Stage 0 Tune Now Available (Natural Aspiration)

[kafer65]

My 73 bay window bus did ok with less than seventy hp. It weighed a smidge over 2 tons. I actually had to reign it in to help keep from overheating the aircooled heads.

 

[Mark@MaloneTuning]

Interesting discussion here

I just realized the cat and mufflers would need to be returned to any car without them. No turbo to muffle the sound with Stage 0.

There was a local ALH TDI that previously had its cat & muffler removed, and then a Stage 0 setup was installed. It was not long before the muffler was re-installed. I definitely recommend against running a straight pipe without a turbo

 

[Mark@MaloneTuning]

Mark, since you are proposing all sort of wacky ECU tune ideas lately, let me suggest another one:

Additional engine braking through turbo boost at zero throttle, for the people who frequently tow with their TDIs. I sort of accidentally have this mod right now (sticky VNT gets hung up on boost sometimes) and coasting distance is reduced noticeably with only 2-4 lbs of boost at zero throttle. I would imagine that 15 lbs of boost could help slow the car even more. Would have to be switch selectable somehow though.

A switchable-on-the-fly tune is in development and engine braking via VNT is definitely possible. Another possible solution is to use the exhaust flap from a 2009-2011 TDI (a number of owners are throwing them out in favour of a straight pipe) and wire it to the brake pedal. Someone here made an electronic VNT actuator work with EDC15 (ALH ecu etc.) so it's feasible. The exhaust flap may be more effective than a closed VNT.

 

[manual_tranny]

I think the ALH will make a fine NA motor. It's the only thing like it in the US... NA diesel motors typically had more primitive fuel injection... the "newer" fuel injection systems will be able to burn fuel more efficiently with it's programmable timing and quantity settings. It sounds like the first tune is running great, but i can't help wondering if we will see more tunes from Mark and others in the future that do take advantage of faster rpms. I know it sounds funny to put more money into a non-turbo diesel, but a new cam could potentially do so much for a NA engine.

VW must already make a NA diesel cam, my question is.. would it fit right in the ALH or is the European NA diesel a different size/shape?

Two more questions.. I've had diesels that had to be modified to work properly at altitude. Will the NA diesel sill function pretty well at altitude? (Assuming you turn the car off and on again, telling the ECU to read the altitude and compensate)

Finally, I believe I once read that there is no way to re-program the ECU to compensate for altitude as you are driving. Is this true? Thanks for your answers!

cheers

Mike

 

[Mark@MaloneTuning]

A lot of good points have been made here and I'd like to add that some people like the linear powerband of a NA engine. A Rabbit 1.6L NA with 400,000km was actually one of the most enjoyable diesels I owned. I've had a 192whp 1.6TD and I drove high power TDIs. The lightweight MK1 chassis may have been a factor in my enjoyment though.

The 1.6L NA engine does not have piston cooling oil jets like the 1.6TD does, among a few things. The TDI is overbuilt in SDI form and it may have great longevity, like bhtooefr indicated.

With permission from a local shop, I will take a picture of an MK4 TDI with 4-in-1 exhaust headers. Maybe a video if I run into the customer again.

BTW: No disrespect intended Mark. Just preemptively poking fun at anyone who might try and build an 'all-motor' TDI.

No offense taken I don't think anyone is trying to do an all-motor performance build here. I didn't post this in the Power Enhancements section for a reason. Cost and simplicity are the main goals of Stage 0. Besides, it can be fun tuning a SDI. Some 1.6 NA guys still mod their cars. By your logic we probably should be tuning 3.0L diesels or 200whp 2.0Ts instead of 90-140HP 1.9-2.0L TDIs to start with. We don't need a powerful base motor to enjoy modding them.

 

[manual_tranny]

We don't need a powerful base motor to enjoy modding them.

x2... I have fond memories of modifying my hopelessly under-powered Ninja 250. No matter what you did, that motor was never going to put out much more hp than a small riding mower. Sometimes, it's just fun to tinker!

 

[Mark@MaloneTuning]

VW must already make a NA diesel cam

It would be interesting to see the specs of a PD SDI cam. Colt Cams does regrinds for 1.6L NA engines. I don't remember what the general opinion on these cams were, or if there's even a dyno. bhtooefr might know as I haven't checked the popular IDI forum lately.

Two more questions.. I've had diesels that had to be modified to work properly at altitude. Will the NA diesel sill function pretty well at altitude?

In theory, yes. In practice we'll see. I'll need to take a 'SDI' from sea level up to one of our mountains (3000+ ft) quickly and do a smoke opacity test.

 

[nicklockard]

My 73 bay window bus did ok with less than seventy hp. It weighed a smidge over 2 tons. I actually had to reign it in to help keep from overheating the aircooled heads.

A quick google check shows weight of a 1969 bus at 2,723 lbs. I have a hard time believing the VW bus picked up 1,300 lbs of weight in four years.

On topic: I'm in total agreement with Farfromovin.

 

[Mark@MaloneTuning]

I don't understand the fixation on performance by a couple guys in this thread. I'll reiterate the first post of this thread, which lists the potential benefits of this tune:

• Industrial applications.
• Simpler engine swaps.
• A potentially lower cost alternative to replacing the turbo.

Not to mention potential engine longevity increase as well. This is simply an option for those who want it or need it And the tune is actually being used.

 

[bhtooefr]

The top end of the Mk4 VE-SDIs consists of the following different parts, from the Euro Mk4 VE-TDIs:

Camshaft: 038 109 101 E (TDI part is K suffix)
Intake valves: 028 109 601 J ("96,55" is the remarks, versus D suffix for TDI, and "96,85" for that part)
Exhaust valves: 028 109 611 K ("96,35", instead of G suffix and "96,85" for TDI)
Valve springs: 038 109 623 D (instead of B suffix for TDI)

For Mk5 2.0 PD-SDI versus Euro 1.9 PD-TDI:

Camshaft: 038 109 101 AE (TDI part is R suffix)

And, lastly, we'll go back to Mk3...

Camshaft: 028 109 101 E (TDI part is F suffix)
Valves: Same parts as Mk4 VE, so scroll up there
Valve springs: There's VIN splits out the wazoo, but 028 109 623 B for SDI, A suffix for TDIs from the same time period, and 038 109 623 D for later TDIs (such as AHUs - note that that's the same part as the Mk4 SDI)

As for another reason why a Mk1 with a 1.6NA could be fun... three words. "Slow car fast." My 99.5's ECU has RC2/3 switchable, and I don't plan on switching it to 3, because 2 is plenty of power for me, and 3 would ruin the car's fun on the street.

 

[kafer65]

My 73 was a Riviera style camper van. The type 4 motors added 100lbs and they held 5 more gallons of fuel. Adding crash protection, furniture, 110 electrical hookups, water and propane tanks, pop top adds a few. The point was that it was very heavy for power it had to use. The most enjoyable cars I've had were very slow: 1200cc 65 Beetle, 83 Benz 300td automatic, Opel Kaddett. I even used the Benz to tow the Beetle on the interstate.
We had a turbo deleted (only mod, no tuning) New Beetle TDI around here several years ago. It smoked real nice taking off in traffic, but it was keeping up.

 

[flatlanded]

I've been running without a turbo for a few weeks now (bad ecu, new one on the way). Gets around just fine and my MPG is on par (950kms and I've still got 1/4 tank to get to work tomorrow). Acceleration is dismal but I'm just hitting the highway and cruising at 100km/h. No smoke at all, sounds like a bloody tractor though. I'd love to see what the thing would feel like if it was actually tuned for that.

It's doable. It's just everyone in North America seems to think you need 300+hp to get around town with. The Europeans have been rocking the 50-60hp cars for years.

Not saying I'd ever consider getting rid of my turbo or anything crazy.

 

[Mark@MaloneTuning]

Finally got a few pictures of a MK4 Golf ALH with a fancy Stage 0 setup:

I'll try to grab pictures of the intake system next time.

Of course a stock 2.0L exhaust system or similar will be much cheaper and make more sense, but this particular car has interesting upgrades ahead.

 

[shizzler]

Whaaaaaa? !?

Not bashing the stage 0 idea at all.. but you could get a VNT15 in good condition for less than the cost of that header, haha. What upgrades are ahead? What is the motivation for this car's owner? very curious.

 

[b1gmoose]

Questions

For the budget Stage 0, other than the following, what is missing?

Block off plate for exhaust manifold turbo housing and EGR port
Rotate the intake manifold inlet 180 degrees (no need to buy a drivers side manifold and allows you to leave the EGR cooler in place and no new hoses)
Stealth race pipe mod OR DG racepipe. Would it be better to keep the ASV for shutdown? Runaway won't be a problem as far as I know on an SDI.
New exhaust and intake manifold gaskets and down pipe gasket

And for some unanswered questions
If you have a stainless steel braided turbo feed line, is it the same thread to connect it to the return port on the block? If not, what size cap is needed on the return port and what size bolt for the pressure port on the filter housing?

Is a map sensor still needed? What about setting the timing?

As part of a budget SDI, all other components can be sold to reduce the overall cost.
N75, EGR valve, ASV solenoid, Intercooler, charge piping, MAP sensor, etc.

What would the warmup time be in the winter at say -20 deg F? Longer? Shorter?

~ryan

 

[Mark@MaloneTuning]

Not bashing the stage 0 idea at all.. but you could get a VNT15 in good condition for less than the cost of that header, haha. What upgrades are ahead? What is the motivation for this car's owner? very curious.

Yes this particular car is not a low budget setup. I cannot reveal details yet, as per the client's wish. A low budget setup will involve stock VW NA components, which can be found easily & cheaply. For most people Stage 0 will be used for simple swaps, longevity, or with low cost parts.

b1gmoose: I answered most of your questions in e-mail. The MAP sensor can be deleted. If you want to rotate the intake manifold inlet 180 degrees, then yes you can chop & weld it. Or use a AHU TDI intake manifold, or PD130 intake manifold, or even a SDI intake setup.

 

[b1gmoose]

b1gmoose: I answered most of your questions in e-mail. The MAP sensor can be deleted. If you want to rotate the intake manifold inlet 180 degrees, then yes you can chop & weld it. Or use a AHU TDI intake manifold, or PD130 intake manifold, or even a SDI intake setup.

Hi Marc,

Thanks for the fast response.

Any ideas on what size cap for the oil return port and what size plug for the feed line port on the oil filter housing?

Thanks,

~ryan

 

[TDIMAXIMA]

I wish you guys could hear the big fat wet fart sound im making when I read this thread! Mark, I love yeah, but MALAKA! How does doing this make sense!

 

[rentstdi]

Do I see a Super charger in its near Future?

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

The 02M isn't really known for any big problems. (It's a 6-speed manual, as used in Mk4 cars, 02Q being the Mk5 version.)

Actually the shift forks on the 02M are problematic, they tend to break frequently.

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

'all-motor' TDI.

That is an oxymoron.. An all motor Turbo Direct Injected Diesel?

 

[manual_tranny]

I am interested in seeing what is possible. If it's not the way you would spend your money, don't do it.

 

[shizzler]

Me too. A supercharger would be interesting, but N/A I could see 70 HP and 55+ mpg.

 

[Whitbread]

Do I see a Super charger in its near Future?

I've always wanted to play around an hang an eaton m90 off of a tdi. I think it would be fun for an off road toy in a sami .

 

[jackbombay]

Cool stuff Mark!

Do I see a Super charger in its near Future?

That would be so much fun, BAM! power right now.

 

[LA@JSPerformance.ca]

Do I see a Super charger in its near Future?

You are correct, the pictures that Mark posted are from a project that we,JSP and Malone Tuning are involve with.JSP have been involve in several supercharged project that have produced some amazing results both on the track and on the road. So it was time to take these results and adopt them to what we know well, VW Diesels.

The vehicle is a 2001 Golf TDI that we are installing a Eaton supercharger on. During the build we required a tune to have the vehicle mobile this is where Mark was asked to join us and write the tunes for us. The vehicle required to run n/a for our research and development.The results where so good that we believed that there was a market for a n/a version of "TDI" without the "T".

Once we are happy with the final results of this project we will share some more info with the members of this club.

This stage "0" has many areas where one can use it with great results including ; boating, light industrial an even farm application.

Please don't stop debating these topics as we like to hear the views and opinion of others.This is what drives us at J.S.Performance to evolve and produce out of the box ideas.

 

[LA@JSPerformance.ca]

Here's a picture of the complete exhaust system.

 

[G60ING]

That looks like a techtonics header. Almost identical to my old Rabbit's techtonic Tuning header

very interesting project.


I look forward to hearing more about it and the switch on the fly tuning developments.

 

[jackbombay]

If you don't want to say till the project is done I understand, but I'd be interested to know which supercharger you plan on using.

 

[Mark@MaloneTuning]

If you don't want to say till the project is done I understand, but I'd be interested to know which supercharger you plan on using.

JSP mentioned the Eaton model number but I forgot. The main focus is low-RPM response/torque so it probably won't be an enormous supercharger.