Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating system!

Occams_Razor

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Location
Dayton, Ohio
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, Reflex Silver
[ QUOTE ]
I'm on the phone with Dan now...there is no way this unit is coming under $1000.00.

He's going to post something up on the Vortex. The prices vary per vehicle, tranmission and engine code.

The heating unit alone is $600. Add to that the installation kit, fuel kit and you've broken the $1000 threshold.

Chad's price seems right on target. Ouch. /images/graemlins/eek.gif

L

[/ QUOTE ]

From the 'Tex:

[ QUOTE ]
Also I just wanted to let people know that we do offer 90 days same as cash for people that would like to spread out the payments for 3 months.

Please email for information at dgrayson@hillsideimports.com

Dan@Hillside Imports
4402 SW Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy
Portland, OR 97221-3660
1 877-581-8204
HillsideImports.com
dgrayson@hillsideimports.com

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 

TheRedMagi

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Location
Chalfont, PA
TDI
Golf GLS, 2003, Reflex Silver
So does anyone know where this mounts under the hood?

I've been looking at the espar units and we are talking about a 10"x4"x7" box that we need to mount and hook, coolant, fuel and power to. Might be a bit of disembly involved /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have an email into Espar to see if they have anything smaller but it looks like the hydronic D4 is the smallest.

I'll let you know what I find out,
 

Michael Moore

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2001
Location
Toronto / Zürich
TDI
2004 Phaeton W12, 2015 Golf Highline (gas)
Hello All:

Here are some pictures of the pre-heater unit. I took these at an auto show in Switzerland last year. The pre-heater is manufactured for VW by Webasto, who also sell it as a stand-alone retrofit kit. It is very expensive - about USD 900 if you order it as a factory option on your Golf or Jetta, and about USD 1,400 if you purchase it as an aftermarket retrofit kit.

When installed at the VW factory as part of the OEM build of the car, it is located in the front left wheelwell area, in the same place as the two horns are located.

I spent some time talking to the manager of Webasto in Switzerland, who told me that the market for these is pretty much confined to people who live in REALLY cold areas - for example, in mountain villages in the Alps, or people who live in Northern Norway, Sweden, or Finland. It seems that this is a useful gadget to have if you are expecting outside air temperatures of -20°C or less, and you don't have access to indoor storage for your car, or an electrical outlet to operate a block, cabin, or coolant recirculating heater.

Most people buy the unit as a convenience item in order to avoid having to scrape ice and snow off the windows in the morning. The unit is hooked into the controls for the heater fan circuit, once the coolant is warm enough, it starts to circulate through the engine and heater box, and the heater fan comes on at the low setting and circulates it through the cabin.

I had a look at it, then dismissed the idea of retrofitting it. Perhaps if I lived in Northern Quebec or Alberta, and did not have a garage, it might be attractive.

The pre-heater can be ordered in either a diesel model or a gasoline model, meaning, it will burn either fuel. It consumes about half a litre an hour of fuel - not really much, because you normally program it to come on about 2 to 3 hours before you plan to use the car. It draws electricity from the battery, but this is not a problem – what little bit the heater draws over a few hours to run the fan (and itself) is about what is saved in the starting cycle because the engine is already warm. So it’s a washout.

On the OEM installations, the heater is controlled through the display system of the radio (the high-end radio with the navigation system). If you also order an integrated phone system with your VW, it is possible to phone the car, press a few buttons on your phone, and either turn the heater on or program a start time from a remote location. If it is installed as an aftermarket item, you get a little remote control like the door unlocking device to control it.

My ‘two cents’ opinion: It's about the same price as an OEM xenon retrofit. Unless I lived in a really cold place and had no garage and no electricity available, I'd spend my money on OEM xenons first. Most people who live in really cold places in North America have access to an electrical outlet for a plug-in heater (cabin, block, coolant recirculation, whatever). This is not usually the case in Europe, hence, the market for these ‘standalone’ pre-heaters.

Here's some pictures:

Webasto Heater on display stand at auto show
Blue tubes are coolant flow, silver tube (corrugated) is combustion exhaust, short silver tube with black rubber end is the air intake (combustion supply), small green can contains fuel.


Cutaway photo showing inside of heater


Electronics inside heater
 

TheRedMagi

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Location
Chalfont, PA
TDI
Golf GLS, 2003, Reflex Silver
That's awesome Micheal. Thanks!

Yet another item I wish I could have ordered on my Golf. Would have saved 500 bucks.

I'm seriously thinking about it for next winter... Its insane to have to manually scrap all the ice of the windscreen or drive half blind for 5 miles, everytime its right around freezing here in MI. We've been in the single digits way too much this winter for me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now if only we had heated steering wheels.
 

Michael Moore

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2001
Location
Toronto / Zürich
TDI
2004 Phaeton W12, 2015 Golf Highline (gas)
I'm normally pretty enthusiastic about new goodies, but for some reason I can't get excited about this pre-heater. For starters, it needs at least an hour - at a minimum - to do anything, more like two hours if you want to generate enough heat to clear the windows. I generally don't plan that far ahead of time.

I think a combination of a plasticized fabric sheet that goes over the windshield (dealers give them out free here in Switzerland as promo items) to keep the frost off the windshield, and a $99 in-line coolant heater connected to a $15 electrical extension cord would do the same job, equally as well, for much less daily expense (electricity consumption vs. fuel consumption) and about one-fifteenth the capital cost...

Michael
 

CB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Location
ga
TDI
97 Black
My *control unit* is mounted in the cubby hole under the radio. Tiny, and one button start. (exact size of a 97' headlamp switch box) 3 timer memory locations hit it once for 7am twice for 3pm 3 times for other setting, or just start, and it automaticly passes up timer settngs which have already past (eg get to work touch button once 3:30 is displyed leave the car) Also any momentary remote input can easily be wired into whatever aux ouput from an alarm /remote start /unlock input you have. Will run for up to 60 minutes selectable in minutes, and is pretty frugal on fuel. I have diagrams on how to properly wire it, which I can send, fuel inlet see below. With the wiring on the AC compressor, and the way the fan speed is selected, it is impossible to do without disconnecting the fan motor out of the system when active, (relay) and mine has two solid state timers to cycle the heater blower, to keep the battery drain down and clear the window. Mine uses .1 gallons an hour on high, and automatically drops to low if temp is reached before the timer expires (.05 gallons an hour on low).(5.5K BTU low- 13.7K BTU boost) +You really want a unit like the Espar D4 SC 25 1917 01, with the fuel pump built in. Been working fine, for 2 years now. clears the windows within 10-20 min. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
Pics of install http://home.woh.rr.com/stoker/Stokers%20homepage%20four3p%202p%203.html http://www.espar.com/pdfs/hydronic4_5.pdf manual
Regards
CB&SToker
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Well,

No, I don't live in Buffalo or in what one would consider a cold climate.

I don't have a garage, access to 110volt outlets and will probably never build a garage. I'd like one, believe me.

But on Friday, my Fancy VW heater arrived from Dan /images/graemlins/smile.gif I know, I know. Well, the good news is we'll soon find out how easy it is to install.

I spent all weekend translating the German instructions, going through the wiring diagrams and parts and I believe I've got this thing figured out pretty well.

I'm planning on documenting the installation process and will also try and assemble a PDF on it. Hopefully, we'll still have cool mornings this week so I can test this out.

L
 

TheRedMagi

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Location
Chalfont, PA
TDI
Golf GLS, 2003, Reflex Silver
Tongsli,

A pdf would be awesome.. Keep us posted on how it goes. Still hoping to get one next winter.

Thanks,
 

GeWilli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 6, 1999
Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
[ QUOTE ]


I am not getting this heater....
I am not getting this heater....
I am not getting this heater....
I am not getting this heater....
I am not getting this heater....
I am not getting this heater....
I am not getting this heater....

one more time,

I am not getting this heater....

L

[/ QUOTE ]


you got it didn't you /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Yeah,

Dan kinda twisted my arm, NOT! I've put in 6 hours and probably still have 3-6 more to go.

I've got the unit installed with fuel lines run from the rear pump, wiring into the car. Need to splice one wire under the battery and the battery, airbox etc,etc can go back in.

A few wire splices, coolant hose hook ups, and fuel tap and I'm done.

I'll post some pictures soon.

Lito
 

enn

New member
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Just a remark, the Webasto heater on the pic is a Termo Top E it is also made in a Termo Top C version (4000 w versus 5500 watt) it does not take 2-3 hours for the Termo top to heat engine and cabin - at -20`c it takes max 30 minuttes and around 0`c it takes around 15 minutes. The unit uses around 0,4 litre an hour runing at full effect, it can be controlled by a timer in car that is preprogrammed - or by a remote control (with display where you can see inside temp in car etc) or by mobile phone. Webasto have been making these heaters for decades they are wery reliable and a real pleasure to have in your car.
 

Bear

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Location
Westminster, Maryland
TDI
Golf GL 2 dr 2003 Mojave Beige, ESP, CWP, Monsoon, 2003.5 console
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

Cold out today... 4F this morning in this part of MD. How are the heaters working folks?
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

Heater is working great! Use it every morning. Car absolutely loves it.

Lito
 

schultzy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Location
Annapolis, MD
TDI
Golf GLS TDI PD, 2004, Reflex Silver/Grey Velour
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

Heater is working great! Use it every morning. Car absolutely loves it.

Lito
Just for the record, I'm insanely jealous!


*still need to install TDIHeater....(but I DO have heated seats! neener, neener, NEEner!)
 

vwxyzero

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Los Angeles, CA
TDI
'96 Passat Sedan, '96 TDI Passat Wagon, & Jetta Sedan, '83 Turbodiesel (IDI)
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

Jealous? Me too.

For a completely different reason though.

Does anyone know if any of the diesel fired parking heaters will fire and run on B100 (100% biodiesel with no addatives)

I want one if they do.

Thanks, vwxyzero
 

Kennedy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

Jealous? Me too.

For a completely different reason though.

Does anyone know if any of the diesel fired parking heaters will fire and run on B100 (100% biodiesel with no addatives)

I want one if they do.

Thanks, vwxyzero
I don;t knowthe answer but I'm 99% sure they will work just fine... I'm more curious why you would need this in Los Angeles.
 

vwxyzero

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Los Angeles, CA
TDI
'96 Passat Sedan, '96 TDI Passat Wagon, & Jetta Sedan, '83 Turbodiesel (IDI)
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

I don;t knowthe answer but I'm 99% sure they will work just fine... I'm more curious why you would need this in Los Angeles.
You mean sunny Southern California? It’s a myth! Yes, in LA-LA land there is seldom a need. But in the winter, when I get a chance, I spend as much time in the mountains as possible doing what some would call controlled sliding, or just simply taking in the breath taking views. And, my daughter lives in Jackson Hole Wyoming and practices controlled sliding too.

Aside from that I simply like solving problems, and running B100 year round without additives is a problem for many biodiesel users and has been a problem for me too this year.

Satisfy your curiosity?
 

Kennedy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

Sure...
Good luck. It's a big investment for what limited use you'd get from it, but that's your call.
Have you consider the $100 tdiheater in the interim?
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

Lito, I bet you're luvin' that heater this winter. Out of curiosity, can you drive with the thing turned on to add supplemental heat if you were going to travel only a short distance? It seems like that would be a home run and it's got to be better for the car as well since everything is warmed up prior to starting the engine.

This lack of heat in diesel cars is becoming a sour issue in Europe since gasser and diesel sales equal one another in most areas. Many 1st time dieselers aren't long-distance drivers and may only drive the car a few miles per day. Not having heat in the cabin is a low point for the new dieseling experience. I guess a few mfrs are addressing it NOW and more will follow suit by adding some form of supplemental heat.

Lito, you're way ahead of the crowd!
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

DD,

As a matter of fact, I was speaking with Birdman about his bus-driving days and how he used to keep the bus' auxillary heater running when they would idle in order to generate heat.

So one day, on my way home I turned on the heater(using the remote)and immediately got into the car. Even after starting the car, the heater stays on.

I parked in a garage and there is usually a line of cars waiting to pay and exit. By the time I got up to the top, paid and drove 1/2 mile away it was up to operating temperature.

Clearly faster than letting the engine warm everything up! This to me is one advantage over a heater that requires a plug/electrical outlet.

L
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

Whoa!! Very kewl



Can you regulate the amount of heat coming out or is it just "one speed"?
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

The auxillary heater also controls your ventilation fan. So when you're not in the car, you should leave it on 1 or 2 and it will automatically turn on your fan. The thing I've noticed is that it won't start the fan until there is actual heat to circulate.

I'm not sure what it does for a car with climatronic, but the wiring is different.

I also don't know if the heating unit regulates itself to burn more or less fuel as it's warming but it is thermostatically controlled for safety reasons.

L
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

the high level of system integration is really nice. I didn't realize it was that good.

Do you ever have any exhaust odor or smell from the burnt diesel fuel?


thx.
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

DD,

I don't know why, but none at all.

L
 

meganuke

TDIClub Contributor, Vendor
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Location
VA/CT
TDI
2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

I've been searching, but can't find part numbers for this. I'd like the Euro one for the longer range, and the remote and timer options. Can anyone help? Lito, Chad?
 

251

TDI Owner/Operator
Joined
May 11, 2002
Location
NW IN
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

I've been searching, but can't find part numbers for this. I'd like the Euro one for the longer range, and the remote and timer options. Can anyone help? Lito, Chad?
Try looking on German eBay - they pop up there now and then. FYI - Chad is in Iraq last I heard and not doing the euro VW parts now for us as a result.
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: Standheizungen, OEMoption to ESPAR heating sys

Buying those parts through VW is insanely expensive. You're better off searching german ebay for the remote. Most kits come with the digital timer.
 
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