Steel glow plugs

mopractice

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Location
Mn
TDI
04 Passat Wagon
I changed to all steel plugs last weekend and paid $70 to get computer updated.

Last fall I had a bad glow plug and ordered a replacement from impex, it was installed in oct 08. Turns out the new plug was steel, so I went all winter with one steel and 3 ceramic. The three ceramics came out very easily and looked fine. The steel plug was difficult to remove, I worked it back and forth 1/4 turn, added penetrant, did something else for a while and repeated process for about 40 minutes. The steel plug came out intact and looked good, in fact it was reinstalled.
MIKE
 

DeliveryValve

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Location
Western US
TDI
Passat GLS Wagon
Smokerr said:
I want to chime in on one message that's buried someplace back, that being the re-flash for the steel plugs also does the hesitation fix.
.....
oilhammer said:
Newest software will cover any prior updates. All manufacturers (that I know of) are like this.
Regarding the Hesitation fix. If you are still under warranty, Would it be possible to say you have a "hesitation" and get them reflash which will include the current update on the glowplugs? At least that portion of the cost would be covered under warranty.. Right? Then one could then change out the plugs at their leisure at a later date or possibly before the reflash.
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
mopractice said:
Last fall I had a bad glow plug and ordered a replacement from impex, it was installed in oct 08. Turns out the new plug was steel, so I went all winter with one steel and 3 ceramic. The steel plug came out intact and looked good, in fact it was reinstalled.
MIKE
That 1 steel plug is probably fried from being run all winter at the higher voltage. I'd pull it and test it just to be sure it's good.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Route 66 said:
I have replaced the GPs but did not reflash, the car runs and starts fine.
Route 66, if you replaced the ceramic glow plugs with the later steel ones, they may (will?) burn out as the operating voltage needs to be adjusted lower. This was the rason for the flash procedure.
 

Wobbly

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Location
Portland, ORegon
TDI
05 Passat Wagon
Deactivating New Steel Plugs Prior to Reflash

Removing the 80 amp glow plug fuse should be an alternative to disconnecting the glow plug harness.
 

johnboy00

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Location
Bridgewater,Ma.,USA
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon, 2004 Jetta, 2003 Jetta wagon
aja8888 said:
Sounds like a plan! if you don't have acetone, brake fluid works with it too.

It's brake fluid instead of the ATF, not the acetone.

You might be able to use brake cleaner instead of the acetone.
 

kato96

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Location
WA USA
TDI
05 BEW wagon
I replaced ceramic with steel (105 916 07, 4 @ $27.49), glow plugs last weekend, and left them unconnected. Dealer succesfuly updated ECM of my 05 BEW per TSB 010833 on 4/30. I recieved estimate of $115.00 for flash but was informed VOA 8 year/80,000 mile emission control system warranty will cover the cost. Thank you EPA
 

T_D_I_POWER

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Location
Savannah. GA. USA - Toronto. ON. CANADA
TDI
'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
T_D_I_POWER said:
Since Al and steel have different thermal coefficient, therfore if I were you guys, I would apply this on the GP threads. Then install and torque GP to spec. Guarantee, that you'll be able to remove the GP next time with ease and not worry of stripping the threads even with hot cyl. head.

http://www.permatex.com/images/DisplayImage.asp?210|/images/ProductPhotos/31163.jpg

Cheers,
Lead based is a better choice than copper due to galvanic corrosion. Zinc is an even better choice if available.

HERE is a chart showing Zinc right between iron and aluminum where as copper is down near the bottom. Lead is closer, but zinc is the best choice.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MOGolf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Location
underneath something
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6, 2019 Jaguar I-PACE
And VW specifically states to NOT apply anything to the threads.
 

volkswagendude

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Location
Canada
TDI
None for now...
kato96 said:
I replaced ceramic with steel (105 916 07, 4 @ $27.49), glow plugs last weekend, and left them unconnected. Dealer succesfuly updated ECM of my 05 BEW per TSB 010833 on 4/30. I recieved estimate of $115.00 for flash but was informed VOA 8 year/80,000 mile emission control system warranty will cover the cost. Thank you EPA
Ahhh the emission control warranty! Thanks for the reminder to bring it up to them!
 

Smokerr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Alaska
TDI
Passat Wagon GL,2005,Silver
MOGolf said:
And VW specifically states to NOT apply anything to the threads.
First I finally read the moniker below the 2.0 TDI picture, unchained motoring, I love it!

Oilhammer, can you weight in on this? I have used Nickel Anti seize for almost all that stuff unless the manual specificalyt stated otherwise (some do state engine oil on head bolts, what we used to call peanut butter which I think is severly toxic and no longer made)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I clean glow plug threads with WD40, but use nothing else...and the WD40 is pretty much just for ease of assembly. I also use it to prevent rust/corrosion build-up while the plugs are installed. I never use anti-sieze.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
oilhammer said:
I clean glow plug threads with WD40, but use nothing else...and the WD40 is pretty much just for ease of assembly. I also use it to prevent rust/corrosion build-up while the plugs are installed. I never use anti-sieze.
Why no Anti-seize?
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
oilhammer said:
Gunks up, and can cause a poor ground path.
Yeah, copper is such a poor electrical and heat conductor.
It's better than aluminum. Good thing there's nothing aluminum in the head used in the glow plug grounding circuit.

VW says no to lubricant and we're supposed to say amen, but when they say ceramic glow plugs we flip them the bird?
If it's hot, and metal to metal, and I may want it to come apart later, I use anti-sieze, nickel or copper, but I prefer copper for higher temperature applications.
 
Last edited:

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Toyota and Isuzu say not to use it either on their glow plugs. I would imagine if you researeched it enough, no manufacturer does.

I think (from what I have seen) is that is allows for a poor seat, since the conical wedge at the top does not seal well with the gunk under it. That is probably why there is often black gunk (soot leaking past the threads) in the anti-sieze when you go to remove them. Also, I think it is tough to really get the proper torque on them upon tightening.

Much of this is probably due to people simply using too much of it though. I prefer cleaned threads, light torque, and preventive WD40 sprays at every service. Seems to work for me. Never had to deal with one that was messed up. And I have a VAG diesel that is older than any TDI. :p
 

Smokerr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Alaska
TDI
Passat Wagon GL,2005,Silver
I can say from other experience, that the copper anti seize has caused serious problems in disassemble in non heat related applications. We have banned it from the facility.

I will go with Brian on this one for sure. Its counter intuitive from other experience, but when someone has specific experience and Brian's qualifications, best to follow that.

And, I believe if you look, Nickle has a much higher rating than copper anti seize (a quick check shows copper to 1800 degrees and nickel to 2600) .
 

hotrodfeguy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
Location
Green Bay,WI
TDI
2006.5 Jetta
You know if VW was smart they would suck up the price on the upgrede/reflash as long as owners want to upgrade to the metal GP. It would show they at least care for repeat biz. I love my car but between this and all the other bugs (cam bearings) I am begining to wonder, about the TDI engine :rolleyes:
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
oilhammer said:
I think (from what I have seen) is that is allows for a poor seat, since the conical wedge at the top does not seal well with the gunk under it. That is probably why there is often black gunk (soot leaking past the threads) in the anti-sieze when you go to remove them. Also, I think it is tough to really get the proper torque on them upon tightening.

Much of this is probably due to people simply using too much of it though. I prefer cleaned threads, light torque, and preventive WD40 sprays at every service. Seems to work for me. Never had to deal with one that was messed up.
I use it sparingly on the glow plug threads, and nowhere near the seal/seat.
The torque isn't significantly changed (based on dry torque angle to and coated torque angles to achieve the same torque force) due to the low force required for glow plugs and the compression (the thread pushes down on the seat, not pulls on a bolt head).
My glow plug was messed up due to galling upon removal of the OEM installed glow plug, a glow plug that was installed without any anti-sieze. I'm not claiming that it was the lack of anti-sieze that caused the galling and thread damage, but I will state that I'll not chance it again.

Nickel has less electrical and heat conductivity and that's why I chose copper. The head had better not reach 1800 degrees, F, C, Kelvin, or Rankine.:eek:
I've had issues at work with nickle not providing ease of threaded component removal in hot (750F), high pressure (24,000 psi), steel to steel, compressed thread, bottom seal applications. I've never had problems disassembling when copper was used during the prior assembly.
I used my own specific experience, my history of hot, dry disassembly, my history of disassembling hot nickle or copper coated assemblies, my glow plug in my engine head.
 

kato96

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Location
WA USA
TDI
05 BEW wagon
hotrodfeguy said:
You know if VW was smart they would suck up the price on the upgrede/reflash as long as owners want to upgrade to the metal GP. It would show they at least care for repeat biz. I love my car but between this and all the other bugs (cam bearings) I am begining to wonder, about the TDI engine :rolleyes:
They paid for my reflash, check post #257.
 
Last edited:

cos

Active member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
Georgetown, Ontario
TDI
2004 Passat GLS TDI
hotrodfeguy said:
Well they should make a letter infoming everyone of the problem. Not just a single dealer being good about it.
That means they will have to admit they made a mistake, then recall, free GP, etc. Too much money to spend, bad publicity, then they might have to recall the ballance shaft, He, He. I only wish I get the parts for free.
 

CsTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Location
Baltimore, Maryland
TDI
'10 TouaregTDI, '15 JettaTDI
Lug_Nut said:
I use it sparingly on the glow plug threads, and nowhere near the seal/seat.
The torque isn't significantly changed (based on dry torque angle to and coated torque angles to achieve the same torque force) due to the low force required for glow plugs and the compression (the thread pushes down on the seat, not pulls on a bolt head).
My glow plug was messed up due to galling upon removal of the OEM installed glow plug, a glow plug that was installed without any anti-sieze. I'm not claiming that it was the lack of anti-sieze that caused the galling and thread damage, but I will state that I'll not chance it again.

Nickel has less electrical and heat conductivity and that's why I chose copper. The head had better not reach 1800 degrees, F, C, Kelvin, or Rankine.:eek:
I've had issues at work with nickle not providing ease of threaded component removal in hot (750F), high pressure (24,000 psi), steel to steel, compressed thread, bottom seal applications. I've never had problems disassembling when copper was used during the prior assembly.
I used my own specific experience, my history of hot, dry disassembly, my history of disassembling hot nickle or copper coated assemblies, my glow plug in my engine head.
x2 on using something to prevent seizing. I used a little copper anti-seize when I replaced mine and found they threaded easy. I expect easy removal when the time comes
 
Top