Sometimes you win one.

ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
I've always wanted a white, 5 speed, 4 door, non-sunroof golf. One popped up on craigslist a month or so back "needing a motor" for less than I've sold a manual trans swap for, so I scooped it up.

The PO said he hit a rock while turning around in his yard, put a hole in the pan, and ran it till it shut off. Then he replaced the pan, filled it with oil, and it wouldn't start. I just assumed that he didn't know the difference between normal diesel sounds and rod knock...

When I picked it up, we threw jumper cables on it, and just got a click. No movement at all. So I towed it home and let it sit for a month or so while I finished other projects.

Last night I towed it to my house, and while coasting downhill towards my shop, I popped the clutch just for kicks... and the motor turned over, just like it should. I put a battery in it, and went out for a 40 mile test ride. :)

It's a sign. This one is a keeper. It's refreshing to be pleasantly surprised for once.

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Powder Hound

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 25, 1999
Location
Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
TDI
'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
Since you know it was run until it seized, you should drop the oil pan and check the main and rod bearings. You could fix it now rather than be stranded when the engine grenades and sends a rod through the side of the block.

A little prudence now might save you lots of grief later.

Cheers,

PH
 

ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
Since you know it was run until it seized, you should drop the oil pan and check the main and rod bearings. You could fix it now rather than be stranded when the engine grenades and sends a rod through the side of the block.

A little prudence now might save you lots of grief later.

Cheers,

PH
If it really did seize, wouldn't it be knocking like crazy?? I've put 300 miles on it already...

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vanbcguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
Given your description it totally was seized and now it's broken free. Popping the clutch can put a lot more torque on things than the starter. It is a 2 ton car after all.

Yeah, it's probably a wounded engine. I'd get an oil pressure gauge on it, I'm sure it's low. But if it were me I'd probably drive the thing as is (though not on a road trip with my family or anything like that).
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
they seize on the number one cam journal ... pull the cam (not just the cap) and look at the number one cam saddle in the head and the number one cam journal ... you will find it badly galded.... this also severely stresses the timing belt ... i would not run it long with the current belt
 
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ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
I guess I assumed that the PO didn't know what he was talking about. That he either stalled it out, or... I'm not sure what. I'm not an engine expert by any stretch of the imagination, I just didn't think an engine could actually seize, then be broken free and run for more than 30 seconds without catastrophic failure.

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ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
Also the whole popping the clutch thing was with the car barely moving, although I understand the fact that that puts a lot more force on it than the starter. I'm gonna try to find time to drop the pan today and see what there is to see.

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jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
Also the whole popping the clutch thing was with the car barely moving, although I understand the fact that that puts a lot more force on it than the starter. I'm gonna try to find time to drop the pan today and see what there is to see.

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you probably won't find anything at all in the pan ... check the cam, that is what seized the engine and it's why you were able break it free by popping the clutch... and yes it will run fine all the while you are smearing the aluminum head with the galded bearing surface of the cam... and i'm not just pulling this out of my a$$ !... been there, seen that over and over ... but go ahead pull the pan if you want to waste your time finding out why the engine seized ... hint (it aint there)
 
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ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
No need to get an attitude. I'm not arguing with you. Someone suggested dropping the pan, which is why I said that.

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ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
I'm about to pull the cam. I'm assuming that if the head shows damage, it's trash...

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jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
if it's not too galded you can clean the saddle with a razor blade to make it square again ... it may be wise however to replace the cam... alot of stress gets imparted to the journal when it dead stops the entire rotating mass of the drivetrain ... the belt takes a hit too
 

ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
if it's not too galded you can clean the saddle with a razor blade to make it square again ... it may be wise however to replace the cam... alot of stress gets imparted to the journal when it dead stops the entire rotating mass of the drivetrain ... the belt takes a hit too
After thinking about your prior advice, I was afraid you were right. But it looks even worse than I feared. The cam is definitely the worst part. I do have a good used cam here, maybe I can clean the head enough...

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ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
Part of me wants to change the title of the thread... But I'm still in it very cheap, and I've learned some things.

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whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
The way I see it is that you already had spent the money on replacing the engine even if it was just in your head. Clean up the journal and throw that cam in it. If it fails down the road, you had already spent the money for the engine (in your head).

Of course this doesn't leave room for breaking down in the middle of nowhere, but if you are comfortable breaking down someplace and getting it home easily, you could just run it.

Just a thought.
 

ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
The way I see it is that you already had spent the money on replacing the engine even if it was just in your head. Clean up the journal and throw that cam in it. If it fails down the road, you had already spent the money for the engine (in your head).

Of course this doesn't leave room for breaking down in the middle of nowhere, but if you are comfortable breaking down someplace and getting it home easily, you could just run it.

Just a thought.
This is kind of what I was thinking. But I have an alh on the floor here that has a bad injector and/or a bent rod, and the golf is something I'd like to keep long term. At this point, with the cam removed, I'm thinking I might as well swap the head, cam, and pump (11mm) from the other motor, along with fresh belt/rollers/wp and have some peace of mind.

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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
That head looks pretty bad. My machine shop can fix those with bearings sometimes, though. Just depends on how bad it is. They bore them out bigger and install bearing shells to save the head. The cam is obviously junk.
 

ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
That head looks pretty bad. My machine shop can fix those with bearings sometimes, though. Just depends on how bad it is. They bore them out bigger and install bearing shells to save the head. The cam is obviously junk.
Yeah. I don't think I can justify the bill at the machine shop when I have a good head here.

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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I agree. But maybe not chuck that head in the scrap barrel yet. If I needed a core I might pay the shipping for it, but I have one good core and one already redone now. Not needing the ALH heads on the shelf like we used to.
 

ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
I agree. But maybe not chuck that head in the scrap barrel yet. If I needed a core I might pay the shipping for it, but I have one good core and one already redone now. Not needing the ALH heads on the shelf like we used to.
It's amazing to me how much the value of these cars (and parts) has dropped over the past 6 months or so.

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ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
03 Jetta, 02 Golf
Although I'm sure it'll change again when gas prices go back up.

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jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
although it looks pretty gnarled up, if you want to keep with the theme just imagine you're in saharan africa with just a spare cam, a belt and tools ... you have 1000 km to drive to safety but you may just be able to go just a bit further ;)
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
I had 2 heads like that. Sent them to Franko6 like 4 years ago, haven't seen or heard from them since. Soooo...don't send yours to that guy.
 
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