Southbend Clutch Kit Issues - Another set of 3rd gear synchros

[quicksilver98]

I just became victim to my second set of 3rd gear synchros in my MK6 Golf. I installed a Southbend clutch Stage 2 Endurance clutch about 40K miles ago and I fear the chattering has caused another transmission failure.. I've been looking into the Fluidampr and some other fixes, but this car is becoming a total money pit..

Can anyone else chime in here that has a SBC SMF kit on their car that's had failed synchros or know someone who has after installing this clutch?

 

[amstel78]

Do a search on the forum; the issue SMF eating synchros has been discussed by others (elitegunslinger off the top of my head) who've gone down your road before. That's one of the reasons I've held off on replacing my DMF despite the chattering I get from time to time after my tune.

 

[elitegunslinger]

I still haven't swapped to an SMF after hearing these reports; there is a performance DMF out... let me see if I can find the link. It's what I've been considering doing to avoid replacing the synchros.

edit:

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/sachs-2-0-tdi-6-speed-02q-dual-mass-flywheel-with-sachs-sre-performance-clutch-kit.html

The sintered paddle disc is rated to 390 ft/lbs, I'm sure this is conservative and could probably go within range of a GTB2260...

I'm hoping this may be a good alternative to avoid replacing synchros, yes it doesn't alleviate the DMF headache but at least it should be able to take the beating.

 

[Georgia_Boy]

I've been dealing with chattering because I've also been apprehensive of the SB stage 2 Endurance eating Synchros. I looked at the link elite gunslinger posted but I didn't see where any of those kits claimed to work with the CJAA motors. I don't mind a DMF. I just want this chatter gone. Bugs the hell out of me.

 

[elitegunslinger]

I've been dealing with chattering because I've also been apprehensive of the SB stage 2 Endurance eating Synchros. I looked at the link elite gunslinger posted but I didn't see where any of those kits claimed to work with the CJAA motors. I don't mind a DMF. I just want this chatter gone. Bugs the hell out of me.

I believe it will work with the CJAA; it specifies:

VW Golf Mk6 - CFFA / CBAA (CR136), CBAB / CFFB (CR140)

there's another that specifices:

VW Golf Mk6 - CFGB / CBBB (CR170)

I believe the last time I spoke with Les from GDM he mentioned this clutch kit would work with our cars.

 

[amstel78]

I've been dealing with chattering because I've also been apprehensive of the SB stage 2 Endurance eating Synchros. I looked at the link elite gunslinger posted but I didn't see where any of those kits claimed to work with the CJAA motors. I don't mind a DMF. I just want this chatter gone. Bugs the hell out of me.

The chatter used to bug me too but now I know exactly when it happens and how to minimize it. The other option is to have Malone slightly detune your ecu but of course you know what's involved with that process.

The problem now is the stock DMF is certainly a weak point if you wanted to upgrade to a cr170 and stage 3.

Sent from my SM-P607T using Tapatalk

 

[Georgia_Boy]

It doesn't bother me enough to have my Tune cut back. Lol. I'm liking the sound of this Upgraded DMF option. I'd like to get some input from someone running that setup. I'm sure someone has to have gone this route already.

 

[uninc]

I am running the SRE DMF for the CR170 and a stage 3 tune.
I still get some shudder under peak torque, but it is significantly less than what I had on stage 2 and stock clutch. Very easy to drive around, just don't punch the accelerator at low RPM in 6th.

I am getting some odd resonance at full throttle low RPMs in gears 4-6. Need to do some more investigating to make sure this is not a clutch/transmission issue. Hoping it is just a really odd exhaust noise.

 

[ATR]

You can get the FLUIDAMPR for the 1.8t. There was a member here that road races his car on race tracks. He too was having issues with the transmission eating synchros for breakfast, lunch and dinner. He installed the FLUIDAMPR and hasn't had any more problems so far. He's also running a cr170 turbo.

 

[redbarron55]

While the fluid damper may help damp out the vibrations sensible to the driver it can't do much for the torsional vibrations from the 4 cylinder diesel engine.
This is the whole reason for the spring damped DMF clutch. The difference in the movement from the crank and the suspended second mass absorb the torsional vibrations to a great extent. The wear on the springs from the working in angular position fatigues the spring and eventually causes them to fail. The fluid damper will aid in the torsional vibrations within the crankshaft, but can do little good in the impulse loading in the transmission and drive train.
If you want to eliminate or reduce the torsional vibration then add one or more cylinders so that there is some overlap of the power impulses from the crank.
If you are very lucky the Fluid damper mar reduce the impulses just enough to be below the damage level of the drivetrain and I guess that is the point. Perhaps it will serve for a period of time.

 

[Colindunn]

Yeah I've been starting to get annoyed with the issues I've had that seem to be caused by the SMF.. My southbend stage 2 clutch disk just took a crap on me, the center of the disk seperated from the rest of it. Transmission is currently out now (3rd time in 15k miles), and I'm debating on going back to a DMF... any options other than stock for a DMF? Or any DMF that will work with a southbend clutch kit? Probably should've left this thing stock but thats difficult for me to do. Driving 35k miles a year though and I haven't been able to drive my car about 4 weeks of the total year because of related issues. I love stage 2 and really hate to go back to stock. Honestly though it seems like I would have less issues with an OEM clutch and flywheel WITH stage 2.

I also have a fluidampr I was going to install before my clutch disk decided to kill itself.

Don't know if I should replace the disk, leave the SMF, throw on the fluidampr and drive it, or go back to a DMF at this point...

 

[Colindunn]

When I was at 185K miles, on my original flywheel (which was bad and rattled and needed replacement) and (possibly) original clutch, held stage 2 just fine with no slippage. My flywheel was shot and still handled stage 2 fine untill I decided to go with a Southbend clucth and flywheel around 195K.

 

[Colindunn]

If I could get 50K miles out of a new OEM DMF with stage 2 I would be happy if it meant no issues with the tranmission.

 

[1963gp]

I have had similar issues with destroying my syncros. I can tear down an 02Q blind folded. I am running the south bend stage 2 clutch a Malone stage 3 tune. Not until I put a fluid dampener on it did the problem go away. Chatter was reduced 80 percent and is much smoother. The key is the fluid damper and no unnecessary idling. My car is tracked and tows a tow dolly. Bottom line your sycros will live with a fluid dampener. I also run one qt of light weight shock proof gear oil with the with redline gear oil. The other option is a common rail 170 DMF from Europe. that still would not hold a stage 3 tune.

 

[Colindunn]

I believe the fluidampr does help a lot, my only concern is I do a lot of driving and don't want it to become a yearly issue, though that would be better than every few months right now.

 

[uninc]

I am running the SRE DMF for the CR170 and a stage 3 tune.
I still get some shudder under peak torque, but it is significantly less than what I had on stage 2 and stock clutch. Very easy to drive around, just don't punch the accelerator at low RPM in 6th.
I am getting some odd resonance at full throttle low RPMs in gears 4-6. Need to do some more investigating to make sure this is not a clutch/transmission issue. Hoping it is just a really odd exhaust noise.

Video of the noise. Doesn't sound too promising.

http://youtu.be/-P1e2sYeRQs

 

[ihatespeed]

Glad I got my tune dialed back, it shook like crazy right at 1900 rpm 5th and 6th when I first got it.. So far I'm 70,000 miles into my tune with a stock dmf, no issues.

 

[1963gp]

well I put a boat load of miles on mine I beat the crap out of it actually right now getting the egt error corrected so that egts are not 200 deg off. hence correcting egt limiter issue when I am on the straights on the track. so far 10,000 miles since I put the fluid dampener on no problems that included daily driving track time and towing other VWs with tow dolly. bottom line you can dial back the tune. but if you want max performance and want to run a solid flywheel you must run a fluid dampener. and run the gear oil cocktail I recommended.

 

[EvilEvo]

well I put a boat load of miles on mine I beat the crap out of it actually right now getting the egt error corrected so that egts are not 200 deg off. hence correcting egt limiter issue when I am on the straights on the track. so far 10,000 miles since I put the fluid dampener on no problems that included daily driving track time and towing other VWs with tow dolly. bottom line you can dial back the tune. but if you want max performance and want to run a solid flywheel you must run a fluid dampener. and run the gear oil cocktail I recommended.

What EGT error?

 

[elitegunslinger]

well I put a boat load of miles on mine I beat the crap out of it actually right now getting the egt error corrected so that egts are not 200 deg off. hence correcting egt limiter issue when I am on the straights on the track. so far 10,000 miles since I put the fluid dampener on no problems that included daily driving track time and towing other VWs with tow dolly. bottom line you can dial back the tune. but if you want max performance and want to run a solid flywheel you must run a fluid dampener. and run the gear oil cocktail I recommended.

Your suggestions sound like they may be working; I'll hold back a little longer but if the Fluidampr is truly the silver bullet for the SMF I'll be going that route. How many miles do you do a year?

 

[1963gp]

I run 15k miles a year. the temp sensor pre-turbo was reading 200 deg higher causing the egt limiter to dial back to early. relocated and getting correct temp readings.

 

[EvilEvo]

I run 15k miles a year. the temp sensor pre-turbo was reading 200 deg higher causing the egt limiter to dial back to early. relocated and getting correct temp readings.

How do you know it was reading higher? Install another EGT sensor?

 

[elitegunslinger]

How do you know it was reading higher? Install another EGT sensor?

The CR170 turbo produces more heat than the CR140; it needs to be relocated further down stream to produce accurate readings as the sensor can only detect 1000 degrees (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[EvilEvo]

The CR170 turbo produces more heat than the CR140; it needs to be relocated further down stream to produce accurate readings as the sensor can only detect 1000 degrees (correct me if I'm wrong).

Putting it further downstream would lower the readings, giving you wrong readings. The CR170 should produce less heat at the same power level because it is larger and more efficient.

 

[Georgia_Boy]

I run 15k miles a year. the temp sensor pre-turbo was reading 200 deg higher causing the egt limiter to dial back to early. relocated and getting correct temp readings.

I run about 60k per year so if you could keep us updated on how the clutch is working out for you it would be greatly appreciated. I have time as long as I keep my foot out of it. When I do drop the $ I want to make sure I drop it on the correct setup. Thanks for all the info so far it is very helpful.

 

[jason_]

I have the cbea, and my fingers are nearly all collapsed, getting to the point I can't release the disc, and this thread scares me of going to a smf. But I don't want to install a dmf headache.

 

[UberVW_TDI]

Has anyone heard of the 02Q 6 speed manual DMF failing like the 02M?
Seems like they are holding up better? Maybe not enough average miles on them

 

[UberVW_TDI]

I'm worried installing a SMF would create more issues then solve.
There is a reason they are installed in the first place.
The chatter and gear lash caused by a SMF would really be a down grade in my opinion.
I'm interested in the Sach SRE performance clutch with DMF.
http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en...id=3&et_lid=4&et_sub=SACHS+dual-mass+flywheel


http://www.sachsperformance.com/Choose clutch category:_:11.html?t=_2

 

[amstel78]

I'm worried installing a SMF would create more issues then solve.
There is a reason they are installed in the first place.
The chatter and gear lash caused by a SMF would really be a down grade in my opinion.
I'm interested in the Sach SRE performance clutch with DMF.
http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en...id=3&et_lid=4&et_sub=SACHS+dual-mass+flywheel


http://www.sachsperformance.com/Choose clutch category:_:11.html?t=_2

Thanks for the links. I didn't realize Sachs made a performance clutch with DMF. Might be a viable option for tuned owners if this is something we can get stateside.

Is this the one you were looking at? I only see the clutch and cover, no flywheel:
http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...-04/2009/SRE-Performance-Clutch-Kit::118.html

 

[jason_]

I'm in search of a solution for cbea.