stick with G52 in your tranny - here's why...

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
So in other words:

No one knows whether G52 is okay in a pre-2005 Jetta/Golf/Beetle?
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Andy, do we know where the original G50 fits in?

thx.
 

spoilsport

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 3, 1999
Location
Houston TX
TDI
2000 Golf GLS Silver (Sold). 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon Tiptronic (daughter's)
G52 for VEs

My RB Manual (1999-2002) sez to use G 052 145 A2 SAE 75 W90 (Synthetic oil).

When I changed the factory stuff out at 100K miles I went to the dealership and they sold me G 052.

I didn't know then there were more than one. :eek:
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
I think part of this "story" is missing. If you went to the dealer over the past few years and asked to buy gear oil, the guy would give you G50...there were no other considerations made; it was the only product they had. It seems that "G52" is the default fluid and the dealers no longer inventory G50. If you want G50 they have to order it.

When I order G50 the last time, I was surprised to learn they didn't have any in stock. I asked what was being used should one of the technicians need it to service a car ( :eek: ). He said, "G52, of course. It's $8/L, would you rather have that? It's half the price."

So, clearly a change has been made and I am getting the impression that there are multiple products called "G52".

G50:



Maybe someone like TDitech or vwrobert can fill in the blanks and offer a reason for the change.
 

david_594

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Location
Cheshire, CT
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS Silver
..... Im running the G52 in my 2000 Jetta. Smoothe as melted butter when warm, but when it gets cold it feels more like a frozen block of butter.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
david_594 said:
but when it gets cold it feels more like a frozen block of butter.
Yeah, that is TDitech's basic assessment, too. :(
 

david_594

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Location
Cheshire, CT
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS Silver
When I did my 5th gear swap last fall I was up in the air about MTL or G52(non synthetic). Went with the G52 and am really regretting it now to the point that I am almost ready to drain the tranny and put something else in.

Great that its 6.5 whatever when warm but it doesnt cut it in the cold. When I start the car before everything warms up I cannot hit 1st when rolling. Im wondering if the G52(synthetic) in the other bottle is any better when it comes to cold. Im considering ordering a bottle and sending a sample out for testing....
 

pepper10

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Location
Manchester, NH, USA
TDI
:)2002 A4 TDI , 2006 A5:)
Last year, I drained my OE fluid and replaced it with Redline MTL. Shifts were smooth warm or cold but the endcap seal on the tranny sprung a leak. I don't know if it's related to the MTL.. One year later, I changed my clutch and that leaking endcap seal so I had to put new fluid in. I used AMSOil MTG. I am very disappointed so far with the cold performance. Very notchy in 1st and second. I am going to drain it again very soon and am wondering what to switch to. So far, from reading this thread, I am leaning towards Redline again. I'll hang around some more to see where this rabbit hole goes..:D
 

TDImonkey

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Location
Niskayuna, NY
TDI
VW Golf 99.5 Blue 2Dr
I'm looking at doing the 5th gear swap tomorrow, and wanted to put Redline MTL in. Couldn't find it, and waited too long to order it (d'oh!). I ended up getting Valvoline 75W90 full synthetic. I don't see it mentioned anywhere else here. Does anyone have any experience with it?

Thanks!
 

TDImonkey

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Location
Niskayuna, NY
TDI
VW Golf 99.5 Blue 2Dr
Dorf:
Yup, I just realized the same thing. I shall return this worthless GL5, and go with the ever-faithful AMSoil.

Thanks!
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
TDImonkey said:
I'm looking at doing the 5th gear swap tomorrow, and wanted to put Redline MTL in. Couldn't find it, and waited too long to order it (d'oh!). I ended up getting Valvoline 75W90 full synthetic. I don't see it mentioned anywhere else here. Does anyone have any experience with it?

Thanks!

Redline MTL available at www.tdiparts.com for $10/quart
 

OdinsRageSS

Banned
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Fix_Until_Broke said:
Redline MTL available at www.tdiparts.com for $10/quart

whew, glad i can get it a few miles away at a tranny shop for like 7.50!

Im reluctant though, after 4-6 months of use of MTL in an old suzuki sidekick that speced GL4, tranny sprung a massive leak! I put in some castrol... i dunno, XAF or something from a big drum at work, stopped leaking.
 

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
FWIW - i had Redline MTL tested by my local CAT fluid analysis lab and it came in at 10.8 cSt (very close to the claimed 10.6). and, after my very crude freezer testing i feel confident that Redline MTL flows faster than OEM G52 in below freezing temps. so...
  • Redline MTL is thinner / flows better in very cold temps than G52, and
  • Redline MTL is thicker / theoretically protecting better in hot temps than G52
the only question is fuel economy... is G52 the ultimate fuel economy gear oil???? (due to its super-low viscosity at normal operating temps...)

i'm going to give Redline MTL a try and see what happens...
 
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karlaudi

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Location
San Francisco Bay area
TDI
2002 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDi; 2012 Volkswagen Golf 2.0 TDi
SUNRG said:
FWIW - i had Redline MTL tested by my local CAT fluid analysis lab and it came in at 10.8 cSt (very close to the claimed 10.6). and, after my very crude freezer testing i feel confident that Redline MTL flows faster than OEM G52 in below freezing temps. so...
  • Redline MTL is thinner / flows better in very cold temps than G52, and
  • Redline MTL is thicker / theoretically protecting better in hot temps than G52
the only question is fuel economy... is G52 the ultimate fuel economy gear oil???? (due to its super-low viscosity at normal operating temps...)

i'm going to give Redline MTL a try and see what happens...

My Bentley Manual is not current beyond 2002, so G52 in not listed. But a review of the manual transmission chart indicates that whether G50 or G51 is used depends on the engine being used, not the transmission.

So, my quick guess of the situation is that each of these oils have different additives to handle various internal tolerances and heat generated in the transaxle by the anticipated TORQUE LOAD as determined by the engine fitted. This seems true to me because the viscosities are all the same. Another quick check of this theory would be to compare the oil used in say a current Audi S4 manual trans and the basic 2.0T A4 manual trans.

Again this a great exercise, but since there are no controlled conditions or “blueprinted” cars to use as a control group and without reproducible results do I see once again “a solution in search of a problem” ……………

Please note:
Volkswagen TSB 34 01-01 states that in certain models a humming sound maybe caused by a spider gear contacting a one-piece thrust washer and that replacing the existing gear oil with G52 171 A2 gear oil will eliminate this noise.

SUNRG as soon as can look up the “black death” in my archives, I will, as stated before, post.


Much respect,

karlaudi
 
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dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
karlaudi said:
Please note:

Volkswagen TSB 34 01-01 states that in certain models a humming sound maybe caused by a spider gear contacting a one-piece thrust washer and that replacing the existing gear oil with G52 171 A2 gear oil will eliminate this noise.

karl, thanks for digging this stuff up - - good material


I think the "spider gear noise" issue is at the heart of the switch from G50 to G52.

Thanks.
 

mwalters

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2003
Location
SE Michigan - Have VCDS
TDI
Jetta TDI 2013 Tornado Red
SUNRG: Last year when I changed my clutch, I put in Redline MTL. It shifts fine in all temps. I did notice a slight drop in fuel mileage, but that could be due to the RC3 installed at the same time!:eek::p
 

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Again this a great exercise, but since there are no controlled conditions or “blueprinted” cars to use as a control group and without reproducible results do I see once again “a solution in search of a problem” ……………
LOL - this is sooo true. my shifting was fine and fuel economy very good but here i am tinkering...

i can't help myself though!! :D

honestly - i've decided i really like the 14.0 cSt Motul Gear 300 that's in now!!!
 

raybo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Location
St. Petersburg, FL
TDI
2010 JSW DSG White Gold
So.... at 140K, my '01 Golf is probably due for a tranny oil change. I have zero problems with the tranny - 80-90% highway and 5th. So which is it? G50, or some G52? Or should I leave it until 200K?

Ray
 

Diesel Addict

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Location
Reno/Sparks, NV
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI (manual)
SUNRG said:
FWIW - i had Redline MTL tested by my local CAT fluid analysis lab and it came in at 10.8 cSt (very close to the claimed 10.6). and, after my very crude freezer testing i feel confident that Redline MTL flows faster than OEM G52 in below freezing temps. so...
  • Redline MTL is thinner / flows better in very cold temps than G52, and
  • Redline MTL is thicker / theoretically protecting better in hot temps than G52
the only question is fuel economy... is G52 the ultimate fuel economy gear oil???? (due to its super-low viscosity at normal operating temps...)

i'm going to give Redline MTL a try and see what happens...
That's what I wanted to hear.:) When I get to doing a transmission fluid change I'll switch to Redline MTL. I've been using it in my 240D and I like the way it shifts and I also like what I've read about it, namely the balanced friction coefficient that's supposed to optimize shifting. My Jetta shifts fine with the factory fluid, but when the transmission is cold and I'm rolling backward it takes some effort to get it out of reverse.
 
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03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
SUNRG said:
FWIW - i had Redline MTL tested by my local CAT fluid analysis lab and it came in at 10.8 cSt (very close to the claimed 10.6). and, after my very crude freezer testing i feel confident that Redline MTL flows faster than OEM G52 in below freezing temps. so...
  • Redline MTL is thinner / flows better in very cold temps than G52, and
  • Redline MTL is thicker / theoretically protecting better in hot temps than G52
the only question is fuel economy... is G52 the ultimate fuel economy gear oil???? (due to its super-low viscosity at normal operating temps...)

i'm going to give Redline MTL a try and see what happens...
is there anything about fuel or oil that you don't know:eek: :D
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 25, 2001
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
dieseldorf said:
Andy, do we know where the original G50 fits in?

thx.
DD,
All I know about G50 comes from earlier traffic here - just that it's a full synth 75W-90.

Andy
 

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
LessIsMore said:
G50 = excellent protection, shifting & durability.
G52 = rapid wear, inferior shifting.
Peter - i'm new to gear oil lab analysis, but i had my G52 lab analyzed after 43k+ miles and the CAT fluids lab manager said it looked fine and there was no need to drain it (other than my curiosity and interest in experimenting with different gear oils). Have you had G50 lab analyzed, or seen G50 / G52 lab analysis comparisons?

Because gear oils stay in sooooooo long it's hard to get good apples to apples comparisons. if 10 of us installed various gear oils at ~50k (2 people G52, 2 people G50, 2 people MTL, 2 people MTG, 2 people Motylgear - for example) and then we had them all lab analyzed at 100k by the same lab, that would give us reasonable head-to-head comparison data. bigger sample size would be better of course.

cheers!
 

Frank M

BANNED
Joined
Apr 7, 2000
Location
NH
TDI
NB
comparisons

LessIsMore said:
As for comparisons, take into account that some people might shift 20 times to drive a hundred miles. While on my country roads, I shift a hundred times to drive 20 miles..
there is minimal strain on the lube when shifting. the ring and pinion gears are always turning, mile after mile the same amount.
If you drain a gear box and observe swirls of glitter in the oil, are you learning the same thing that an analysis will tell you or something better. IOW, does the analysis detect these large particles? .
there is an internal magnet on these trans-axles
If one oil drains black and another drains amber, should this info be treated as anecdotal, and therefore inferior to oil analysis? .
who knows what the fill actually was...certainly not identical lubes and conditions.
 
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Frank M

BANNED
Joined
Apr 7, 2000
Location
NH
TDI
NB
LessIsMore said:
Do sycro rings wear? Copper goes to the oil.
unusual wear from syncro rings is caused by fast shifting with an occasional grind here and there.

if the driver pounds on the transmission it won't last anyway..
lube is the least of its problems. it biggest problem is behind the steering wheel...:rolleyes:
 
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