Sounds like we need a kit for measuring EMP!

[LurkerMike]

Whaaat? You really can't be serious now, come
on...I've been looking at that dash and NOWHERE can I find the windshield
washer fluid temp guage!

Sorry, it goes in the empty space...

It is out being re-calibrated for when I get the aluminum IC pipes to
market. With the 5.5L washer bottle and the amount of charge air
cooling these new pipes will do by dissipating the heat, the washer
bottle will be heated significantly. That will be an awesome added
benefit in the winter for melting snow, especially for those who add
the headlight squirter's!

But a wider temperature range gauge will be needed to monitor the
heated washer fluid.

(PS, I pray that I don't melt empty washer bottles as this has not
been tested as of yet. A heat shield may have to be added if this
turns out to be the case. This part is seriously no joke!)

 

[jackbombay]

Sorry, it goes in the empty space...

It is out being re-calibrated...

You did get the Westach one that has 2 gauges in the one housing? Washer fluid temp and fluid pressure measured just before the nozzle?

 

[LurkerMike]

No, I got the Bassackwards brand one that monitors the headlight bezel
fluid and the Knudsen valve relief pressure setting.

It also has an added feature that tells you when the battery goes
completely dead by not illuminating the back light.

It makes me wonder why more gauges don't come with this feature?

 

[jackbombay]

Of all the pics I have ever seen on the internet there is one I really wish I would have saved but didn't. It was of a red fairly lame nissan sentra, nothing special, but it had at least 40 gauges littered about the driver, so rad, it'd be like having Va-com running at all times.

 

[mickyTDI]

Surely if the car is running right without flat spots and surging wouldn't the EMP be ok? If that's not the case would high EMP cause damage somewhere?

 

[LurkerMike]

Surely if the car is running right without flat spots and
surging wouldn't the EMP be ok? If that's not the case would high EMP
cause damage somewhere?

At a minimum higher than normal EMP will lose some efficiency. It may
also cause the turbo to run hotter and shorten its life.

I don't troll the MPG club area because I am not able to drive like they
have to drive to get the mileage that they get. But I am working on the
kind of mods that will also help the mpg's in addition to making power
gains. Keeping the EMP is part of the equation.

 

[nug18]

where is the best place to tab the emp? how long can the guage last with all the hot gas and heat travelling to the guage

 

[Rub87]

There won't be hot gas travelling to the gauge as long that there is nor leak in the line.. I used the same type of tube as thats used for the return tubes for the njectors 10 cm away from the exhaust manifold.. the tube doesn't even get warm at the gauge..

I tapped mine at the EGT bung just before the turbo..

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I really have been working on this - everything takes longer than you think it will.

I've got two 0-50 psi pressure sensors and need to make a little wiring harness to go between the data acquisition and the sensors. Then I can calibrate the sensors on the below manometer (up to 72" Hg)

Once the sensors are calibrated so I can get accurate measurements, I'll put it all in the car and take some data of both IMP and EMP and calculate the difference and then plot all 3 vs time (hopefully synchronized with vag log data as well).

The manometer is really key so I can accurately calibrate the sensors and check my gauges as well. If I can get the wiring harness made this week, hopefully I can calibrate the sensors and get some data taken over the holiday break.

I can measure up to 4 pressures at one time so if there's someting other than EMP (measured at the EGR port) and IMP (measured at the intake manifold) - let me know. I'd like to get cylinder pressure, but this particular data acquisition system is only 100Hz sample rate - fine for IMP/EMP but not sufficient for cylinder pressures.

Previously discussed here as well.

 

[jackbombay]

Do you have plans to log pressures on VNT15s and stock 17s as well?

 

[LurkerMike]

I really have been working on this - everything takes longer than you think it will.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Do you have plans to log pressures on VNT15s and stock 17s as well?

There's a guy with a VNT-15, boost gauge, EGR delete and stock exhaust near me that offered to help out. I don't have any VNT-17's or 20's or 18/52's etc lined up yet.

 

[hgeittmann]

you might also log compressor inlet and outlet pressures. Then you get info on pressure drop due to intake/filter system, pressure ratio across compressor, and pressure drop due to IC and its plumbing.

 

[Rub87]

and when you do that you also get compressor effeiciency..

 

[Rub87]

you need temperatures for that, no? But add 2 thermocouples and you've got it. Then add a tach on the shaft and you can produce your own compressor maps.

You'd need the flow too..

But for com efficiency you're good with the before and after pressure and before and after temp.. , if you measure flow you indeed could plot parts of the compressor map.. when doing this you could mark the points on tha compressor map you've got and see where you need to adjust boost to stay as much as possible in the highest efficiency zone..

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I plan on taking a VagLog of channels 1, 3 & ?? (whichI think has MAF on it) and overlaying this with the IMP and EMP measurements. If there's a particular group of Vag channels you'd like to see, let me know.

 

[Street Toys]

I plan on taking a VagLog of channels 1, 3 & ?? (whichI think has MAF on it) and overlaying this with the IMP and EMP measurements. If there's a particular group of Vag channels you'd like to see, let me know.

I thank you Fix_until_Broke, for the time you are taking to log this information and most important, sharing it with us. I believe that what you are doing for us here is the reason this forum was designed. I will see if I can get you more information as to perhaps people in your area that might like to participate in your quest for information and if you are up to it you can compare data in vehicles that are operating in various stages of both hardware and software! If I can assist you in information that I have gathered let me know I would be more than happy to share data that I have to help the cause! Thank you again .
Street Toys

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Well - Let me get it working on my car as a guinnie pig first before we go too far here. This logging and overlaying data thing is still just an idea at this point.

If I actually get this working, I'd be willing to try it out on a few other setups (as soon at it warms up here )

 

[hgeittmann]

With the logging and overlaying... not sure what software you're using to collect data, but I can supply some example code that will "press" the marker and start/stop buttons in VagCom. My thought was to mark both data sets simultaneously (1-2 second intervals?) and line up the markers in excel manually. You could always get fancy and have your software read the .csv file and merge the data automatically after the logging is done.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I'm using a Labview tool to acquire and analyze the data.

The tool will read in the .csv file that my data acquisition system outputs. I can put the Vag data in the same file and it will read the same (I've done this before) I can have a "trigger" in the data acquisition (basically short the signals to ground or +5vdc) at the same time I hit the marker button in the VagLog to synchronize the data (just one syncronization point). I need to figure out a way to merge the two files without a ton of manual labor since the VagLogs are inconsistent at best as far as sample rate. I think I can do this in Excel with some logic statements and sorting but have not really thought much about it yet.

 

[nicklockard]

(snipped) I think I can do this in Excel with some logic statements and sorting but have not really thought much about it yet.

Should be no problem with the 'if' command

=if(logical_statement, do_action or "say this", false or "say that")


also use the conditional formatting for a column: it makes certain data points stand out in red or bold or whatever and makes a nice visual marker.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I just typed out a big long thing about what I did the last day on this and the $#&%*@ Netscape browser just logged me out giving some message about not being able to access the page

Anyway to sum it up

The system works, the sensors calibrated well with my manometer (y=~1.013x+0.05 with an R^2=0.9999...), I have the data merged together but it's a lot of manual work that needs some automation.

Will work on it more this week as weather permits

 

[nicklockard]

I just typed out a big long thing about what I did the last day on this and the $#&%*@ Netscape browser just logged me out giving some message about not being able to access the page

Anyway to sum it up

The system works, the sensors calibrated well with my manometer (y=~1.013x+0.05 with an R^2=0.9999...), I have the data merged together but it's a lot of manual work that needs some automation.

Will work on it more this week as weather permits

That's extremely good calibration with small offset and error

If you want to send raw data files I can try to clean it up for you using the logic commands and conditional formatting tricks. Email in profile. Tell me what exactly it is we are looking for so I know how to whip it into shape though.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Made up some of these for measuring EMP's on car's with functional EGR systems next weekend at the garagemahal...

[/IMG]

 

[LurkerMike]

Made up some of these for measuring EMP's on car's with functional EGR systems next weekend at the garagemahal...

Nice!!!

 

[jackbombay]

FUB, have you taken anymore logs since the initial set?

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Jack - you have good timing, I just took ~5 of them today - on 5 different cars at the Janesville GTG.

I'll try to compile some of the data tomorrow

 

[Hades]

FUB--What are the sensors you're using to take the pressure measurements? Where'd you get them/how much were they?

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=223-1045-ND

 

[KERMA]

I wonder if you could measure IAT with these different turbos? That's the best way to measure efficiency, at least on the compressor end.