Static IP Timing

BigAndy

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Location
Northern BC
TDI
99 A3
For the Club - I've been working trying to get my static timing, but the only way I can get it is to advance the pump to the end of the slots and then skip a tooth on the IP pump. The reason is because the pin in the injection pump is sloppy and no matter what I do, I can't seem to get all the slack out between the pump and the crank without pushing down on the pin, pulling hard the belt and hoping I catch the right tooth...
 
Last edited:

Howler

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2000
Location
Planet Earth
TDI
'10 Touareg TDI
I read something a while back that indicated there was a false hole the pin could insert into. I think Drivbiwire was discussing this, but don't remember well which topic it was. You might PM him your questions.
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Location
Versailles, Kentucky
TDI
2015 Audi Q5 TDI, 2000 New Beetle


Yes, you can get a bit of "wiggle" at the pump pulley if it moves.

Personally, I find it's easier to do a TB tension on an A4 rather than the A3/B4. I invariably have about 1 tooth of slack between the crank and the IP that is a pain to get out. If you don't get it out, you'll hear a "sproing" noise from the tensioner as the slack is released when turning the crank to check for interference. Then your cam/IP/crank will be out of alignment. Don't ask how I know this.....

I check for slack on the IP side very, very, VERY carefully prior to setting the tension.
 
Last edited:

jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
Bradford Massachusetts
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
A thing that I always do that seems to take care of this issue is:

With the belt on and the cam pulley still loose but almost snuggged up ( allowed to rotate ) as well as all the other drive parts ( idler, tensioner, etc )

Make sure the pump is pinned properly and the crank is locked exactly at TDC.

By hand pull as much tension as you can on the pump side of the belt, sometimes you'll see that the belt is almost in between teeth, if this is the case, then use you counterhold tool on the cam pulley to engage the belt teeth and tighten the belt on the pump ( front side ) as much as possible and engage the tighter of the two possible positions where the teeth might fall into on the pump, if it's just way too tight ( on an A3/B4 ) then either the pump is adjusted too far in one direction or another or the slightly relaxed engagement is ideal. With the A3/B4 setup, you never know if someone has completely adjusted the pump one way or another, kind of a drawback I guess. If the relaxed engagement is allowing too much slack and you're unable to pull the belt to its next position using the counterholder tool on the cam then I suggest you loosen the pump mounting and adjust it back a bit to accomodate the new belt, remember you'll just have to adjust it anyways once you've got the basics done.

I hope this makes sense... in a nutshell, you should never have any real slack between the crank and the pump, all the slack needs to be on the tensioner side...
 

Warthog

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Clemson, SC
TDI
see Bio
That may be what's wrong with my repair job!
I had to remove the IP to replace the pump head (LONG story, posted elsewhere) and finally got it all back together. It seems the pump is not timed correctly as the engine won't "run" for more than a second or 2 although it cranks smartly. I followed the Bentley instructions carefully, twice even, but no luck. Rotating the IP counter-clockwise is likewise not possible as there is no more slot left! (I am using metalnurd tools, BTW.)
Conplicating this is the curious thing that field #2 on Gp.00 is NOT showing a number with the switch "ON" but the engine not running. It used to show a number, and on my other TDI's, Gp00 also shows a number in this position.
I wonder if that means the timing is out so far it is out of range, or something else is wrong.
I will throw in my 2-cents worth about how VW went out of their way to make working on the A3 timing belt a most difficult job! I agree the earlier ones were a piece-o-cake compared to this one!
 

jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
Bradford Massachusetts
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
Warthog,

If it starts and won't run for more than a second then the mechanical timing should be good enough as it's firing fuel at a reasonable time if you are getting a hit of power. If it's dying out after a combustion event then I would look at other things like the pump starving for fuel or a fuel solenoid not pulling it's plunger or getting voltage.

I wouldn't concern yourself with any of the VAG-COM blocks just yet, get the engine running first then analyze them.

What were the original symptoms? Have you got all the injector lines bled well? Are you getting steady fuel pulses with the unions cracked loose?

I personally find the A3/B4 TB is a reasonable job, I find it easier than the ALH ones... no motor mount to deal with, less idlers, you can adjust the timing with the engine running real-time, no water pump, less boost hoses to bother with, etc. But that might just be me...
 

Warthog

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Clemson, SC
TDI
see Bio
Original problem was the plunger in the pump broke. I installed another pump head I got from dieselgeek, and have just re-installed the pump assembly to the engine. I made a serious error in that I did not scribe marks on where the pump was originally located as I foolishly thought the alignment tools etc. would provide adequate timing alignment. Wrong. That is how I found I do not have any take-up space in the CCW direction to adjust timing.
At this moment all the stuff that must be removed to do the TB procedure is out and off the engine again (did THAT last night) and I am going to do the TB procecure again using the techniques discussed earlier in this thread.
I'm still concerned about the lack of info showing in position 2 in GP-00 as it DOES show-up without the engine running on another VW-TDI I have...Position 2 is related to the start-timing and I think it's signal must come from the start injector. Sure would like to know that. BTW, the start injector test as described in the Bentley manual is OK. The fuel valve clicks when it is powered, too.
Will post again after I get the TB procedure finished and can do some more cranking-tests.
My comment about TB changing is based on earlier experience with non-electronic and non-turbo VW-Diesels....they were soooooooeasy.
 

Warthog

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Clemson, SC
TDI
see Bio
96 Passat TDI, 1Z engine.
"After-action" report. Reset all rotating parts to set-up position. Checked for adequate fuel in pump, pump DOES suck fuel.
Cranked engine. Got a number in Gp-00, Block 2. 255.
Block 9 = 106. block 2 possibilities should fall between 10 and 90. 255 is obviously no good.
Rotated pump a little. cranked again. still get 255.
I went through all this 6 times and never got other than a 255 in block 2.
*IP pump pin still goes into the hole. (BTW, Andy. if everything is really lined up good, the pin should go on through the sheet metal and into the hole in the pump bracket . It's thick and the pin doesn't wobble there.)
*Cam lock plate still can be inserted easily.
*Flywheel marks on TDC.
*Block 2 reads 255 when engine is cranking smartly!
(Fortunately, my battery isn't spoiled...thought I'd ruined it the other day, but it took charge and I'm back in business again!)
Gee, I sure wish I had my 85 Jetta...even with the leaking roof, the failed AC...and NO electronics!

Can anyone out there suggest a source for the bent-wrench to easily get to the rear, lower fuel-line nut on the pump head?
 

jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
Bradford Massachusetts
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
OK, I just hung a new pump on mine last night so I'm as fresh as can be with this Warthog... Where is the pin? It should be right around 4 or 5 O'Clock...

Was the woodruff key installed on the pulley? This is just like the ALH or any old IDI for that matter, as long as the cam, crank, and the IP is pinned in place the engine will start assuming all the parts are good and you have the pump primed. The actual timing adjustment is somewhat not necessary for the initial start. I got lucky, I mounted my pump based on the marks left on the bracket and the timing was exactly where I wanted it and I didn't have to make an adjustment afterwards.

Stop worrying about VAG-COM readings, they won't help you at all until the engine is running...

I think either your injector lines are air bound or you have not primed the pump properly or and this is the big one: you may not have the pump pinned in the right position. Remember, the pulley only has one small hole, this hole will allow the pin to fit tightly into the one hole in the bracket behind the pulley that is at approximately 4 O'Clock ( it might be between 4 and 5 actually ).

If you took the pump head off, you probably took the QA off too, you also need to keep in mind that you may not be injecting enough fuel to get it started either even if the timing is proper. You may have to hammer that QA around.

Are you sure that pump head went back together properly? You've got quite a few variables here...
 

Warthog

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Clemson, SC
TDI
see Bio
OK...Pin is in position, at say, 4 to 5 o'clock. cam-lock goes into place "easily" and the flywheel IS at TDC.
I filled the pump with the requisite minimum 180ml diesel fuel, and at first set the pump at midpoint on the brackets. Yes, I have taken the top off, but was quite successful at getting it reset to the right place. I scribed 3 marks on the body/pump body and they are all lined up REALLY close. Close enough that it ought to run, anyhow. I've actually done this thing about 4 times earlier while chasing leaks and while the engine still ran.
I wrote dieselgeek this morning to see if he had another salvage pump that was known to be good...he doesn't. I also wrote a couple of other places with the same question.
My plan for tonight is to do the priming procedure with the mighty-vac again, crack the injector nuts, (and spray fuel all around) and then try for a start again.
Just for the record, on the 1Z pump, from what I have in writing, the plug and the screw on the end of the pump head do not have anything to do with timing as the old ones did. I would like a confirmation on this...one way or the other.
BENT WRENCH: I located a HAZET "bent wrench" for $34 on the web...anyone got any better price or local (Atlanta, Charlotte or sort of that close) source?
At least I don't NEED the car just now, it's beautiful motorcycle weather. (It'll rain within 24 hours, now that I've said that.)
 

Warthog

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Clemson, SC
TDI
see Bio
Oh, the head went together nicely. I had it on the bench in the official coffee-can and it actually was no problem. It turned smoothly when I was done, and nothing rattled.
 

jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
Bradford Massachusetts
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
The screw on the back of the pump is not needed for TDI's since the timing is done electronically. If you have the dial indicator and adapter it will still work though in this application and might actually be a good diagnostic for you at this point since you seem to be in the "anythings possible" phase. You should set the preload off TDC and get the gauge to read at TDC just like before, this will tell you that the cam plate and plunger is timed properly to the shaft and the crank. Are you getting fuel at the injectors during cranking?

It's funny you mentioned the center pump head screw. My brand new ( from VW ) pump that I hung on my car last night was having a hard time priming with the mityvac, sometimes they do I think we can all agree... anyways, I got enough fuel into the pump to attempt a start and to purge the injector lines, I cranked it a bit and started getting fuel at the injectors, tightened them all down and was expecting it to start right up at this point. Nope, nothing, I did notice some fuel on things though, odd I guess I didn't clean up so well after the injector line bleeding phase. Tried again, more fuel... Hmmm, I guess fuel is coming from somewhere else... Sure enough, that center pump head screw was just finger tight from the factory allowing insufficient pump pressure to pop the injectors. Tightened it down and there she went... Took a while to get all the air out of the system on this one too despite having good seals at the filter, it seemed to just keep getting recycled and the pump was really foaming up the return line until a good 30 minutes or so of running.

Best of luck Warthog. I don't know what else to offer for advice, you seem to be doing the right things here.

BTW: The QA housing is VERY VERY sensitive, don't assume that you scribe marks will get you to starting territory, you may want to make some adjustements there, if this is the case, you may find that the engine will make weak attempts while cranking and speed up slightly but won't take off, this is everything working but just not enough fuel to support an idle speed.
 
Last edited:

jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
Bradford Massachusetts
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
Warthog, I was thinking about your problem and relating it to a mistake I had made. If you took the cam plate out of the pump and put it back in 180 degrees out of where it's supposed to be the pump will be firing off #3 instead of #1 TDC. As a quick diagnostic you can mark the pulley 180 and then just retime the TB with the pump 180 opposite of where it locks in with the pin. If it starts right up you know where the problem is.

Are you getting strong fuel spritzes at the injector nuts when loosened?
 

Warthog

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Clemson, SC
TDI
see Bio
JGG: Am getting fuel at the injectors, but cannot tell if it's strong spritzes as I'm working alone and have not figgured how to crank engine while messing around in engine compartment.
You comment about cam plate is MOST interesting. I'll have to look at the pump drawing and see if I messed with that. I don't think I did, tho.
 

Warthog

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Clemson, SC
TDI
see Bio
JGG: OK, I've had a look at ALL the pictures I took while I was replacing my pump head. Either I didn't mess with the cam-plate or I found nothing out of order from the way things ought to be and didn't take any pictures!
There wouldn't have been any reason to mess with it as I did not remove the pump head from the housing until it was off the engine and vertical in the holder, on the bench. None of the cams were out of place, in other words. Of course this does not prove I didn't undo something I didn't NEED to undo just to have a look!
I'm getting REALLY good at undoing things in the engine compartment to re-set the TB though.
Have just finished setting the TB again using the discussion that started this thread, and after turning the engine manually, found the IP is "off" by the dreadful 1/2 TB tooth, which naturally precludes IP timing adjustment in the "other" diection.

To further discuss the cam plate: there are lugs (or ears) on the various shafts. Normally lugs are offset enough (or 2 different sizes) that it is not possible to assemble the mating parts wrong without getting into interference. From your comments, it seems the cam plate is not made this way! (Dear BOSCH: How Stupid!) Once IT is in wrong, everything else that will only go one-way also goes together wrong; that is quite plain.
Looks like I have some more experimenting to do!
Since I'm going to have to re-time the TB again, I'll try the 180 rotation on the pump sprocket next.

PS. Maryland Metrics has the "Bent Wrench" (for the 17mm fuel-line tubing flare nuts) for a bit over $30. plus shipping, whatever that is. It's a Hazet 4560, if anyone can find one cheaper... I recalled I had a 17mm crowfoot that I probably bought in the 70's and it is doing a good job on those nuts, too. :rolleyes:
 

DPM

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 16, 2001
Location
Newtownards, N. Ireland
TDI
2019 Rav4 AWD Hybrid, Citroen C4 BlueHDI
The service manual for the Toyota 2C diesel (denso pump, clone of Bosch) is implicit that following pump rebuild, you must rotate the pump to a certain position (key up, IIRC) and confirm that fuel flows straight through the pump and out through one of the delivery valves. Wrong one, and you get to strip the pump and turn the plunger 180deg...
 

Warthog

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Clemson, SC
TDI
see Bio
ahhhh!
Of course. Consult the Toyota manual for the VW job! :p Well, I WAS reading my 1978 BMW motorcycle manual...
(Just kidding.)
Actually, I used the job description from this forum, that was posted as a link in the seal-job descriptions. I have checked the instructions as I printed them, and I guess the author was lucky as he did not note that the cam plate could be placed 180 degrees out of phase.
To reitterate, it is POOR design that incorrect assembly is possible for this part.
I can NOW take all the stuff off the engine and get the pump off in less than an hour...
 

Warthog

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Clemson, SC
TDI
see Bio
Still working on this...and have not got the engine running yet.
Took the original pump apart on the bench to see about the orientation of the wobble plate. I used the IP tear-down instructions (written in French) to discover the alignment of the wobble-plate and the drive-shaft. Mine WAS in PROPERLY. I guess that's the good news AND the bad news. I am now putting the pump back together, but got tired and decided to write some.
Earlier, JGG asked if I got fuel spritzing out at the injector nuts. The answer is YES, big-time YES. I've been working into the night...I got the lines on the injectors but failed to tighten the nuts before I quit working one night...Next time I worked, I went to the next step and finally cranked the engine. There is a considerable amount of fuel sprayed all over the place!
I had to wash the rubber parts with detergent right away. Gee, I sure do have a nice clean engine room, now!
Still won't run tho. Even with the nuts properly tightened.
Am planning to send at least ONE of these pumps to a shop, probably the one in Oregon...but wish I had an idea of what it'll cost. I'm retired and have to think about that sort of thing....
 

clintontull

Vendor
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Location
USA
TDI
NONE
paramedick said:


Yes, you can get a bit of "wiggle" at the pump pulley if it moves.

Personally, I find it's easier to do a TB tension on an A4 rather than the A3/B4. I invariably have about 1 tooth of slack between the crank and the IP that is a pain to get out. If you don't get it out, you'll hear a "sproing" noise from the tensioner as the slack is released when turning the crank to check for interference. Then your cam/IP/crank will be out of alignment. Don't ask how I know this.....

I check for slack on the IP side very, very, VERY carefully prior to setting the tension.
after i changed my belt i have the a4 i noticed a little slack from the crank to the IP, after shutting it off the car sounded like a twang noise as soon or 2 seconds after shut down. is this the so called slack causing the noise? and my timing is was just a tad retarded so i bumped up the ip to advance it and it was moved @ 1/8 in above the green center line. should i be worried about that slack? or will that move as I advanced the IP?
 

clintontull

Vendor
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Location
USA
TDI
NONE
jollyGreenGiant said:
A thing that I always do that seems to take care of this issue is:

With the belt on and the cam pulley still loose but almost snuggged up ( allowed to rotate ) as well as all the other drive parts ( idler, tensioner, etc )

Make sure the pump is pinned properly and the crank is locked exactly at TDC.

By hand pull as much tension as you can on the pump side of the belt, sometimes you'll see that the belt is almost in between teeth, if this is the case, then use you counterhold tool on the cam pulley to engage the belt teeth and tighten the belt on the pump ( front side ) as much as possible and engage the tighter of the two possible positions where the teeth might fall into on the pump, if it's just way too tight ( on an A3/B4 ) then either the pump is adjusted too far in one direction or another or the slightly relaxed engagement is ideal. With the A3/B4 setup, you never know if someone has completely adjusted the pump one way or another, kind of a drawback I guess. If the relaxed engagement is allowing too much slack and you're unable to pull the belt to its next position using the counterholder tool on the cam then I suggest you loosen the pump mounting and adjust it back a bit to accomodate the new belt, remember you'll just have to adjust it anyways once you've got the basics done.

I hope this makes sense... in a nutshell, you should never have any real slack between the crank and the pump, all the slack needs to be on the tensioner side...
this happened to me yesterday. i felt a little slack but no matter how taught i pulled it would rise up on the next tooth just a little bit not enough to go 50/50 or center tooth to top of tooth on belt to carry over to the next tooth. am i off a tooth then ? it fired right up after the 3-4 bumps. did a very slight adjustment to the IP and i was a tad on the adv side is this in spec or do i need to get that slack out, move the ip on the bracked and redo??
 

clintontull

Vendor
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Location
USA
TDI
NONE
ok went out there started the car shut car off and more like 3 seconds after shutting down sounded like a swoosh/click is this the tensioner taking up slack and making the noise or is this just a elec. fuel pump shutting off or something. as i stated earlier the small slack from crank to ip was just enough to raise the belt onto the next tooth not enough to bring it up to sitting onto the next tooth. is my IP out of adjustment do i need to redo the IP and jump it over 1 tooth then readjust the pully??? it starts up fine is lined up everything runs took it for a test run but what is that swoosh at the end when shutting down? im concerned now.
 

clintontull

Vendor
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Location
USA
TDI
NONE
humm, did have a problem with tensioner, didnt have the lil elbo flange in the top left notch before torqing, thank god for double checking everything. once i put that back in place re-torqued everything it was ok. it does this more when its cold. and had a hard time starting this morning. but after warmed up it was fine. i retarded the timing to green line and changed the injection quantity to 3.4 or so.
 

91dodge

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Brownwood TX
TDI
97 PASSAT
255 for block 2 in basic setting

Warthog said:
96 Passat TDI, 1Z engine.
"After-action" report. Reset all rotating parts to set-up position. Checked for adequate fuel in pump, pump DOES suck fuel.
Cranked engine. Got a number in Gp-00, Block 2. 255.
Block 9 = 106. block 2 possibilities should fall between 10 and 90. 255 is obviously no good.
Rotated pump a little. cranked again. still get 255.
I went through all this 6 times and never got other than a 255 in block 2.
*IP pump pin still goes into the hole. (BTW, Andy. if everything is really lined up good, the pin should go on through the sheet metal and into the hole in the pump bracket . It's thick and the pin doesn't wobble there.)
*Cam lock plate still can be inserted easily.
*Flywheel marks on TDC.
*Block 2 reads 255 when engine is cranking smartly!
(Fortunately, my battery isn't spoiled...thought I'd ruined it the other day, but it took charge and I'm back in business again!)
Gee, I sure wish I had my 85 Jetta...even with the leaking roof, the failed AC...and NO electronics!

Can anyone out there suggest a source for the bent-wrench to easily get to the rear, lower fuel-line nut on the pump head?
I am have just replaced the seal for the injector head and will start after full advanced(pump play). VAG-COM to get closer to in time on chart it stays on 255 until running poorly and then jumps between 255 and 38. No other numbers and jumps between them.
 

SovietB4

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Location
SF Bay Area
TDI
1996 Passat TDI Wagon(1Z), 2005 TDI Passat, 2003 F-250 CC 6.0 Powerstroke
On most of the timing belt/chain jobs I do, I'll put the timing belt on the toothed pulley prior to the crank and then walk the crank about 1 or 2 teeth BEFORE top dead center so when you route the belt around the crank and put the crank back to TDC, all the slack between the two pulleys is gone and you're ready to perform the rest of the belt/chain job. ( I don't do the mark method)I always found it very hard to get this slack out otherwise (perhaps that is why you would try pushing on the pump locking pin noted above etc). That way the belt goes on easily and when you walk the crank back to perfect top dead center the belt is totally tight between the two pullies. This is just what I have found works on all the various motors I've worked on. I've had to do this for timing chains too. This is just what works for me...obviously everyone has thier own little tricks.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
A thing that I always do that seems to take care of this issue is:

With the belt on and the cam pulley still loose but almost snuggged up ( allowed to rotate ) as well as all the other drive parts ( idler, tensioner, etc )

Make sure the pump is pinned properly and the crank is locked exactly at TDC.

By hand pull as much tension as you can on the pump side of the belt, sometimes you'll see that the belt is almost in between teeth, if this is the case, then use you counterhold tool on the cam pulley to engage the belt teeth and tighten the belt on the pump ( front side ) as much as possible and engage the tighter of the two possible positions where the teeth might fall into on the pump, if it's just way too tight ( on an A3/B4 ) then either the pump is adjusted too far in one direction or another or the slightly relaxed engagement is ideal. With the A3/B4 setup, you never know if someone has completely adjusted the pump one way or another, kind of a drawback I guess. If the relaxed engagement is allowing too much slack and you're unable to pull the belt to its next position using the counterholder tool on the cam then I suggest you loosen the pump mounting and adjust it back a bit to accomodate the new belt, remember you'll just have to adjust it anyways once you've got the basics done.

I hope this makes sense... in a nutshell, you should never have any real slack between the crank and the pump, all the slack needs to be on the tensioner side...
and

On most of the timing belt/chain jobs I do, I'll put the timing belt on the toothed pulley prior to the crank and then walk the crank about 1 or 2 teeth BEFORE top dead center so when you route the belt around the crank and put the crank back to TDC, all the slack between the two pulleys is gone and you're ready to perform the rest of the belt/chain job. ( I don't do the mark method)I always found it very hard to get this slack out otherwise (perhaps that is why you would try pushing on the pump locking pin noted above etc). That way the belt goes on easily and when you walk the crank back to perfect top dead center the belt is totally tight between the two pullies. This is just what I have found works on all the various motors I've worked on. I've had to do this for timing chains too. This is just what works for me...obviously everyone has thier own little tricks.
Old thread, I know....

I think the above techniques may help with my car not running from being too retarded. We replaced the IP bracket and have monkeyed with moving the pump across the range so the pump is no longer about where it should be.

In order to implement the above recommendations, should we put the pump in the middle or pull it to the fully retarded spot (i.e. furthest from the engine and closer to the crank)? Maybe just putting the pump in the fully retarded spot to start might be good, then as the pump is moved, it'd be taking out the slack anyway?

Thanks,
Mark
 
Top