Stage 3.5 Complete!!

Lilryan

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Location
Burlington, KS
TDI
2014 Golf
Big thanks to Ben at Ben's TDI Service in Nevada, MO. He is the man when it comes to TDI work in my neck of the woods. Ben had previously done my Stage 2 tune and I went to him to have the Stage 3.5 work done. I went with a Buzzken downpipe with resonator and a cat back with a muffler. Here is what the parts look like next to each other.



You can really see how restrictive the stock down pipe is


Here are the turbos up close.


The car runs great! I was worried about the noise, but it really is almost just like stock. You can tell when you start the car that things are different. It kind of makes this throaty grunt, but then it idles down and sounds completely stock inside the car. If you walk around to the back of the car, it is a little louder.

Here is what the exhaust looks like from the back





I feel like it sticks out a little too much. I guess that is the way this was supposed to fit, but I am going to shorten the tail pipe to tuck the tips back under the car.

The car is almost as quiet as stock when cruising down the road. I did a lot of searching and couldn't find a soundclip of this setup, so I will try to get one on Youtube for other people to hear. When you step on the throttle, it makes this throaty growl. The car can now utilize sport mode. I felt like it held gears too long before and the car was actually faster in normal drive, but now it can make power higher and feels great. I do experience a little shudder occasionally if I bog it in D, so just click it down a gear or put it in S and it will quickly downshift and the shudder is not there.

I should mention that there is a haze when accelerating hard. Noticeable to me in the car looking in the mirror. Some people may not like that. I am sure a little more fine tuning could clean that up. There is no doubt this is a diesel now lol.

So was it worth the investment? I think it will be in the long run. The car is a lot more fun to drive. I hope that the dpf and egr delete will help keep my engine healthy and last many miles.

Next on my list are a racepipe, my Fluidampr is in the mail, and a 2Micron filter kit for now. I will be doing the cp3 swap when I get closer to needing a timing belt.

Any questions about anything, feel free to ask. Just wanted to share my experience.

Ryan
 

air1mtt

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Location
Northeast
TDI
2013 Golf TDI: took buyout, 2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI: took buyout
nice job, hope the engine lasts a good long time. enjoy
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Sweet!

In for the sound clips.
I believe buzz extends the tailpipe back that far to reduce the amount of drone.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Pretty awesome write up Ryan. Wish I did something similar for mine. What exactly is your setup for monitoring EGTs? Right now, I just watch mine with PolarFIS (having the Stage 3). Yup, I don't envy the setup on the right in your first picture. I have all that crap in a box in the garage. My turbo isn't as rusty, but had a mechanic friend feel the turbine for play and he said it was good I replaced the turbo when I did.

I, too, noticed when you start it up, it sounds like a small backfire initially, and somewhat sounds like stock, although a little throatier. Driving normally, it's not that much louder, unless you really step on it. As for rolling coal, it seems to happen for me between 3600 and the high 4000s. Is your Golf a stick or DSG? I also opted for a louder engine, and removed the top cover (my tuner said it's only there for noise suppression and nothing else, and I like that idling diesel sound). The fast acceleration is definitely awesome - made for a fun drive yesterday with a Ford dually speeding in front of me and another Candy White JSW behind me on the highway. And you've got to have one of the shortest license plates I've seen!
 

vwjettadsl

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Location
Missouri
TDI
TDI’s
Ryan's car was the first Stage 3.5 install I have completed, gotta say I had fun doing it, lol. Love the way it pulls, makes my 99.5 Jetta w/Stage 4 mods seem pathetic, haha. It has made me renew my search for a Jetta or JSW CR TDI to replace my 99.5 Jetta with.

But one quick note for others considering this, all the info I found on installation said that the passenger side axle had to be removed from the car in order to remove the turbo. I simply disconnected the axle from the transmission axle flange leaving the outer side still attached and untouched, then removed the DPF and EGR cooler from the car. After that I was able to remove the old turbo and install the new CR170 turbo by slipping it in and out of the opening above the subframe (where the downpipe normally sits). Helps to have the heat shielding removed though when doing this. Hopefully this tidbit will save someone a lot of time and effort if doing the install themselves.

Cheers,
Ben
 
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ShawnShady

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Location
Idk
TDI
2013 Jetta TDi 3 Pedals
Yes, you only need to unbolt the axle from the tranny and move to the side. Rawtek's instructions clearly state this.
 

vwjettadsl

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Location
Missouri
TDI
TDI’s
Yes, you only need to unbolt the axle from the tranny and move to the side. Rawtek's instructions clearly state this.
Glad to hear they have it listed in their instructions, other places do not. It's a definite time saver.

Already have two more CR170 turbos on the shelf waiting to go into customers cars, definitely a worth while mod.

Ryan, whenever you find out your average MPG post it. Might be awhile though, too tempting to enjoy that extra power, lol.

Cheers,
Ben
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Glad to hear they have it listed in their instructions, other places do not. It's a definite time saver.

Already have two more CR170 turbos on the shelf waiting to go into customers cars, definitely a worth while mod.

Ryan, whenever you find out your average MPG post it. Might be awhile though, too tempting to enjoy that extra power, lol.

Cheers,
Ben

Ben - what kind of setup are y'all using to monitor EGTs are the EGT sensors are disabled pre-turbo? I really want to get the Stage 3.5 upgrade, but I'm still stuck on what I need in the way of a probe and gauge (and anything else needed).
 

vwjettadsl

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Location
Missouri
TDI
TDI’s
Ben - what kind of setup are y'all using to monitor EGTs are the EGT sensors are disabled pre-turbo? I really want to get the Stage 3.5 upgrade, but I'm still stuck on what I need in the way of a probe and gauge (and anything else needed).
I believe Ryan is planning on getting a Polar FIS soon. We tested the car and monitored the EGT's via VCDS and the highest temp recorded was 1425*F. I also tested the car before I did the CR170 install and the highest EGT reading I got was 1550*F, so EGT's were lower after the Stage 3.5 upgrade. Please bear in mind though that this was done all done in winter temps, on level ground and I only did two logs on 1/4 miles runs @ WOT (monitored a lot more while driving, but only took two logs). I still recommend having an EGT gauge.

As for EGT sensors, no extra probe needed. Car is running two factory EGT sensors, the G235 Temperature sensor #1, black connector (goes directly into the exhaust manifold) and the G448 Temperature sensor #2, orange connector (goes into the downpipe). You simply need to swap the plugs, so orange goes to black and black goes to orange. You will have to modify the plugs in order to swap them around, but its not that difficult, I used a dremel tool and made short work of it.

Also boost increased from 21.5 PSI with Stage 2 to 29.4 PSI with Stage 3.5 and CR170.

Hope this info helps. :)

-Ben
 
Last edited:

Lilryan

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Location
Burlington, KS
TDI
2014 Golf
Thanks for all the comments guys. I do plan on getting the PolarFIS to monitor my EGT's. The reading I have done says it should still work fine. My stock turbo only had 36xxx miles on it, so I expect my other one to look that way soon. I'm not sure I would notice any more drone with the tips moved in. I do think it would look better if they were closer to the car. I will work on getting a soundbite so everyone can here what it sounds like. My smoke is in the upper rpm too. I will have to pay attention and see exactly when it does it.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
I believe Ryan is planning on getting a Polar FIS soon. We tested the car and monitored the EGT's via VCDS and the highest temp recorded was 1425*F. I also tested the car before I did the CR170 install and the highest EGT reading I got was 1550*F, so EGT's were lower after the Stage 3.5 upgrade. Please bear in mind though that this was done all on level ground and I only did two logs on 1/4 miles runs @ WOT (monitored a lot more driving, but took two logs). I still recommend having an EGT gauge.

As for EGT sensors, no extra probe needed. Car is running two factory EGT sensors, the G235 Temperature sensor #1, black connector (goes directly into the exhaust manifold) and the G448 Temperature sensor #2, orange connector (goes into the downpipe). You simply need to swap the plugs, so orange goes to black and black goes to orange. You will have to modify the plugs in order to swap them around, but its not that difficult, I used a dremel tool and made short work of it.

Also boost increased from 21.5 PSI with Stage 2 to 29.4 PSI with Stage 3.5 and CR170.

Hope this info helps. :)

-Ben
Kind of. My tuner, who is a Malone dealer, told me that 3 of the 4 EGT sensors are disabled in software, and since the connector for EGT 1 is moved to EGT 2, you cannot monitor pre-turbo EGT, only post. I actually bought PolarFIS from someone on this forum (super cheap, only $125 and easy to install) so I could look at EGT. I think the highest I've got was about 1500-1600ish, but WOT, be it level ground or a slight incline. I don't keep it that high, obviously.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Thanks for all the comments guys. I do plan on getting the PolarFIS to monitor my EGT's. The reading I have done says it should still work fine. My stock turbo only had 36xxx miles on it, so I expect my other one to look that way soon. I'm not sure I would notice any more drone with the tips moved in. I do think it would look better if they were closer to the car. I will work on getting a soundbite so everyone can here what it sounds like. My smoke is in the upper rpm too. I will have to pay attention and see exactly when it does it.
Can't speak for the 3.5, but on my 3, it rolls coal over the 3600 range. Usually when it's over 4000 and I'm hauling a$$ with WOT...
 

vwjettadsl

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Location
Missouri
TDI
TDI’s
Kind of. My tuner, who is a Malone dealer, told me that 3 of the 4 EGT sensors are disabled in software, and since the connector for EGT 1 is moved to EGT 2, you cannot monitor pre-turbo EGT, only post. I actually bought PolarFIS from someone on this forum (super cheap, only $125 and easy to install) so I could look at EGT. I think the highest I've got was about 1500-1600ish, but WOT, be it level ground or a slight incline. I don't keep it that high, obviously.
The sensors have the error codes deleted and will not cause runability issues if unplugged. However if they are plugged in they will work just as before, I was able to monitor both EGT sensors that I reinstalled using VCDS. It's just that sensor #1 is connected to #2 plug and sensor #2 is connected to #1 plug. But both will work and can be read via VCDS.

I was confused about the function of the sensors also until Mark Malone explained it to me last week. Your dealer probably just hasn't had the first hand experience yet, which is understandable.

Cheers,
Ben
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
I thought there were 3 sensors?
I currently have "egt", "dpf in" and "dpf out" that I monitor with PolarFIS. Is there one I'm missing?

Edit, bone stock (for now :D).
 

vwjettadsl

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Location
Missouri
TDI
TDI’s
There are 4 EGT sensors:

G235 Temperature sensor #1, black connector- 03L 906 088 L
G448 Temperature sensor #2, orange connector- 03L 906 088 T
G495 Temperature sensor #3, brown connector- 03L 906 088 J
G648 Temperature sensor #4, post DPF, orange connector (same as #2)- 038 906 088 G

#3 and #4 get deleted if you go with aftermarket exhaust.
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Do you know what they are called in polarfis? I got 3 of the 4 in the post above.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
The sensors have the error codes deleted and will not cause runability issues if unplugged. However if they are plugged in they will work just as before, I was able to monitor both EGT sensors that I reinstalled using VCDS. It's just that sensor #1 is connected to #2 plug and sensor #2 is connected to #1 plug. But both will work and can be read via VCDS.

I was confused about the function of the sensors also until Mark Malone explained it to me last week. Your dealer probably just hasn't had the first hand experience yet, which is understandable.

Cheers,
Ben
Well, if Mark himself explained this to you for the 3.5, then I won't question what you're saying. And that's good news for me, because getting information on the whole EGT gauge and probe has been a pain in the a$$ to get information on.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
I thought there were 3 sensors?
I currently have "egt", "dpf in" and "dpf out" that I monitor with PolarFIS. Is there one I'm missing?

Edit, bone stock (for now :D).
From what I was told, EGT is supposed to be pre-turbo. I would assume DPF-in is post turbo, pre-dpf, but I'm not absolutely certain. But yes, we're kinda missing one value, and stock or modded, it should still show up on PolarFIS (whether or not a proper value is read is another story).
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
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Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The readings from the first two egt sensors are all that are needed for a stage 3.5 tune. The preturbo g235 sensor has a tendency to burn out which is why I replaced it with a probe/pyrometer on my car. The second two egt sensors are only useful if you still have the dpf installed.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
The readings from the first two egt sensors are all that are needed for a stage 3.5 tune. The preturbo g235 sensor has a tendency to burn out which is why I replaced it with a probe/pyrometer on my car. The second two egt sensors are only useful if you still have the dpf installed.
Do you still have the DPF on yours? So this brings me to my original question - what specific probe would I need to measure EGTs? Several have given me suggestions on pyrometers, but something with a straight digital readout (not analog) would be preferred. Then I gotta figure out where to mount it.

So would I be right to assume that PolarFIS would be useless for measuring EGTs once I do a 3.5?
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
I'll also have to let y'all know what I think of Stage 3.5. Supposed to get it done today on the way to Ft Worth for business.

What kind of fuel economy do you get when just cruising Lilryan? I'm getting about 36-39, depending on small hills in my area. Over 40mpg is pretty common when it's flat.
 

raider929

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Location
VA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
I'll also have to let y'all know what I think of Stage 3.5. Supposed to get it done today on the way to Ft Worth for business.

What kind of fuel economy do you get when just cruising Lilryan? I'm getting about 36-39, depending on small hills in my area. Over 40mpg is pretty common when it's flat.
My stage 3.5 gets ~42mpg cruising at ~75mph on a mostly flat 4 hour drive I make somewhat frequently. In northern VA's terrible traffic it's usually 33mpg. That number seems low for a TDI but I'm not sure there are many cars that pull better numbers in this traffic, certainly none that are as fun to drive.

Mine's a DSG, I think the manuals have a taller 6th gear so I'd expect they'd do a little better on the highway.
 

YukonLT

Veteran Member - TDIClub Enthusiast
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Nov 28, 2012
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N/A
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2010 Golf TDI 6MT
Congrats on the Stage 3.5 set up. I was quite impressed with the difference between 3 and 3.5...and happy about it :D
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
My stage 3.5 gets ~42mpg cruising at ~75mph on a mostly flat 4 hour drive I make somewhat frequently. In northern VA's terrible traffic it's usually 33mpg. That number seems low for a TDI but I'm not sure there are many cars that pull better numbers in this traffic, certainly none that are as fun to drive.

Mine's a DSG, I think the manuals have a taller 6th gear so I'd expect they'd do a little better on the highway.
Wow, I wish I were seeing those kinds of numbers. The car's computer reported 55mph average speeds on my 7 hour trip yesterday, but the speed limit in small towns is 30-35. Most of my trip was 75-77 and the best I got was 39. Sadly, we have a lot of hills in my area (hence the name Texas Hill Country). Mine too is a DSG.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Congrats on the Stage 3.5 set up. I was quite impressed with the difference between 3 and 3.5...and happy about it :D
Now I'm getting anxious to see the difference and join the club!
 

YukonLT

Veteran Member - TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Location
N/A
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 6MT
Now I'm getting anxious to see the difference and join the club!
Mine actually might be a little different because of my CP3 pump install. I remember them saying it was a 3.5++ or something like that. Can't be all that much different than 3.5 though I'm guessing though.
 

raider929

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Location
VA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
Mine actually might be a little different because of my CP3 pump install. I remember them saying it was a 3.5++ or something like that. Can't be all that much different than 3.5 though I'm guessing though.
Yeah, I have the HPFP out of a GTD so I think it's a little different than the normal 3.5 tune, not sure by how much though.
 

bobish

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Location
Lake Tahoe, NV
TDI
2009 JSW
Can't speak for the 3.5, but on my 3, it rolls coal over the 3600 range. Usually when it's over 4000 and I'm hauling a$$ with WOT...
Mine seems to put out a little haze at 3600+rpms at full throttle but i wouldn't call it rolling coal..and it only does it when I drive down to sea level anything above 5000ft there's no smoke at all....my car did roll coal a few times when the intercooler line popped off....that was rolling coal.
 
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