Southbend Clutch Kit Issues - Another set of 3rd gear synchros

UberVW_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
2010 Golf Variant TDI
I don't know how many time I have to repeat myself to say it really works with a solid flywheel.

...and by works, you stated earlier that it's ~80% reduction...and you say to minimize idling as well.

So, there is some clatter still occuring? Buy minimize idling you mean don't stop at traffic lights, let your turbo cool down for longer then ? seconds, or get stuck in heavy traffic?

...just sounds like it's not a total solution to the SMF clatter/gear lash/synchro issue.
 
Last edited:

1963gp

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
TDI
2012 golf TDI tech edition modified and converted to GTD, 2003TDI Jetta Smith p/u conversion, 1987 Syncro Westy TDI conversion, 1967 Westy TDI AHU. 1995 EuroCamper TDI Syncro, 2014 Cayanne Diesel TDI, 2004 V10 TDI Touareg.
My suggestion to you is to go back to stock and you will much happier. I am happy with an 80 percent improvement. I live in the Washington DC area commute in heavy traffic road race the car tow with a tow dolly and am racking up many miles plus track time since I did the fluid dampener with no syncro failures. I always let my turbo cool down till egts get in the 300's with my foot in on the clutch btw. very minor clattering does not have the same effect as the thrashing it took before. so if I get 100k out of this set of syncros I will be damn happy. but I bet I will go further. it appears people here are suffering from a case of paralysis by analysis. it works for me. so I don't know what to tell you I am happy.

...and by works, you stated earlier that it's ~80% reduction...and you say to minimize idling as well.

So, there is some clatter still occuring? Buy minimize idling you mean don't stop at traffic lights, let your turbo cool down for longer then ? seconds, or get stuck in heavy traffic?

...just sounds like it's not a total solution to the SMF clatter/gear lash/synchro issue.
 

amstel78

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Location
Shohola, PA
TDI
2012 Golf TDI [buyback completed 14/1/2017] 2006 S65 AMG
I live in the Washington DC area commute in heavy traffic road race the car tow with a tow dolly and am racking up many miles plus track time...
OT, but is your name Lorenzo and do you work at the Italian consulate? If not, never mind.
 

2011tdiproject

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
south dakota
TDI
2011 Golf
There was another thread where I posted up that if south bend made the flywheel the correct weight, I'm guessing something like 27 lbs, or more, this wouldn't be a problem. But there may be some reason why they don't do this, like not enough room, I don't know. But a smf has to be heavier than a dual mass to impart the same amount of torsional vibration, since it has no give. Making a smf the same weight as a dmf is stupidity, if it can be avoided.
 

1963gp

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
TDI
2012 golf TDI tech edition modified and converted to GTD, 2003TDI Jetta Smith p/u conversion, 1987 Syncro Westy TDI conversion, 1967 Westy TDI AHU. 1995 EuroCamper TDI Syncro, 2014 Cayanne Diesel TDI, 2004 V10 TDI Touareg.

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
FWIW,

Just had my fluidampr installed. Here's my review.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=404646&page=40

I'm with 1963gp, well worth the expense when coupled with the CR170
turbo and the SBC clutch with SMF, I went with the Stage II Endurance.
Time will tell if it saves my synchros from premature failure, but my sense was without the fluidampr they were being severely stressed.

Many thanks to all on these forums for the wealth of knowledge and experience about the TDI's. A valuable resource for this owner/driver.


Cheers,
R*2
 

uninc

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Location
Kenosha WI
TDI
2012 GOLF TDI MKVI
02Qs have different syncros than 02J or 02M transmissions. They're proving to be more fragile, especially when used with an SMF. Big power and track days don't help. I know one customer who retrofitted an 02M in his MKVI so he'd have the stronger syncros.
IBW,
Do you have any info on what this all entails?
Looking for a backup plan if the Fluidampr doesnt work out.
 

2011tdiproject

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
south dakota
TDI
2011 Golf
Any of you guys experiencing this problem ever tell South Bend Clutch about it? If they're selling the same flywheel for the gas and diesel motors, they need to not do that. I remember reading on here somewhere that their tdi flywheel was only 22 lbs or so, that is way too light. That's about the weight of an integra gsr flywheel. Way to light for a 4 cyl diesel. Someone needs to let them fix this problem. They are very well known in the diesel pickup world for their multiple disk clutches, I'm surprised they put out tdi parts that don't work like this.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
2011,

TDI owner/buyers are mostly going for economy, not performance.
I suspect there just ain't the market for Southbend to worry about it. Certainly not like the good old farm boys playing with their pickup trucks.

I like the lighter flywheel, response is much improved, the addition of the fluidampr has reduced the vibrations to the gearbox, and noticeably smoothed out the engine.

By all means complain to Southbend about it, and then get a hold of VW and give them an earfull on cheapening the synchros.

Meanwhile, as my mechanic points out, "you gotta' pay to play".
Upgrading performance is a bottomless rabbit hole; once in, it just keeps on getting deeper. {:eek:)

Cheers,
R*2
 

elitegunslinger

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Location
Barnegat NJ
TDI
2010 Golf TDI :D
Agreed, want that bigger turbo? Gotta do the clutch, fluidampr, S3 intercooler, tune, watermeth kit and exhaust. But wait you're going faster but you aren't stopping quicker! Calipers, rotors, and pads. But now your handling sucks! Sway bars, bushings, struts/coils, tires/rims and subframe deadset kit. (not a comprehensive list, I'm sure there are things I'm missing)

Quicker than you even saw it coming you've taken your economy vehicle and beefed up the cost to own with 10k in upgrades lol.
 

elitegunslinger

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Location
Barnegat NJ
TDI
2010 Golf TDI :D
Got confirmation today, I need to upgrade my clutch 112k slipped drag racing 2nd through 3rd and grabbed 4th :(

Anyone have a helical LSD suggestion?
 
Last edited:

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
To wavetrac or not to wavetrac, that is the question.
Thanks for the link, my wallet is going to get pounded between my 120k service and the clutch/LSD lol.
I know the feeling... I'm holding out as long as I can to do any power upgrades because I know that the funds for supporting mods can really go crazy with something like a stage 3 or something nuts like a GTB2260VK or GTB2566VK :eek:

Now with nhtsa closing the investigation into the fuel pump failures I'm thinking of upgrading to a mini cp3 since it's much more of a bullet proof pump compared to our stock hpfp. Waiting to see how vw deals with the pump replacements over the next few months to know which way I'll go...
 
Last edited:

Colindunn

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Location
Naperville, IL
TDI
2010 Sportwagen 6MT
I do have to say, When the southbend clutch disk failed on my vehicle, it was replaced with an "upgraded unit" according to southbend. (They sent me a new clutch disc at no charge) I was told the new disc would help with the chatter and was stronger. Now, this upgraded clutch that they sent to me really made it so much quieter that I thought something was wrong.

Put a couple thousand miles on it like that and finally installed the Fluidampr. After installing the fluidampr I did notice an improvement, but it was very minor compared to where it already was with this newer clutch disc.

I still have clutch chatter, but is definitely 80% quieter than it was originally. Though most of this seems to be due to the clutch disc and not the fluidampr in my case. Thought I would share my thoughts on this I found it interesting.

I recommend the fluidampr because it DOES help. I'm just at a loss at how a clutch disc can make this much of a difference. I have about 5k miles on the new clutch and around 1,500 of that with the fluidampr.
 

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
Most clutch discs have springs to do much the same thing as the DMF.

These dampen the crank/ flywheel to input shaft of the transmission impulses like the springs in the DMF.
There is a picture of the clearance in the spring / disc movement:

With a multi disk clutch pack there is no room for the hub springs and this is one of the reasons for the DMF. The other is to lessen the vibration at idle where the clutch springs are not in action.
The dual mass also helps dampen the inherent vibration of a 4 cylinder engine since there are two different frequencies resonant with a spring coupled dual mass system.
If the SMF does not have hub springs then I would consider this to be a racing setup where the additional power (if any) would not be absorbed by the springs, but rather focused in basically adding major power pulsed to the drivetrain and gears etc causing premature failure.
 

Mrrogers1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Location
Omaha NEEEBRASKA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT, 2011 Jetta TDI DSG, 2015 Golf Sportwagen S TDI DSG
I do have to say, When the southbend clutch disk failed on my vehicle, it was replaced with an "upgraded unit" according to southbend. (They sent me a new clutch disc at no charge) I was told the new disc would help with the chatter and was stronger. Now, this upgraded clutch that they sent to me really made it so much quieter that I thought something was wrong.
Put a couple thousand miles on it like that and finally installed the Fluidampr. After installing the fluidampr I did notice an improvement, but it was very minor compared to where it already was with this newer clutch disc.
I still have clutch chatter, but is definitely 80% quieter than it was originally. Though most of this seems to be due to the clutch disc and not the fluidampr in my case. Thought I would share my thoughts on this I found it interesting.
I recommend the fluidampr because it DOES help. I'm just at a loss at how a clutch disc can make this much of a difference. I have about 5k miles on the new clutch and around 1,500 of that with the fluidampr.
Thanks for that update! Keeping an eye on this stuff in preparation of clutch upgrade on a car we just did a CR170 on. Sticking with stage 2 tune for now but will go to stage 3 when it is finally time to upgrade from stock clutch.
 

bawward

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Location
Steamboat Springs, CO
TDI
02 Silve Jetta Wagon - 5spd. w/ SB St.2, PP520's | 02 Green Jetta Wagon - 5spd. OEM | RIP 2003 Black Jetta Wagon - 5spd.
Hey, did you end up putting in the sb clutch and fluidampnr?

I'm very interested. Not running crazy mods, just 520's and Malone stage 2. The clutch is next, would love to hear your impressions!
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
I'd like to bring this thread back to see how many miles the folks that upgraded to the SMF with Fluidampr and shockproof cocktail have on their vehicles. Did anyone upgrade shift forks from the brass to steel either?
 
Last edited:

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
I'd like to bring this thread back to see how many miles the folks that upgraded to the SMF with Fluidampr and shockproof cocktail have on their vehicles. Did anyone upgrade shift forks from the brass to steel either?
Did everybody turn their cars in??
 

Slurry Pumper

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Location
Allentown PA
TDI
2010 Jetta Sedan
Nope, I still have my car, and the synchros are chewed up. I just bought a fluid dampener, and in about 2 weeks, I will buy the synchros, then in about a month or so, I will get a throw out bearing, then make the big install to see if the parts help with my chewing up the synchros and clutch clatter issues.

When I do change out all of the items listed, and maybe some that are not listed, I will make a scan file of the geometry for both the new and used parts to compare.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Nope, I still have my car, and the synchros are chewed up. I just bought a fluid dampener, and in about 2 weeks, I will buy the synchros, then in about a month or so, I will get a throw out bearing, then make the big install to see if the parts help with my chewing up the synchros and clutch clatter issues.

When I do change out all of the items listed, and maybe some that are not listed, I will make a scan file of the geometry for both the new and used parts to compare.
I've just installed my Fluidampr while I had the timing belt loose for a CP3 upgrade, and though I still have the stock clutch/DMF in place, I've had not one ounce of flywheel shudder at this stage 2 power level since throwing it on. It clearly does what it is intended to do, and I had a hunch that the flywheel shudder would change.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

Braindrill

New member
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
Location
Canada
TDI
Jetta TDI 2011 CR140
Is anyone driving the DMF stage 3 clutch kit from southbend you have the choice between 470 ft/lb daily, 485 lb/ft endurance, 550 lb/ft drag and 575+lb/ft also drag, all about the same price, I don't know the difference between all of them but I was thinking of using the Daily model but dang they aren't cheap at all. I have a stage 2 Jetta Tdi 2011, 185 WHP/360lb/ft(Aggressive tune) on stock turbo (24 psi, peak between 27 and 30 sometimes), and 2.5'' stainless exhaust to the rear axle, the DMF is starting to be fatigued after 60000 km of abuse.



Here is the link to the clutch kits with Sasch High torque DMF
https://www.southbendclutch.com/clutches/10504/


What do you guys think about it ?
 

cscmc1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Location
Charleston, IL
TDI
n/a
I'd like to bring this thread back to see how many miles the folks that upgraded to the SMF with Fluidampr and shockproof cocktail have on their vehicles. Did anyone upgrade shift forks from the brass to steel either?
^^ditto this. Has ANYONE successfully run a SMF setup on their 02Q for an extended period, or are they virtually guaranteed to fail? I'm genuinely curious; thanks!
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
^^ditto this. Has ANYONE successfully run a SMF setup on their 02Q for an extended period, or are they virtually guaranteed to fail? I'm genuinely curious; thanks!
Does 10k miles count for an "extended period"?
That was my end result...

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Top