Start/Stop feature

[Cuzoe]

Good news folks... found another start/stop starter, coming DHL Express and there's movement already. A little over $80 shipped this time versus $40-ish last time, but that's probably the DHL Express cost and the last one was lost in free shipping purgatory so I'm good with this.

Just for those that also want to do this, that part number is 02M911024S.

 

[Cuzoe]

It's happening, DHL confirmed delivery for Tuesday . Neutral position sensor and pigtail arrived last week, battery sensor the week before.

Now who has recommendations on the safest way to drill into the transmission case 🫣.

 

[Ragdude]

Might be ok in the cooler months, but its hell in Phoenix having the AC turn off at each stoplight. Yes the fan stays running but within seconds its just blowing warm air at you.

 

[Nuje]

To those not following this epic quest closely, please remember this is primarily a "hmmm.....I wonder how/if this can be done" exercise, and much less a "I greatly need/want this feature".

Why, you ask?
To paraphrase a certain mountain climber: Because it's not there.

 

[Cuzoe]

The starter was delivered today... it's happening guys!!!

 

[milktree]

We have pushbutton start in both our Mk7's, but accessory position would be pushing the start button without the clutch pedal depressed . It's the same as turning the key without starting the car. There must be a automatic transmission version of that.

Except it's not really an accessory position the way I've seen in every metal-key car. "accessory" is "the accessories, but none of the engine functions". What you're describing is "run" (but with the engine not running)

"run" without the engine running draws a lot more power because it tries to run HVAC and all the engine management stuff.

And... you can't go from "engine running" to "not" without either stalling the engine, or turning everything off, then starting over. This is a nuisance (annoyance) if you're listening to a podcast that's over bluetooth, because everything resets. (or radio, where you can't even back up 15 seconds)

 

[milktree]

@milktree As a bad influence, my vote is MIB 2.5

So... do you know this actually works? Would it actually keep the radio going when the engine is turned off (until you open a door)

 

[Nuje]

Works this way in my MIB2; pretty sure MIB2.5 is the same.

 

[Cuzoe]

So... do you know this actually works? Would it actually keep the radio going when the engine is turned off (until you open a door)

Yes... I have had MIB II, then MIB II with nav, then MIB 2.5 (hacked Eurospec unit without SiriusXM), and now MIB 2.5 (North American Spec with SiriusXM). And along that journey I had the 6.5" matte screen, then the 8" matte screen, then the 8" glass screen, now the 9.2" all touch glass screen. How much money has been wasted, you may ask... I don't wanna talk about it .

But, through the entire non MIB I journey, radio keeps going when engine is turned off. I do not have KESSY.

And to your previous post, you are correct that VW's (at least these) don't actually have an accessory position. It's either OFF or ON/RUN, and of course momentary START position.

The closest thing to accessory is the end of a drive and turn the key to OFF. Engine stops, HVAC and all that stops... my radio remains on.

This includes the bluetooth receiver so I can still listen to music/podcasts/whatever. But not the bluetooth microphone stops working about 30 seconds after key OFF. It is actually powered by the MIB (and the CarNet module) but the mic only works with key in ON/RUN, not sure why it's programmed this way.

 

[pedroYUL]

... I do not have KESSY...

I do have KESSY, and it also works that way. Radio stays on until I believe driver door is opened. I don't recall how it was with MIB1

 

[Cuzoe]

I just checked in my car when I got to work this morning. Radio stays on until I remove the key from the ignition.
So shut off engine, key in OFF, opening/closing the driver door no impact, pull key out, radio turned off.
Also tuned key from OFF to ON/RUN without starting engine, door opened/closed, radio remained on.

 

[Cuzoe]

I know this is very important to none of yous, haha. But it seems you will also need the gear selector shaft if doing this retrofit.

Part number in our 6 speeds is 02Q301230H (since replaced by 230R)... does not have the neutral position sensor ring.

Part number needed is 02Q301230Q (originally 230N but not likely to find the old one)... which has the neutral position sensor ring.

On the bright side, the selector shaft was going to be removed (temporarily) anyway so you could stuff a rag/vacuum or something down there while you drilled out that hole in the transmission case for the neutral position sensor .

 

[Nuje]

So, when do you fire up the drill and starting removing metal?
Be sure to turn on the TikTok camera when you do so we get a front-row seat to the action.

 

[Cuzoe]

As soon as I can justify $350 for a selector shaft. These days I'm weighing that against a week of daycare .

 

[dieseldonato]

As soon as I can justify $350 for a selector shaft. These days I'm weighing that against a week of daycare .

Yep, we're counting down till both our kids are in school full time too. Daycare costs are ridiculous.

 

[Cuzoe]

Yep, we're counting down till both our kids are in school full time too. Daycare costs are ridiculous.

Most definitely! There were a couple places we visited that we knew within the first 10 minutes were going to be outrageously priced... And they were, approaching $600/week for full time. This is in Los Angeles. Needless to say, we haven't been back since the open house.

And then I have some friends in Texas who had the (unknown to them) audacity to complain to me about their daycare cost of $450/month. Not to say that's chump change because it certainly is not, it's just so good compared to what we can find here.

I even floated the idea of changing churches because there's a one near us that offers daycare at a thousand a month for members. I didn't even consider what religion we would be joining. I'll become a Rocket Scientologist if I have to .

And to bring it full circle, start-stop would be nice while I'm there to pick up the kiddo, keep that NOx away from those developing lungs.

 

[dieseldonato]

Most definitely! There were a couple places we visited that we knew within the first 10 minutes were going to be outrageously priced... And they were, approaching $600/week for full time. This is in Los Angeles. Needless to say, we haven't been back since the open house.

And then I have some friends in Texas who had the (unknown to them) audacity to complain to me about their daycare cost of $450/month. Not to say that's chump change because it certainly is not, it's just so good compared to what we can find here.

I even floated the idea of changing churches because there's a one near us that offers daycare at a thousand a month for members. I didn't even consider what religion we would be joining. I'll become a Rocket Scientologist if I have to .

And to bring it full circle, start-stop would be nice while I'm there to pick up the kiddo, keep that NOx away from those developing lungs.

Sign me up for that church!... $1600.00 month for 3 days a week part time.... would fund lots of fun projects, like your auto stop lol.

 

[Nuje]

Canada: Universal healthcare and $10/day daycare. And if you stick to the west coast, you don't even have to deal with real winter.
...so the engine warms up sooner, thus getting start-stop functionality to kick in sooner (he adds, desperately trying to keep the thread on-topic).

 

[Cuzoe]

I should move to Canada! My wife grew up (through middle school) in Vancouver. Both her parents were UBC grad students at the time. They often talk about how great it was raising kids there even as students with no jobs, technically.

My wife has dual citizenship, as does our son. I'm the odd one out but it my (not thorough) understanding is it shouldn't be too hard to get me taken care of, haha.

Still need a connection down here though, VW in Canada might want $1,000 for that selector shaft 🫣. I'll have to find a job at @Nuje's beloved aviation company, Bombardier!

 

[Nuje]

A mere $640CAD; but that's MSRP - I can usually get things around a third below that.

Canadian Forces air base here is always hiring civilian contractors....and the Feds just signed a deal to update the air fleet with F35s, so pretty sure your skillset would find a job pretty quickly.

 

[740GLE]

F35 the number 1 in job security for repair/technicians.

 

[Cuzoe]

MSRP down here is about $481... parity in this case. And 28% discount is about the best I've found.

I don't wanna work F35's, but I would (haha). I like my F-16s just fine. And working civilian aircraft has made me lazy.

Admittedly working military aircraft as a civilian looked like a pretty sweet/laid back gig when I would see them (I was active duty at the time). There were so many things the civilians (to their delight) weren't allowed to touch/work on because of security clearance and/or liability issues.

 

[Cuzoe]

We haven't given up on this now have we? Shift tower with neutral position sensor pickup has arrived .

https://flic.kr/p/2pm6z2Z https://flic.kr/p/2pm4k8g

 

[whizznbyu]

Nope,

While the Mk7 platform we have should support a retrofit, the cost to retrofit OEM system is going to be leagues more than the fuel you'll use unless you constantly drive in stop and go driving.

If it can be retrofitted, does it automatically mean that the starter we have in our cars in the USA is the same exact starter that Mk7's have in the rest of the thoughtful tree hugging world? And if so, then our starters will last infinitely longer than the ones that start and stop?

 

[Nuje]

If you go back some in this thread (around #150), you'll see that @Cuzoe was on the hunt for the bespoke starter that is spec'd for the start/stop feature in TDI.

 

[Cuzoe]

If it can be retrofitted, does it automatically mean that the starter we have in our cars in the USA is the same exact starter that Mk7's have in the rest of the thoughtful tree hugging world? And if so, then our starters will last infinitely longer than the ones that start and stop?

The starter is different and @Nuje correctly pointed out I've already "handled" issue and got one from ebay.de. From my old post...

The starter is also a different part number, presumably one with higher duty cycle. The correct start/stop starter does not seem to be available in the US, but is the most expensive part of this endeavor. I will probably do all this without changing the starter, as a test. If it works, I'll then disable start/stop until I replace the starter with the correct unit.

PN 02M911024M - should be installed currently - Mk7 TDI, PR Code G0K (6-speed manual) and 7L3 (without start/stop)
PN 02M911024S - the needed starter - Mk7 TDI, PR Code G0K (6-speed manual) and 7L6 (start/stop with regen braking)
- PR 7L6 with "regen braking" apparently has to do with our smart alternators, not to be confused with EV type regen braking

I confirmed 02M911024M was on the car and have the 02M911024S on hand, I think it ended up being under $150 shipped... it's been a while.

 

[whizznbyu]

I am curious how different a "start-stop" starter is to a non start stop, not just in material or construction, but circuitry, solenoid quality, etc

 

[whizznbyu]

I remember riding in a start stop car and when it restarted, I could barely feel it.

 

[Nuje]

Yeah - I've had a couple of them as rentals, and while noticeable (for me), my wife had no clue that the engine was turning off at every light. I don't see what the big antipathy is towards them - maybe for those who always want to be sure they're "first" from the traffic light...? If it was standard on my car, I'm sure I'd leave it on.

 

[Cuzoe]

I am curious how different a "start-stop" starter is to a non start stop, not just in material or construction, but circuitry, solenoid quality, etc

There's this... https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109687_dont-start-stop-systems-wear-out-your-cars-starter

I'm not suggesting that all, or even any, of the things mentioned in this article are incorporated into the start stop specific starter for our cars. Obviously the integration with cylinder deactivation/ position won't apply to us. I guess someone would have to do a tear down two of them to see what differs. Or get a real spec sheet from Valeo.

I'm not going to tear anything down but when I replace mine I'll take some side by side pictures, and maybe weigh them. Admittedly that isn't going to tell us very much, but they are different part numbers (and not superseding part numbers). So presumably there is something different.