Start/Stop feature

[Sublimize23]

Sorry if this has been asked before, it was hard to search with these particular terms.

In rental cars I’ve had in Europe I really enjoyed the start stop feature that would turn the engine off at red lights, etc. Do the American versions of the mk7 TDI have this feature? Mine is the SE model 6MT. Without the engine start button.

 

[740GLE]

Nope,

While the Mk7 platform we have should support a retrofit, the cost to retrofit OEM system is going to be leagues more than the fuel you'll use unless you constantly drive in stop and go driving.

 

[oilhammer]

I loathe that feature, and would disable it. Unless it was made "impossible" to do so, in which case I would not own the car.

I figured out how to do it on my dad's 2015 F150, thankfully.

On hybrids, where there is not a conventional starter motor or flywheel, it is fine. But just putting software in place that taxes an otherwise normal starter, battery, flywheel in the quest for carbon credits and .001 MPG increase I find it to be absurd.

I also think on diesels it is of less advantage than the gas engines.

 

[KERMA]

yes it is available, but it is turned off in the usa-market TDI.

No idea why someone would want it. If anything, most of them want a tune to turn it off.

 

[dubStrom]

Stop/Start was enabled on a loaner that I got from Dodge/Jeep dealership while my airbags were replaced (on the Ram 2500). It took me by surprise at the first stoplight.

It was a new Grand Cherokee. It seemed an after thought on a big SUV like that, and kind of odd since anyone really concerned about fuel economy wouldn't buy one of them anyway, or at least would prefer NOT to have it...

But the problem is that if anything causes your car to delay starting, it could result in some pretty unhappy people behind you, and hard on the starter. Also, it obviously leads to more starter motor, or solenoid/bendix replacement in the long run. That in itself is an expensive service, likely to obliterate the fuel "savings". As far as TDIs are concerned, fuel consumption at idle is really trivial to begin with.

 

[Ol'Rattler]

It was a new Grand Cherokee. It seemed an after thought on a big SUV like that, and kind of odd since anyone really concerned about fuel economy wouldn't buy one of them anyway, or at least would prefer NOT to have it...

Reminds me of the fat lady that orders a 3000 calorie meal and since she is on a diet, a Diet Pepsi. To those type of people you are destroying the planet by driving a Corolla while they are saving the planet by driving a flex fuel or Hybrid Tahoe.

 

[740GLE]

Other thing to think about is half the people are wanting to cut in a remote starter to warm up the car for 20 min before they head to work, now that makes sense, 'Merica!!!!

As for implementing the start stop, no way can it be just software, the battery and wiring and possibly starter are different on the auto start stop cars. From factory they come with an AGM battery with twice the capacity and ability to withstand the increased duty cycle, I'd have to wager other parts are changed out as well.

Rode in a 6spd manual Caddy with auto start stop, from the airport to the hotel in Budapest in fall of '16, the driver loved his torque monster, and was very proud of it.

 

[oilhammer]

Some have mechanical changes, some do not. It depends on the vehicle.

Some get a ~15% higher duty rated starter motor, some get a slightly larger battery. NONE of them get a better flywheel, and that would be of the greatest long term concern to me. The starter is obviously another, and when a lot of starters fail, particularly on Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, and others, they intermittently won't crank. And you can give them a tap and they will start working again. Well when that happens, normally the car is PARKED somewhere, and at least it can be towed. Imagine that happening out of the blue in some busy intersection?

And what good is a 15% higher rated starter if it is used 3000% as much?

 

[rc74racer]

I have this feature on my Grand Cherokee. I've been testing MPG with it for a couple weeks and it seems I get about 1 more MPG with autostart/stop enabled. Not really worth it, and it's something I will probably start disabling soon. It just comes on too many times for me, and I prefer driving with it off. I have to agree with most who say this feature is annoying, but I wanted to see for myself if it saved any fuel.

As far as my GC is concerned there is no lag, as soon as you take your foot off the brake the car starts, even letting up slightly will result in the car starting. This feature is not noticeable to anyone on the road.

And just because you choose or need to drive a larger vehicle doesn't mean you don't want to get the best MPG possible. If I didn't need a larger vehicle for towing I would definitely be in something more fuel efficient.

 

[dubStrom]

The flywheel. Yes, and that reminds me...I got a nice deal on a Toyota Camry wagon about a decade ago. Loaded gasser wagon I was going to tweak a few issues and give to my mom (left mirror dead, wiper blades, that sort of minor stuff). Seemed great. Then I discovered the patchy teeth on the flywheel. The starter spun freely or made a horrible grinding sound-occasionally catching. I had to manually move the flywheel to start it sometimes. And the rear lower control arms were bent from an over-exuberant tow truck operator with beefy nylon come along straps. Ouch. Not such a great deal afterall.

 

[TDIBone]

I loathe that feature, and would disable it. Unless it was made "impossible" to do so, in which case I would not own the car.

See my complaints about my rental Chev Cruze posted elsewhere. Was hoping the Diesel version didn't have that feature, but it does. Both the internet and the dealership confirmed it can't be disabled.

Other cars that had this feature are okay, but I found the Cruze wouldn't restart fast enough, or would choose to shut down just as the light turned green.

Only way around it I found was to pulse the brakes slowly while sitting still.

 

[TDIBone]

...It was a new Grand Cherokee. It seemed an after thought on a big SUV like that, and kind of odd since anyone really concerned about fuel economy wouldn't buy one of them anyway...

That and the weird shifter on the GC may have been factors in actor Anton Yelchin's (played Chekov in the new Star Trek movies) death by getting run over by his own Jeep. (Didn't realize he left it in gear and didn't hear it rolling towards him).

 

[oilhammer]

That and he did not set the parking brake, which for some reason so many people refuse to do.

The ZF electro-shift transmissions do have a delay in their operation. Use of the parking brake properly would avoid this.

We get about a half dozen crashed Charger police cars in here a year due to this. The driver flips them into Park while the car is still moving, no brake is ever set, and the TCM sees the car still moving and waits for it to stop before engaging the park mechanism. Except the driver never stopped the car. So... they roll away.

At least some of the Audis and Volkswagens with EPBs will instantly set the brake for you if the driver's door opens if the transmission is not in park or even if it has not yet moved to park.

 

[conejo_a_cuatro]

You guys are pretty funny. You make it sound like you have to run out and hand crank the car at every stop light. Our wagon starts and stops almost effortlessly, by the time your foot goes from the stop pedal to the go pedal, the engine is humming along. Got almost 70k miles (I know, just broken in for a diesel) but runs great. Also has a simple button to shut it off if it’s annoying you. I get that some people don’t like it, but it is in no way unsafe, and if you’re waiting for a bridge to open, or a massive traffic jam, why not have it? I used to do that manually on my golf.

 

[El Dobro]

From what I've read, GM will be using tandem solenoid starters in their start/stop vehicles.
http://www.globaldenso.com/en/newsr...bitions/2012/dae12/files/DAE12_ts_starter.pdf

 

[Grigg3]

Interesting, makes sense. Engage the pinion then energize the starter motor.
That link/brochure says
“Has the world’s first mechanism to separately control the forward slide of the pinion gear and the energization of the motor.”

Not the worlds first... not a new idea at all. The old Ingersoll Rand air starter in my truck does this, model 150BMP, or also the newer 150T has pre-engaged pinion before running the motor.
Most larger air starters are also pre-engaged, not so much for starting while flywheel is still moving, but to avoid chewing up the ring gear with a 35hp or more starter motor half engaged.

 

[Cuzoe]

Old thread but hey... anyone thinking of doing this retrofit?... or just me and @Nuje .

New battery > ground cable that includes the battery sensor PN 5Q0915181J

• This is the J367 Module and has a 2 pin connector, my dealer of choice has this new for $128
  • Can be had for under $50 used on eBay, shipping from the EU
  • I'll find the connector part number later and edit this post
• Pin 1 - LIN connection to Gateway (J533) Pin 3
  • same LIN wire that goes to alternator, pick it up where you want
  • Drawing shows available at TML - Left Engine Compartment coupling point, avoids wiring through firewall
• Pin 2 - 12V, engine bay fuse box, spot 18, 5A

Center console switch buttons, different part numbers depending on what your car already has...
5G1927137N control panel with pushbuttons (Driving MODE / Eco Stop-Start / Blank)
5G1927137P control panel with pushbuttons (Driving MODE / Eco Stop-Start / ESC OFF)
5G1927137S control panel with pushbuttons (Blank / Eco Stop-Start / ESC OFF)
5G1927137T control panel with pushbuttons (Blank / Eco Stop-Start / Blank)
Credit where due... these part numbers were pulled from user GolfDave's thread over on GolfMk7.
- You can find switch panels on AliExpress, and many come with harnesses/pins which is convenient.


If your car already has buttons here (10 pin connector) you only need to add two wires which go to the BCM

• Switch Panel pin 7 > BCM Plug C pin 51
• Switch Panel pin 4 > BCM Plug C pin 60

If your car has no buttons there you will also need

• Switch Panel pin 1 > Ground
• Switch Panel pin 2 > BCM Plug C pin 62
• This actually for background lighting, and you can tie into the shifter lights (DSG) or the cigarette lighter surround.
• Switch Panel pin 3 > BCM Plug C pin 34

The starter is also a different part number, presumably one with higher duty cycle. The correct start/stop starter does not seem to be available in the US, but is the most expensive part of this endeavor. I will probably do all this without changing the starter, as a test. If it works, I'll then disable start/stop until I replace the starter with the correct unit.

PN 02M911024M - should be installed currently - Mk7 TDI, PR Code G0K (6-speed manual) and 7L3 (without start/stop)
PN 02M911024S - the needed starter - Mk7 TDI, PR Code G0K (6-speed manual) and 7L6 (start/stop with regen braking)
- PR 7L6 with "regen braking" apparently has to do with our smart alternators, not to be confused with EV type regen braking


Then of course coding... adding the battery monitor to the gateway install list, BCM coding for the install of the button. Lots of other modules have coding for start/stop enabled so I'll have to go through those... minor concern I think.

 

[Nuje]

I actually just had an 2016 Audi A6 (non-TDI) as a loaner that had this start/stop feature and...I could see the value in it if I lived in LA traffic. Given that my GSW is the "long road trip" vehicle and I don't live in LA (although visit occasionally)....oh who am I kidding; of course this is getting added to the "to do list".

I'm curious as to how it'd feel in a manual car (the A6, of course, was a very smooth automatic...the one positive thing I can say about that car).

I guess you're sitting at a light or whatever with foot on brake, car in neutral, then you push in the clutch pedal and shift into first, foot off the brake pedal and that's when car fires up (?). Or it starts when you press in clutch pedal ?

 

[Cuzoe]

Clutch pedal in should do it, I don't "believe" the car knows what gear you're in until the clutch is out then speed/rpm are used for determination... except reverse of course.

I think there was a post GolfMK7 where somebody swapped a 6MT into what started life as a 5MT gasser and one of the little quirks was incorrect gear indication.

I think what will happen is sitting at a light, 0 speed, foot on the brake... Engine stops when your foot comes off the clutch, which indicates you're in neutral.

 

[hskrdu]

Old thread but hey... anyone thinking of doing this retrofit?... or just me and @Nuje .

I love the retrofits you guys do, but if my GSW came with this, my retrofit would be to disable it! I do like those additional center console buttons, though- what we need is some cool wiring projects to connect those to a variety of fun things.

 

[Cuzoe]

I've got all the center console buttons. Started with none and retrofit-ed everything. The only one that doesn't perform it's OEM function is the start/stop... for now .

 

[oilhammer]

I can't imagine why anyone would actually want this any more than they'd want chlamydia.

 

[Cuzoe]

I myself am not constrained by others' imaginations, haha. Assuming I get it working, I may never use it. That's a simple change that can be made to my custom driving mode/profile dataset to disable it. It's worth noting I have also retrofitted internal and external soundaktors... which also appear beyond folks imaginations. They can be turned on/off at will in the driving profiles as well.

 

[hskrdu]

I would like some center console buttons to activate sounds, so that I can use phasers and photon torpedos to keep tailgaters and aggressive drivers at bay.

 

[Cuzoe]

I would like some center console buttons to activate sounds, so that I can use phasers and photon torpedos to keep tailgaters and aggressive drivers at bay.

Easy... retrofit the external soundaktor, which I have done...

What did you do to your MK7 today?

Found me a 2015 Golf SW SEL, TDI, CRUA. Has 120k miles with full records of all service at VW dealership. I paid through the nose, but the car is beautiful. I drove it home to Detroit from Eastern PA, what an upgrade from my MK4 and MK5. Now researching the timing belt replacement and trying...

forums.tdiclub.com

What did you do to your mk7 today?

Do you only have to do that for electronic parking brakes? Yes. The standard parking brake cars need only a caliper compression tool. Make sure to lube the sliders and install them correctly as well.

www.golfmk7.com

Edit and load up custom, VIN unlocked, firmware to the module, adding the sounds you want...

Soundaktor firmware updates are now possible :-)

I guess the soundaktor is quite controversial... bringing fake sound to the cockpit. But some time ago, I cracked the checksum mechanisms of the soundaktor firmware, so now it's possible to flash different firmwares on your soundaktor! I'm running an Audi RS4 firmware on mine, which has a...

www.golfmk7.com

GitHub - jilleb/mqb-soundaktor: 010 Editor template to parse the contents of MQB Soundaktor data.

010 Editor template to parse the contents of MQB Soundaktor data. - GitHub - jilleb/mqb-soundaktor: 010 Editor template to parse the contents of MQB Soundaktor data.

github.com

Order and install the e-Golf center console button
https://flic.kr/p/2opMcSs

 

[Nuje]

Well....I guess it'd just be the *sound* of the phasers and photon torpedos we can add; actual working hardware not quite as readily retrofittable.

Also sitting in the garage waiting for my time/attention is the waving-foot-under-rear-bumper-activated powered hatch lift for the GSW. Button for it is supposed to go on the steering column somewhere, but my hope/plan is to assign it a button around the shifter.

 

[hskrdu]

Hmmm. This might tempt me to consider it. If we can work out the retrofit of the phaser banks, I'm all in.

 

[Cuzoe]

And so I remember, or for @hskrdu... that center console button with the sound button is PN 5GE927137B. To have the external soundaktor work you're going to need driving modes anyway, so this switch set gets you both buttons .

 

[oilhammer]

I would say you guys need a hobby, but I spent the better part of an entire weekend putting together my Lego collector series Razorcrest, so....

Pot, meet kettle!

 

[Nuje]

As people who don't work on VWs for a living, this is our hobby.

I will add, though, that my buying finger got mighty twitchy hovering over the BUY button on this Lego set.

https://www.costco.ca/lego-technic-lamborghini-sian-fkp-37-42115-.product.100718875.html