bhef
Well-known member
Curious how this will affect our TDI engines. What does everyone think?
Speed of Air Pistons coming to 1.9T and 2.0T applications
- Thread starter bhef
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K5FAL
Well-known member
Technology like this and others, such as the Achates Diesel engine, sure offers a lot of hope.
But I fear as long as the political situation doesn’t change, it won’t matter.
But I fear as long as the political situation doesn’t change, it won’t matter.
Cool piston tech
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2023/02/speed-of-air-engine-technologies-breakthrough-piston-technology/
IanEricson
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- Indian Land, SC, USA
- TDI
- 2011 Sportwagen TDI DSG, 2013 Passat SEL TDI DSG
I have ordered a set for my 2013 Passat SEL TDI DSG. They should arrive any day now. It will probably take me a month to get the engine out, apart, resembled, and installed. I will post how the project turns out if I am successful in completing this task. I have already completed the DPF/Egr delete and Stage 1 tune plus DSG tune. That all turned out really well. Now the engine needs a refresh and it is a good excuse to try these Speed of Air pistons. If this turns out well, then will try to figure out why the 2015 DSG is rumored to be the more efficient transmission.
gear ratio's, that's it
IanEricson
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I have a set of Speed of Air pistons for my 2013 Passat 2.0 TDI with DSG. I have the engine completely disassembled in my garage. I am about to hone the cylinders and then install the Speed of Air pistons. Hopefully I will get this completed by the end of April.
Does anyone know where to find the actual DSG gear ratios or final drive numbers for the VW 2.0 TDI DSGs?
Since I have the engine and transmission out, would it make sense to get a 2015 Passat DSG transmission for my 2013 Passat? How much of a difference is there between the two, or are they the same? Does anyone know if it is a bolt in change, or will the electrical connections and computer things not match up or not work?
Does anyone know where to find the actual DSG gear ratios or final drive numbers for the VW 2.0 TDI DSGs?
Since I have the engine and transmission out, would it make sense to get a 2015 Passat DSG transmission for my 2013 Passat? How much of a difference is there between the two, or are they the same? Does anyone know if it is a bolt in change, or will the electrical connections and computer things not match up or not work?
x1800MODMY360x
Veteran Member
2013
2015
According to VW the gearbox is the same
But the 2015 don't need a "DSG tune" from most tuners, so I don't know.
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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- 2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700 1962 Quantum III
What is the surface air flow rate across the top surface of the piston anyway? Yeah, there's some 'swirl' effect during intake, but the air is moving down, pressing on (boost), or drafting behind (NA) the downward moving piston and not 'sweeping across' the piston top where the pimples would have any significant effect.
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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- 2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700 1962 Quantum III
Sometimes what I read, and what I picture in my mind, are rediculously divergent. I was picturing the 'dimpled' combustion chambers in some of the grenaded engines I've worked on.
TurboABA
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- RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline '14 A6 Technik S-line
Where did you get them? How much?
I just had a quick look at the SoA site and I can't find any VAG listing....
x1800MODMY360x
Veteran Member
VW TDi | Fisher Motor Works
TurboABA
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What's with the loss past 3.8k?
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dieseldonato
Veteran Member
The "gapless" ring package should make a more significant difference then the dimples. This is old tech, that's been tried a dozen times and never made it to mass production.
TurboABA
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From the little that I've read, gapless rings are good for making power, but not for reliability\longevity.
The OEMs use keystone rings to allow them to move around in the groove and thus clean\scrape away carbon buildup\deposits.
The OEMs use keystone rings to allow them to move around in the groove and thus clean\scrape away carbon buildup\deposits.
ZippyNH
Veteran Member
Matches the flatter tq curve of the 2015.....
Might not be a good combo on the earlier cars. It something they changed because they could make it work with the updated engine... believe that the dsg ratio difference was on the Jetta, but not the Passat
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ehhhh, yes and no. nothing a tune wouldnt fix either
it will boil down to difference in shift points for compensation of torque curve differences.
get a competent DSG/ECU tuner and you wont have a problem with putting that PGN gearbox into an even stock TDI (the manual 6 speeds with CJAA's have very very similar gear ratio's to this 2015 DSG from the jetta tdi)
dieseldonato
Veteran Member
I think it was another way to try and impress everyone and squeeze more power out of the test engines so the pistons would sell. Has nothing to do with longevity.
IanEricson
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I called Speed of Air and after being transferred found someone who said they made 7 sets of TDI pistons last year. They fit the CJAA and CKRA engines. He asked if I wanted a set if he could find them. I bought one set and they are EXPENSIVE. They fit in the category of If you have to ask... They are beautiful pistons. They come with rings, pins and clips. Today I have installed the pistons on the rods, and hope to file the rings today after honing the cylinders. I will report back after finishing this project which will likely take me a month because I only can spare about an hour every now and then to work on it.VW TDi | Fisher Motor Works
fishermotorworks.square.site
IanEricson
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I am going to find out. I have a set for my 2013 Passat TDI, DSG, SEL. A year or two ago I did the delete kit, Stage 1 ECU software and TCU software switch. I am afraid to post my current fuel mileage numbers because no one will believe it. If these pistons increase the efficiency and reduce emissions even a little bit, it is worth it to me. I have high hopes for these pistons. The political situation did change. I will report back with the outcome in about a month once I get this back together.
IanEricson
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What's with the loss past 3.8k?
IanEricson
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In my opinion, 3800 rpms is plenty of rpms for a diesel. Diesel fuel burns much slower than gasoline. The pistons, rods and pins are much heavier. I rarely run mine above 3000 rpms. There is plenty of power and torque under 3000 rpms. Especially after a DPF delete and Stage 1 tune. They pull pretty hard for a 2 liter diesel. If I could find a DSG with a better final drive ratio, I would prefer to stay below 2000 or 2300 rpms all the time.
x1800MODMY360x
Veteran Member
Speed of Air Pistons coming to 1.9T and 2.0T applications
Curious how this will affect our TDI engines. What does everyone think?
You probably won't unless you find an European DSG DQ500 7 speed if it would bolt up to.
TurboABA
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All of that is irrelevant to what I asked and the supreme piston tech that we are discussing.
Did the diesel fuel in the stock dyno pull burn faster than the diesel fuel in the SoA pull?
Were the dimples that improve power\efficiency\egt\fuel atomization\etc only doing all those things sub 3.8K rpm and I missed that in their claims?
I understand that you bought into all the hype, but there doesn't appear to be much supporting evidence around.
turbobrick240
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- 2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The components in a 2.0L TDI really aren't that much heavier than what's in my 2.5L 5 cylinder VW, and those will turn 6000 rpm in stock form. 5000 rpm redline in a 2L TDI sounds about right to me. Take some tuning to get there.
PGN 02E DSG out of a last year Jetta Sedan TDI has the highest 02E DSG gear ratio's ever produced.
theyre similar to that of the 6 speed manual. so think 2k RPM at 80MPH
IanEricson
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If I bought a used PGN 02E DSG what are the chances that it will bolt in and plug into a 2013 Passat Sedan TDI without any issues? 2000rpm at 80mph is exactly what I am hoping for. Has anyone swapped a 2015 Passat TDI DSG transmission into a 2013 Passat TDI DSG? My engine and transmission are out so now is the time to do it if I am going to.
IanEricson
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I do have a tune uploaded to my 2013 DSG. The shifts are super fast and the gears 1-6 display on the dashboard which is nice. The tune can be transfered to a different transmission if necessary. It would involve help from the service people at TuneZilla. I asked and they said they would help make it happen.2013
2015
According to VW the gearbox is the same
But the 2015 don't need a "DSG tune" from most tuners, so I don't know.
IanEricson
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The VW 2.0 TDI pistons are not listed on the site. If you call in, they may still have a few sets remaining. When I called there were 7 sets and now there is one less. They are all standard bore. You will need a block that has minimal or no measurable cylinder wear. It turns out that one cylinder in my block was worn to the point of being out of spec so the block just returned from a machine shop with a sleeve. The SOA pistons fit the CJAA and CKRA engines but not the EA288. I do not know what the difference is.
IanEricson
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I think they will work great! I bought one of the first sets and have the engine out and apart and am hoping to get it all reassembled and reinstalled within the next few weeks. I had a problem with the old head and had to buy another head. Now it has all new valves and looks great. Now I have a delima. The pistons have a thermal barrier coating and it might be worth getting the combustion chamber plasma coated with a thermal barrier coating. From what I have read online it will increase efficiency, power and reduce emissions significantly. So, I will see if I can find anyone locally that applies plasma coating to aluminum heads.
2015 JETTA sedan, not Passat, transmission
and yes, it should just swap in. you cannot use the existing DSG tune you have on the new one, you will need a new tune