Status hearing w/ Judge is F 12/16 - check this link for transcript of meeting

[TdiSandiego]

The one article someone posted says VW agreed to 1 billion dollars to fix or buyback the 3.0's. That comes out to 12048 per car. That isnt generous at all, and doesnt factor in payment for buyback at all.

 

[GoFaster]

I'm not sure that's actually the case (that it is only a software update). For some reason I'm reading that they came to an agreement today concerning the 3.0 TDI but I haven't seen it anywhere.

But, even if true, DEF consumption could be one motivation. Expect a large increase ...

 

[MBQ]

The one article someone posted says VW agreed to 1 billion dollars to fix or buyback the 3.0's. That comes out to 12048 per car. That isnt generous at all, and doesnt factor in payment for buyback at all.

The one billion is most likely for buyback of the 20k gen 1 cars.

 

[bird67]

I'm not sure that's actually the case (that it is only a software update). For some reason I'm reading that they came to an agreement today concerning the 3.0 TDI but I haven't seen it anywhere.
But, even if true, DEF consumption could be one motivation. Expect a large increase ...

That is exactly what VW claims. It claims the 3.0s can be fixed with only a minor software tweak. Keep in mind, of course, that this is the same "fix" that VW has offered, twice, and been denied approval twice. So what's different now?

EPA/CARB have been bought off. Read the last few days' news releases - $1billion going here, $225million going there, not a nickel to consumers.
With hundreds of millions from VW going into EPA/CARB "environmental remediation funds" or some such crap, VW has purchased EPA/CARB approval of the fix when it is rehashed and offered for the third time. You read it here first - VW's next proposed fix for the 3.0 will sail through the approval process.

EPA? Richer. CARB? Richer. Class lawyers? Richer. VW? Spent $millions, yes, but in bribes in order to save $billions. Consumers? Who cares.

 

[flargabarg]

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/3Liter/Second Partial Consent Decree - 12-20-16.pdf

The buyback information is all in appendix A-1. It's going to be based on retail value as of November 2015, plus taxes, and a bit for owner expenses. This doesn't count the restitution portion which will be separate, and the only remedy for those who are getting the emissions modification. No 'clean trade' value nonsense like on the 2.0. It also describes how the buyback formulas will be done if they need to offer one for the Gen2 vehicles.

 

[pwe312]

Good find. It does say "Clean retail"

The Base Value for each Eligible Vehicle is, where available (including both Model Year (“MY”) vehicles before 2015 and certain MY 2015 vehicles), the Clean Retail value of the vehicle based on the NADA Vehicle Identification Code (VIC) for each Eligible Vehicle in the November 2015 NADA Used Car Guide (“NADA Guide”) published in or around October 2015.

Sucks that it's as of November and not September, but I guess the argument could be made that the value of all VWs, non-tdi included took a hit in September. That would open the door for restitution to all VW owners.

 

[BARIIINGS]

November date consideration sucks, and should be sept retail value. My car value plummeted, after the TDI scandal broke, not the 3.0 TDI scandal. Retail value is definitely better then clean trade in though. Tax implications for me are great. Living in PA, we pay 6-7% depending on county. this may turn out better then I originally thought.

 

[pwe312]

They also throw in another $720 along with taxes. Not sure if the 2.0 got that.

 

[BARIIINGS]

anyone have nada values from November of 2015 on these buggies?

 

[DrgRnnr]

This is not as good as the 2.0's. Comparing the two scenario's I am short 2-4k on every 3.0 under these terms. BTW I am using the 9/2015 values so its even worse than the calcs I have.

 

[purduecrew]

This is not as good as the 2.0's. Comparing the two scenario's I am short 2-4k on every 3.0 under these terms. BTW I am using the 9/2015 values so its even worse than the calcs I have.

Yah thats bs compared to the 2.0 terms. Can't believe they are getting away with no restitution component. EPA got paid off.

 

[BARIIINGS]

Drgrunnr, do you have a copy of those values?

Also there is a restitution value as well, that will be added to this.

 

[purduecrew]

Drgrunnr, do you have a copy of those values?
Also there is a restitution value as well, that will be added to this.

Where do you see that?

 

[DrgRnnr]

BARIIINGS just pm'd you.

 

[BARIIINGS]

Now of course I can't find the restitution piece, I could of sworn I saw something on it. I may be incorrect.

 

[gtmule]

BARIIINGS just pm'd you.

Somebody post em up!!!!!!

 

[DrgRnnr]

Its a google sheet that I put together with the assistance of another TDi'er. I would rather just share the sheet selectively, so PM me and I'll share if I recognize your handle.

Also, directly from the decree:
No Incurred Costs. Defendants, their agents, contractors, dealers,
successors, or assigns shall provide the Approved Emissions Modification free of
charge to all Eligible Owners, Eligible Lessees, and Off-Lease Owners. Although
Defendants need not provide any consumer restitution or damages payment in
connection with the Approved Emissions Modification, Defendants must provide an
Approved Emissions Modification to any Eligible Owner or Eligible
Lessee regardless of whether the consumer is eligible for or receives such consumer restitution or
damages.

 

[DrgRnnr]

I don't believe there will be a restitution payment, I will be happily wrong if determined otherwise.

 

[BARIIINGS]

Yeah, if there's not, which after rereading, it doesn't look like there is. Not quite the deal I originally thought it was. I bought mine used at the beginning of 2014, so I'd guess based on what I paid that I still got a pretty cheap car "rental for 3-5 years if my estimates are close.

 

[gtmule]

Yeah, if there's not, which after rereading, it doesn't look like there is. Not quite the deal I originally thought it was. I bought mine used at the beginning of 2014, so I'd guess based on what I paid that I still got a pretty cheap car "rental for 3-5 years if my estimates are close.

There will be restitution. This isn't the settlement, just the consent decree where the FTC is telling vw what they have to do. The settlement will cover the restitution, which is meant to induce you to sign the release. FTC is just saying they cant give anyoneless than retail for a buyback.

The consent decree doesn't mention payment for letting them do a fix, which there will obviously have to be.

 

[DrgRnnr]

Okay GT, I'm buying what your saying and like I said before I'll be happily wrong.

 

[purduecrew]

There will be restitution. This isn't the settlement, just the consent decree where the FTC is telling vw what they have to do. The settlement will cover the restitution, which is meant to induce you to sign the release. FTC is just saying they cant give anyoneless than retail for a buyback.
The consent decree doesn't mention payment for letting them do a fix, which there will obviously have to be.

Hope for many others you are right but if you look at page 72, 2.23 it states:

“Retail Replacement Value” shall mean, for a given Eligible Vehicle, and only for purposes of satisfying Defendants’ obligations under this Consent Decree, the cost of retail purchase of a comparable replacement vehicle of similar value, condition, and mileage as of November 2, 2015, as calculated and defined in Appendix A-1 to this Consent Decree.

To me, that says that defendants must pay retail value or more to satisfy this consent decree. They may pay "more" but I don't think the court is holding them to anything beyond this.

 

[gtmule]

Hope for many others you are right but if you look at page 72, 2.23 it states:
“Retail Replacement Value” shall mean, for a given Eligible Vehicle, and only for purposes of satisfying Defendants’ obligations under this Consent Decree, the cost of retail purchase of a comparable replacement vehicle of similar value, condition, and mileage as of November 2, 2015, as calculated and defined in Appendix A-1 to this Consent Decree.
To me, that says that defendants must pay retail value or more to satisfy this consent decree. They may pay "more" but I don't think the court is holding them to anything beyond this.

Again, no restitution portion for buybacks would imply none for fixes, which is absurd. Watch this space on Thursday When the settlement is announced.

 

[purduecrew]

Again, no restitution portion for buybacks would imply none for fixes, which is absurd. Watch this space on Thursday When the settlement is announced.

I think they can be mutually exclusive. Restitution for the fixers, and retail buyout of the buyback's...again not saying that your view isn't rational, I just can't get straight to it.

And where did Thursday come from? Was I asleep at the wheel today lol?

 

[gtmule]

I think they can be mutually exclusive. Restitution for the fixers, and retail buyout of the buyback's...again not saying that your view isn't rational, I just can't get straight to it.
And where did Thursday come from? Was I asleep at the wheel today lol?

The vw court settlement website now says that they hope to be able to announce the settlement Thursday.

 

[purduecrew]

The vw court settlement website now says that they hope to be able to announce the settlement Thursday.

Well fantastic. For grins, my restitution on the wife's 2.0 (didn't hit a minimum amount so I trust the number) shows the restitution equal to 17.5% of the "buyback" value. It turned out to be 35% of the buyback value because we got the other half of the seller pool. That makes the numbers very interesting...wonder if they will do a pool again...

 

[pwe312]

If they don't offer restitution, there's no incentive or urgency for owners to get the fix. They'll miss their 85% fix target and incur massive fines. Over $6 million for each 1% short on gen 1 and $26 million for each 1% of gen 2.

 

[gtmule]

If they don't offer restitution, there's no incentive or urgency for owners to get the fix. They'll miss their 85% fix target and incur massive fines. Over $6 million for each 1% short on gen 1 and $26 million for each 1% of gen 2.

Eggzachary

 

[pwe312]

Last question on the FAQ of the settlement page says they will announce the relief on the consumer class action suit on Thursday.

"Volkswagen has also reached agreement with the Court-appointed Plaintiffs’ Steering Committee (PSC) on substantial aspects of the relief that consumer class members will receive, and the parties are working to resolve the remaining issues. We are restricted by the Court’s confidentiality order from providing details about the settlement discussions between Volkswagen and the Plaintiffs’ Steering Committee. We will provide more information as soon as we are able. The Court has scheduled a status conference on Thursday December 22 at 11am Pacific for the parties to report on progress towards a resolution."

If they don't offer restitution, they are really playing with fire. They've already set a precedent with the 2.0 deal and the 3.0 owners are generally more sophisticated and experienced with greater access to lawyers (due to the much higher costs).

 

[bird67]

Page 23 of Appendix B provides a table reflecting a short window (April-June 2017 depending on which Gen2) for VW to submit its fix to CARB/EPA for approval. I say "short" because VW has gone longer without a fix for the 2.0. The table shows an even earlier date by which VW is "expected" to submit its fix, as early as February 2017 for some Gen2s.

This seems ominous, suggesting great confidence on VW's part that its fix will be approved. Yet VW's "simple software fix" was already rejected, twice, by CARB/EPA, and this short window doesn't give VW much time at all to develop and test the efficacy of a new fix. I believe VW merely intends to resubmit the same fix CARB/EPA already rejected.

What would give VW such great confidence that the result will be different this time, and that CARB/EPA will approve the fix already rejected? Money. Lots and lots of money, flowing directly from VW's pockets to CARB/EPA, bypassing consumers' pockets completely. It's right in the documents.

Watch for approval to sail right through. The press releases are right, sort of - the fix is indeed in.