stick with G52 in your tranny - here's why...

JP123

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Location
Denmark
TDI
1999 Passat Sedan, 1.9TDI AFN
Glad to hear that you are happy with the Motul Gear 300 14.0 cSt, since im going to put in Castrol TAF-x Viscosity 14.4 sCt @ 100C.
http://www.uleiauto.ro/phpeuri/oiluri/castrol/TAF-X.pdf

-think that i´ll be happy with it since it gets cold here in the winters.

SUNRG said:
LOL - this is sooo true. my shifting was fine and fuel economy very good but here i am tinkering...

i can't help myself though!! :D

honestly - i've decided i really like the 14.0 cSt Motul Gear 300 that's in now!!!
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
Followed till the end

Well I have read every single post on this thread, and thought I would "chip in" with my own little experience.

I used to have a 98 Golf IV TDI 110 cv, that had the 2nd gear crunch ever since it had the gearbox removed for some noise at 24000km. Didnt happen all the time, but i never got it to go well really, a bit notchy in 2nd gear specially in cold (between 0ºC and 15ºC). Ended up using the VW gear oil G052726A2 which helped a lot(mineral I believe), and sold the car at that.

Now I have a brand new 2007 Audi A3 sportback with 2.0 140cv with a 6 speed manual gearbox. Was always notchy in second (identical feeling to the Golf), but just slightly, since it was new, I complained until I got the gearbox replaced at 10.000km. It went really well, and gear shifting was great with the new gearbox. At 40.000km had the dual mass flywheel replaced due to some noise when turning ignition off. After getting the car back with the new DMFW, the notchiness came back, and has been there ever since. Now the car has 49.000km, and the gearshift mechanism has been realigned over 15 times (by me, fine tuned to perfection... and I must say that adjustment does make a difference, but doesnt eliminate the problem). Now It still feels a little notchy in second and a little in third at 12-15ºC (even more in third than in second), still havent tried it on a really cold morning, but i guess it should be worse. Went to the dealer, to the parts guy, gave him my chassis number and he told me that the factory fitted gear oil my car used was the VW G052171A2. Had the clutch replaced 4000km ago to see if it got better (all this in warranty by the way).

A friend that is a mechanic, told me that audi and vw gearboxes have a "floating" primary shaft (translated), that spins freely, as oil is cold, and thicker, the secondary shaft beats the oil around which in turn, moves the floating primary shaft and pushes it to rotate (it should be stationary, hence the crunch when cold). Once it is warm, the oil is less dense, and doesnt offer resistance to motion of either of the shafts...hence primary is stationary and shifts are smooth (does this make sense?)
Now I am waiting to take it to the dealer on friday to have him check the pendulum support and engine & gearbox mount alignment (as adviced by a vw audi Expert I got hold of).
Mentioned the extra fill up through the reverse switch hole to the Audi exper, and he said that it might help in some cases, that it would be worth the try to add another 200ml.
This is my experience. Will keep you updated as from next week when i get the car back.
 
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fitzski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Uh... hmm... Well, none...
As it's been mentioned that VAG gear oils are rebranded Fuchs products, here is a cross-reference:
http://www.fuchs-europe.de/gear-oils-cars.html

Not sure why there are overlapping part number references for the same product, though perhaps they are just updates as the Fuchs product formulation changes over the years.

TITAN SINTOFLUID FE SAE 75W
Synthetic, fuel-economy manual transmission fluid offering increased gearbox efficiency in passenger cars due to low viscosity level. Reduces fuel consumption and offers best cold start behaviour. Suitable as fill for life fluid according to manufacturer.

API GL-4

VW TL 521 78 (G 052 178 A2)
VW TL 525 12 (G 052 512 A2)
VW TL 726 (G 052 726 A2/G 055 726 A2/G 060 726 A2/G 070 726 A2)
***
TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80
Synthetic manual transmission fluid for passenger cars. Offering good gearbox efficiency. Good cold start behaviour. Suitable as fill for life fluid according to manufacturer.

API GL-5

VW 501 50 (G 005 000 05/G 005 000/G 005 000 20/G 052 911 A1/A2)
VW TL 521 71 (G 052 171 A1/A2)
***
TITAN SINTOPOID FE SAE 75W-85
Fully-synthetic, fuel-economy passenger car axle fluid offering increased gearbox efficiency in passenger cars due to low viscosity level. Reduces fuel consumption and offers best cold start behaviour. Suitable as fill for life fluid according to manufacturer.

API GL-5
MB-APPROVAL 235.7
ZF TE-ML 18

VW TL 521 45-X (G 052 145 A1)
VW TL 521 90 (G 052 190 A2/G 055 190 A2)
Here was the most recent list compiled by Andy (though I've stripped all but the VW fluids):
AndyH said:
VI Vis@40C Vis@100C
..............15.6 = VW G50/G51
.... 76.6 .. 14.2 = VW G052 911
.... 31.2 .. 6.5 = VW G 052 171 A2 GL-?
.... 35.1 .. 6.4 = VW G 055 726 A2 GL-?
..............6.3 = VW G52 (part numbers G 052 726 A2/G 052 726 A1) GL-?
 
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passat130

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Passat Estate Sport 130
After confusing myself after reading most of this thread.

6 speed manual PD TDI 130.

should i use G52 or redline MTL?
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
The GO-52 and GO-55 fluids are the approx viscosity of a synthetic ATF (but with a GL-4 additive chemistry), at 100C. It's fair to assume they are also much thinner than a 75w-90 gear lube at cold temps. Even Redline MTL is ~ 10.0 Cst @100C, which is about 50% thicker than these two OEM fluids.

TS
 

passat130

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Passat Estate Sport 130
So far i'm thinking i'll go with the G0-52 then? as reccomended by VW themselves? its going to be thinner in every temp range compared to my original factory stuff (now covered 171,000 miles) which means better less notchy shifting I hope
 

l_c

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Location
San Jose, CA USA
TDI
Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
There were about five different G052 part numbers given above.
Yeah, it's confusing all right.
Larry
 

passat130

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Passat Estate Sport 130
i'm getting my gear oil changed next week to sort 2nd/3rd gear crunch hopefully. Will keep the old stuff (171k) and get it lab tested. Also going to keep the bottle from new stuff and will post it up here if anyones interested?
 

robnitro

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Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Location
NYC area, NY
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI GLS silver
I'm not sure if they sell it in the UK, but Pennzoil synchromesh is less thick than the Redline MTL, and does wonders. It turned my friend's older BMW that specified ATF from a crunchy crapbox into a smooth shifting tranny. He was thinking the synchros were shot on his old tranny, but it was the fluid!

I also use synchromesh and have no complaints, even in the cold winter days!
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
The issue with most syncromesh fluids is that they don't provide an API/GL-4 level of transmission gear protection. For example the Amsoil 5w-30, syncromesh fluid is an API/GL-1 type chemistry. The other syncromesh fluids I've seen are similar additive chemistries. These fluids are more like shear stable, fortified engine oils rather than conventional gear lubes.

I would not use a syncromesh fluid in an earlier VW/Audi transaxle that specifically calls for a GL-4.
 

robnitro

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Location
NYC area, NY
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI GLS silver
I see what you mean TooSlick. The one thing that bugs me about the official G52 oil is that it is super thin too, plus how do we know it is really GL-4?
Perhaps a syncromesh fluid with some AW additives would be the best compromise?
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Rob,

Since the VW engine is mounted transversely, their manual transaxles don't use hypoid gears (this is not true of the Audi layouts). The gears all rotate in parallel axes and the resultant gear tooth contact loads are fairly low.

VW has gone to very thin fluids in their transaxles in the quest to optimize fuel efficiency - these fluids provide about a 1% savings in comparison to a 75w-90 synthetic.

I've been an Amsoil dealer for many years, but if I lived in a very cold climate I'd probably go with the Redline "MTL" for this App. It's as thin as a syncromesh fluid (~10 Cst @100C), but provides a GL-4 level of gear/bearing protection.

TS
 

robnitro

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Location
NYC area, NY
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI GLS silver
I've used the Redline MT-90, which is a 75w90. It was horrible in cold temperatures, synchros felt very notchy. MTL was a bit better, but still not as good as OEM synthetic or the Syncromesh fluid.

If our transmissions don't use hypoid gears, how come they can't use synchromesh fluid- which works well in corvettes and other high powered GM cars?
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
For all I know, the new G-52 is a syncromesh fluid of some sort; you could tell by doing an oil analysis to see if it contains sulfur-phosphorus additives.

TS
 

robnitro

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Location
NYC area, NY
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI GLS silver
Hmm, what would indicate if it is a GL4 fluid? Tons of Mg, P, and Zn

GM Synchromesh Blackstone virgin oil sample reading

E/P VOA
Al 3
Cr 0
Fe 7
Cu 0
Pb 0
Sn 0
Mo 0
Ni 0
Mn 1
Ag 0
Ti 0
K 1
B 18
Si 13
Na 3
Ca 67
Mg 5032
P 3056
Zn 1135
Ba 0
SuS Visc 56.6 <approx 9 cst
Flash 365
H20 0.0
Insol 0.0
 

Maicoman

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2009
Location
nj
TDI
09 jetta
09 6 speed fluid

Hello to all

New to TDI with 09 jetta sedan 6 speed. I spoke with my local VW parts dealer about the type of oil used in my gearbox. He could only give me a part #. Was wondering if it is G-52?. Do I have other options for this year?

My thinking, is I want to change the fluid soon. I have 1200 miles on it. Am I mistaken in thinking I should change fluid to remove breakin metal?

Thanks in advance
Al
 

l_c

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Location
San Jose, CA USA
TDI
Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
Re: new 6-speed

Al, can you include that VW part number here?
I don't know anything about whether break-in metal matters in the gearbox. Larry
 

Maicoman

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2009
Location
nj
TDI
09 jetta
09 6 speed

Larry
I spoke with the VW parts guy , who was very generous with his time. The part # he gave me was GO52171A2 at $47 a litre.

To clarify the question I was trying to ask, assuming a new gearbox will have metal particles suspended in the oil, isn't it desirable to replace that oil with fresh oil?

This is my first VW and think it shifts great.

Thanks for your interest.
 

l_c

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
San Jose, CA USA
TDI
Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
Al, I looked back in this thread (use Printable; 100 posts per page) and that particular variety (G52 ... 726A2) has been discussed here from March 2006 through the present.

But I don't think that anyone changes gearbox oil that early. I really don't think that those particles you were talking about would do a darned thing to this type of transmission. Inside an engine (and turbocharger), it's quite a different matter.

Also, I haven't heard that a gearbox would have any more metal residue in it at the beginning, versus later as it wears. I just don't think this is something to worry about. There are undoubtedly other forums on the 'net where folks would be able to answer you in an instant. Sorry, I don't know much ... Larry
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
How early is early?

100K is a good round mileage when to change the manwell tranny fluid.
 

BrianCT

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Location
USA
TDI
TDI
Bob_Fout said:
How early is early?

100K is a good round mileage when to change the manwell tranny fluid.
On our 2002 Golf 5-sp we did it at 150,000 miles in July '06 [just short 4 years of usage]. The oil was dark and smelly. It was just done last month at 225,000 miles and came out clear and in good condition. Here we paid less then $15.00 a litre or $30.00 for the two litres needed.

On the 2006 Jetta MKV manual gear box we did the same thing, with the same fluide at 93,000 miles. Let me say something though. The Jetta's manual gear box has NEVER shifted this smoothly ever since new [car is 3 years old]. The VW OEM G060 726A2 used was like butter.It has made both cars, the 2002 and 2006 shift like new.
 

l_c

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
San Jose, CA USA
TDI
Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
early

Bob, he was asking that ("fluid") question w/ 1200 miles on the vehicle. Larry

Bob_Fout said:
How early is early?

100K is a good round mileage when to change the manwell tranny fluid.
 

hutchman

Veteran Member
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Sep 6, 2005
Location
Virginia
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI Pkg 1, 5 Spd, Graphite Blue / 2002 Jetta GLS, Black w/tan leather
BrianCT said:
On our 2002 Golf 5-sp we did it at 150,000 miles in July '06 [just short 4 years of usage]. The oil was dark and smelly. It was just done last month at 225,000 miles and came out clear and in good condition. Here we paid less then $15.00 a litre or $30.00 for the two litres needed.

On the 2006 Jetta MKV manual gear box we did the same thing, with the same fluide at 93,000 miles. Let me say something though. The Jetta's manual gear box has NEVER shifted this smoothly ever since new [car is 3 years old]. The VW OEM G060 726A2 used was like butter.It has made both cars, the 2002 and 2006 shift like new.
You put the same in both 02 & 06? Hmm, I'm at mileage where I need to do this to my 02 & 06 again and am investigating which to use.
 

BrianCT

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Location
USA
TDI
TDI
hutchman said:
You put the same in both 02 & 06? Hmm, I'm at mileage where I need to do this to my 02 & 06 again and am investigating which to use.
Huge, and I mean HUGE! improvement on the '06 w/the OEM fill we purchased here. But beware, the only way to fill an '06 tranny is through the temperature sensor. Contrary to a HEX nut on top of the '02 tranny, the '06 has a small opening to pour the fluid in via removal of the sensor behind the tranny. Best to get someone with a bentley manual to explain the procedure. I had the fluid replaced on our '06 while we were having the complete timing belt, cam and cam followers done. I can honestly say, the transmission feels like it's brand new and silky smooth. We've had mornings in the low 30's since the transmission fluid change ...so it's not a fair weather observation at any rate of the phrase.

Heck, $30.00 you can't go wrong. On an MKIV transmission it's sooooo simple to do it should be a bonus appreciation day on any stretch of the word. I'd do it every 50k on a MKIV just on the simplicity of the procedure.

BrianCT
 

BrianCT

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Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Location
USA
TDI
TDI
Maicoman said:
Hello to all
Hello back.

Maicoman said:
New to TDI with 09 jetta sedan 6 speed.

My thinking, is I want to change the fluid soon. I have 1200 miles on it.
Thanks in advance
Al
By all means do so if you desire. As I've wrote earlier it's a $30 procedure and maybe you'll sleep more soundly. Will it add a benefit to change it out? Only if you're new to shifting a manual transmissions and grinding every gear from driveway to work each day. If you're an experienced manual transmission "shifter" you're more likely to enjoy other advantages with that six-speed. We purchased a short shift kit from Dieselgeeks, a long time provider for all of us here on the TDICLUB. You can find the 6-speed short shift kit here.

If you figure how many throws on a lever are tossed around on a daily commute, the short shifter makes your car feel like a Ferrari from one gear pass to the other. I've run DieselGeeks short shifters on both our MKIV and MKV ['02 Golf and '06 Jetta] since new. Never an issue. Flawless operation. If you really want a vantastic shifting feeling with a reduction in fore/aft by 30-40% ...that's where my money would ride.

Cool.

BrianCT
 

Maicoman

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2009
Location
nj
TDI
09 jetta
Thanks Guy's. Appreciate all the info.

I don't have a problem with shifter throw, but SS kit might be my first upgrade.
 

scurvy

Good Ol' Boy
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
Chicago IL USA
TDI
2006 Golf
The A4 manual transmission fluid is so easy to change, I would recommend doing so every 50k miles. Cheap too. Redline MTL has been working great in my Golf, even at extremes of -28°F and up to 104°F. Put in the full two liters and drive on for another 50k.
 
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