer inspection this weekend if I can finish up another project.

In the meantime, watching this video on the caliper rebuild process:

 

[borninabus]

at this point in a JSW lifespan, i would try a good bleed of the affected wheel and a full fluid flush including the VCDS process for the ABS module before i got too worked up about stuck cables or calipers.

reading the new posts now.....my wagon had some cables that were close to seizing when i bought it and i still hear the sound sometimes when it's "cold". so that's definitely a thing. super easy to check and exercise though.

never in a million years would i "core" my OE caliper for some ****ty reman or aftermarket unit. the rebuild kit is the way and is easily doable for an average DIYer. R&Ring the damn thing is harder than cleaning up the bore/piston & fitting new seals.

YMMV

 

[jesus_man]

That's a good point. Have wanted to do a full flush anyway as I don't believe it's been done for 50k miles or so. Now...to make the time!

 

[Wilkins]

I had a similar problem several years ago. In my case it was the handbrake mechanism in the brake caliper. Initially the right brake would stick lightly for a short while then suddenly free itself after multiple actuations of the brake lever. Then the problem progressed and the brake stayed stuck lightly on. The only way I could free it was to take the caliper off and wind back the adjustment device as if I was fitting new pads. Next brake application it stuck again.
After fitting a new caliper I tried to disassemble the old one to see what had happened but the adjustment screw wouldn’t come out and totally jammed. I sheared the set screw in my windback tool trying.
IIRC this is a known issue with the mk6 VW caliper caused by over enthusiastic application of hand brake. I suspect that causes galling on the power screw which operates the handbrake and brake adjustment. This has nothing to do with the hydraulics, the obvious symptom is the brake cable not returning. I think this is also different than the mk4 brake adjuster issue where external corrosion in the seal at the end of the device causes it to stick. That problem can be fixed by cleaning and lubricating the seal.

 

[jesus_man]

Are you talking about the piston seal or the area where the e-brake arm attaches?