[Solved] 502 or 505 or 507 Engine Oil in 2006 TDI Beetle ?

zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
I read all the stickies related to lubricants, but cannot figure out how to determine if my 2006 TDI needs 502 or 507 oil.
I had great results using Mobil 1 0w40 in my Mercedes Benzes and Volvo and they are all over 300k with no engine trouble whatsoever. A real testament to Mobil 1.
I wanted to stick to Mobil 1 for the TDI as far as possible due to the results I got with the gas cars, but am not sure which oil is correct for the 2006 TDI Beetle due to the issue at Mobil site listed below. I use Shell Rotella in my tractors and diesel trucks which really works great, so that would also be a good option.

However, using Mobil's online oil matching page, I get the following
"
Recommended for your
2006 Volkswagen Beetle
Based on what you’ve told us, we do not currently have any products to help protect your vehicle.

"
So Mobil does not specify or have oil for 2006 Turbo Diesel and apparently do not feel confident to support the 2006 TDI. Go figure ..
Penzoil also do not have an official supported engine oil for the 2006 TDI from their matching page.

I then went to shell to match oil for the 2006 TDI
Shell then recommended the following on their matching site Helix Ultra ECT 0W40

So Helix Ultra ECT 0W40 seems to be what I need to use according to Shell specifically for a TDI Diesel Beetle 2006.
This is a 505 oil, so it seems according to Sheell the 2006 TDI Beetle needs 505


So do you think the Helix Ultra ECT 0W40 will be a good match based on your experience and since Shell Helix is basically unobtanium in my area, what can you suggest equally good. Any Rotella that can be used ?



Thanks
 
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turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
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Location
maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Both the Mobil1 TDT 5w40 and Rotella T6 5w40 are great oils for your '06 tdi.
 

DonL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Location
Kingman, Arizona
TDI
2005 Jetta wagon
My understanding is the 2006 TDI is a PD engine. I have been using Mobil 1 TDT exclusively for the last 200,000 miles in my Jetta. I understand the Rotella T6 is every bit as good. So, the advice is good.

BTW, after 10,000 miles, I never allowed the Castrol 505.01 oil in my TDI engine again. It was a low quality synthetic blend. Before I switched to TDT oil I used Motul Specific 5w-40, a Group III full synthetic. My cam is still healthy.
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
Northern MD (HAGERBUSH)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress)
Get off your high horse.
If you dont have anything to say .. just dont say it.
You must be new here! Feels like every few weeks we get the same bs. It's even posted on the sticky to not just ask what oil to use. If OP had actually searched and read the sticky like he/she claims, this would be answered. You don't have to read or respond either.
 

zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
Replaced the sump on the 06 Beetle TDI today. Towing company bashed a huge hole into the sump when I had the car moved. There is no pride in work these days anymore. No shame no care.

Thanks for the great help. I will use Shell rotella T6 by your recommendation and will get it today at Tractor supply. Best Price on Rotella here.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
502.00 = for VAG gasoline engines (most of them, anyway)

505.00 = VAG VE TDIs (so 1996-2003)

505.01 = VAG PD TDIs (2004-2006)

507.00 = VAG CR TDIs (2009-2015)

You can read anecdote and opinion page after page here, and yes, even winceworthy people like Mongler throw their two cents in (which is probably worth less than one cent, on a good day.... but whatever, I assume he means well).

I stick with oils that meet the VAG specs (as in, they are actually ON the bottle). This seems to work out well enough, and I work on these cars every day. We've been using Pentosin (Fuchs Oil, GMBH) products for over a decade with no issues. The HP2 5w40 (which meets the 502.00, 505.00, and 505.01 specs, as well as the even tougher MB 229.51 spec) is the most frequently used. I have PDs come through here with over 300k miles on them and the valve cover has never been off. *shrug*.
 
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zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
Thank you very much for your advice oilhammer.
I have been looking for 505.01 spec oils this morning and the huge list I found online did not list a single US available brand except the Castrol 505.01 and Pentosin as you use.

So Pentosin is probably in a general sense, the only safe 505.01 option if you want to play it safe.
Did not know Pentosin is Fuchs.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Keep in mind that Oilhammer is professional mechanic that works on other peoples cars for a living. It absolutely makes sense for him to stick with fluids officially approved by VW. Those approvals aren't always super meaningful. For instance, you can get 5w30 oils with 505.01 approval that are absolutely terrible for PD motors. Be sure to get a 40 weight 505.01 oil if you choose to go that route.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I can get Motul and Liquimoly and Redline brand oils that carry the appropriate specs on the bottle in 5w40, too. We switched from Castrol TXT years ago when they replaced it with SLX (which was at the time only available in 5w30). BP/Castrol was always my preferred brand of oil dating back to the air-cooled days, but their US branch seems to be unwilling to market anything wholesale beyond the dealers, it is very strange. Or local Castrol wholesaler could not even get an appropriate 505.01 spec 5w40 oil. There was eventually we found out something available through the Volkswagen dealers exclusively, but you had to special order it, and it was expensive. So we switched to Pentosin, which was a brand our local wholesaler had no problem getting, and we use so much of it we get it in 210L drums. We do a lot of fleet work, and the V6 Sprinter engine holds a whopping 12.5 L of oil! Even the 4cyl Sprinter holds 11.5 L, so we go through quite a bit of it.

We were just about to get the SP3 5w30 507.00 stuff for the CR diesels when Dieselgate hit, and our CR customer base largely vanished overnight. We had a fleet of JSW we maintained for a large medical courier/lab company, too. So for the few CR diesels that come in now, we just use the SP3 from the 5L jugs (we also use this same oil in the handful of BMWs we service, as that oil also meets their specs).

Pentosin is a brand I am familiar with, as we'd used their transmission and hydraulic fluids, brake fluids, etc. for decades. So I felt comfortable using their motor oils. And so far we've had no issues.
 

zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
Hydraulic fluid is an entirely different ballgame on it's own.
I used a lot of Eaton hydraulic drives, and at the time had the most unfortunate issues with fluid.
As time progressed the Drives needed to have hydraulic fluid replaced.
A few calls to Eaton, and I quickly realized that they had no clue what to prescribe for their own drives !
It ended up, with .. "well you can look at the vickers charts and figure out yourselves what you might use" or something along those lines, but they could not even tell me what I can buy off the shelf .. yeah right !
Got a local hydraulics "specialist" to help out, and that was even worse. The guy said I must just use 20w30 engine oil in the drives. I very politely walked him off the site.
A few more calls around to oil suppliers and the only help I got was from Shell.
They helped me to get the closest hydraulic spec that would not cause the fluid to either overheat or cavitate due to the incorrect viscosity.
For the drives that needed a fluid change but did not show excessive burning signs of the fluid, I mixed half of the old and new Shell hydraulic fluid. The drives with burnt oil, I replaced outright.
Shell saved me a lot of 4 figure damage.
As you said. it is senseless to blindly trust the manufacturer's specifications.
Weird and wonderful things happen, and I am still gobsmacked about the fact that a company can manufacture and sell products they dont have a clue what fluids are needed to run them.

That episode made me very very wary about what I put into engines/transmissions and hydraulic drives and I prefer to follow third party experience as way more valuable than manufacturers specification.
 

zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
Thank you all for the answers and opinions. The problem has been resolved to my satisfaction and I value all input.
My choices will be between Penzoil and Shell as mentioned in the thread for the TDI as I received great testament to both based on results in this thread and other experiences I read.
 

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI
Just as a note, t6 and mobil1 TDT are NOT 505.01 oils.
Personally I won't put anything except for what is supposed to be in there. I use liqui-moly top tech 4100 in my PD engines.
 

zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
From https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/wheres-the-vw-505-01-oil.189917/

The post Refers back to TDIclub group.

"
Please take it from someone with 7 years' experience with a PD TDI... 505.01 certified oils will lead to shorter cam life than any name brand 5w40 synthetic CJ-4 oil. Read up on cam life and 505.01 oil use at TDIClub. You'll find out why most of us that are still PD owners now use CJ-4 5w40 oil over VW-spec anything. You know what VW will want to know when you bring an 8 year old PD in for a strange 'bupping' noise at idle that's low on power? It won't be what oil you've been using. It will be if you have $4300 for them to replace the cam, bearings, lifters & timing belt (and they'll probably do all of that badly wrong). There's no reason to use a VW-spec lubricant in those engines except for warranty protection and the absolute newest PD that could possibly be out there in the US went out of powertrain warranty in 2011. Do what you will with your own car, but you're setting yourself up for an expensive ride on the failtrain.
"
 
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Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI
From https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/wheres-the-vw-505-01-oil.189917/

The post Refers back to TDIclub group.

"
Please take it from someone with 7 years' experience with a PD TDI... 505.01 certified oils will lead to shorter cam life than any name brand 5w40 synthetic CJ-4 oil. Read up on cam life and 505.01 oil use at TDIClub. You'll find out why most of us that are still PD owners now use CJ-4 5w40 oil over VW-spec anything. You know what VW will want to know when you bring an 8 year old PD in for a strange 'bupping' noise at idle that's low on power? It won't be what oil you've been using. It will be if you have $4300 for them to replace the cam, bearings, lifters & timing belt (and they'll probably do all of that badly wrong). There's no reason to use a VW-spec lubricant in those engines except for warranty protection and the absolute newest PD that could possibly be out there in the US went out of powertrain warranty in 2011. Do what you will with your own car, but you're setting yourself up for an expensive ride on the failtrain.
"
I used exclusively cj-4 spec 5w40 synthetic on my 2006 jetta PD after camshaft replacement with a kolbenshmidt cam with black nitride lifters. The camshaft wore out in 30k miles. Currently I have a 2005 passat with the BHW. It had been serviced with non 505.01 cj-4 spec oil before I got it, but I switched to liqui-moly and saw a drastic drop in all wear metals from before.
Someone's conspiracy theory about it causing more wear won't convince me.
 

zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
Mozambiquer wrote
Personally I won't put anything except for what is supposed to be in there.
Since Castrol 505.01 is the only oil that is prescribed by Volkswagen, does that mean by your rule that you only use Castrol if you only use what the manufacturer requires?

From what I can remember, everyone runs away as far as they can from Castrol for their TDI's.
 

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI
Mozambiquer wrote


Since Castrol 505.01 is the only oil that is prescribed by Volkswagen, does that mean by your rule that you only use Castrol if you only use what the manufacturer requires?

From what I can remember, everyone runs away as far as they can from Castrol for their TDI's.
No, I use liqui-moly 505.01 spec oil. Maybe the castrol brand one is problematic, nobody around has that one. I go with what they require as far as specification, not brand necessarily.
If you go with actual tests, not some joe who is claiming "this worked for me"
Volkswagen went through a lot more testing than any of those guys did, and yes, there have been cam issues, but personally, I will go with what is specified. You can do what you want on your car. I'll do what I want on mine and on my customer's cars.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Exactly zero of any of my regular since new customers' PDs, as well as my own PDs, have ever had the valve covers off.. Ever. And they all still run perfectly fine. I only use a 505.01 spec 5w40 motor oil in all of them. I have a 2005 BEW approaching 400k miles. I personally have serviced it since new, every 10k miles.

I will never argue the PD camshaft design isn't weak... it most certainly is. You can tell by looking at it. The lobes that work the valves were drastically narrowed to make room for the lobes that work the injector rockers. But that doesn't mean that they cannot have a decent life, well beyond what most people will even keep a car anyway.

Now I have done, and continue to do, PLENTY of failed PD camshafts. I have one example here right now, waiting for the OK to fix it. But in every case, there is spotty or non-existent oil change history. It is always "Oh, I use what the dealer says to use" ...which we know, after about 2006, is wrong. Or "I only use the correct stuff, but I bought it used at 60k miles".... so who knows what was used before. Or they insist on doing oil changes twice as often, which I think actually does more harm than good. Maybe because that few seconds the engine runs essentially with no oil pressure right after an oil change, after 200k miles, you've DOUBLED that amount if you've DOUBLED that interval. And since so much wear happens in those first few seconds... ???

I don't know. I service these cars every day. Not just fix broken ones.... people who JUST see things broken, and don't see the ones that are not, may not have the whole picture. The VAST majority of my regular PD customers' cars just get normal PM and wear items (tires, brakes, etc.) and the occasional thing like an alternator pulley or door latch or whatever. And if I service them regularly, I can stay on top of things, and they never end up a neglected basket case that needs $3500+ worth of work to get back into decent shape (I see plenty of those get dragged in here, too.... the above mentioned car with a dead cam is one such example).
 

zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
Oilhammer wrote:
Or they insist on doing oil changes twice as often, which I think actually does more harm than good. Maybe because that few seconds the engine runs essentially with no oil pressure right after an oil change, after 200k miles, you've DOUBLED that amount if you've DOUBLED that interval. And since so much wear happens in those first few seconds... ???
Exaclty, been told the same thing over and over by a very good ME for years and stuck to his recommendation with great success.

I have too many cars, but;
I cannot agree more with you, for some European cars at least.
My volvo 940 and 3 MB's (Two E320's and a 420) all have around 300,000 miles + and the engines are absolutely spectacular like new. I love them. i am currently trying to get some 300k+ badges for them I can stick on the back. i take a lot of pride in high mileage. But that is my perve.

I change oil ( Mobil 1 0W40 only ) on average every 15,000 km from onset.
I have never been a believer in changing high quality synthetic often.
A mechanical engineer told me to be careful not to change oil very often unless there is very good reason for it or unless you are a racing or a very heavy driver with big loads, which I am definitely not.
the 2,000mile oil change schedule some push here in the USA just baffles me. Ever since I came over from Germany decades ago, I was literally gobsmacked about all the nuisance required frequent oil changes. it is just a money making racket and entirely unnecessary and as oilhammer points out probably causes more wear. The same thing was told to me by a ME as mentioned.
the advice I got boils down to, not too frequent oil changes and stick to the correct oil.

But that is my experience and I stick to it. i am sure there is a barrage of counter arguments, but I am not interested. It works form me.
I had one US made car, a Cutlass Sierra, and the thing blew up after a short while and I never bought US again. Bought Japanese and German cars ever since and if you have a good mechanic, and stay away from dealers, they will last forever with little maintenance. That is with the exception of BMW, which has been an ulcer inducing maintenance thing I never want to drive again. the most un-german money-pit car really.
For the last 100k miles I have been doing most jobs myself as mechanics starts growling at cars over 200k.

As far as I can remember the 2006TDI Beetle has a suggested 8,000-10,000 km oil change schedule.
Porsche e.g. can be up to 20,000km on some models. If Europena cars last that long in europe with those schedules, why not in the USA ? Makes no sense with this frequent "Jiffy Lube" schedules.

E.g. for a Cayene
from "https://www.porsche.com/filestore.a...rk-bmarket-cayenne&lang=none&filetype=default"

Oil change
Nevertheless, Porsche recommends replacing
the engine oil and the oil filter every 15,000 km or every year.
 
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zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
Oilhammer, on another topic....
Is it possible to preload the engine somewhat with oil when you do an oil change to minimize the startup damage you mentioned. Preloading the oil filter is one way, but is there any other methods in addition?
I am pretty sure diesels have much less of this problem as you mention than gas, as diesel is more of an oil itself.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I don't think there is an easy way to prelube the engine, but I suppose if you really wanted to you could jump the starter motor and just crank the engine without letting it start. That's what I do for engine that are being started up for the first time, although in many cases (especially with diesels and DI gassers) it takes some cranking first to get the fuel system primed enough to let the engine start anyway.
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
Exaclty, been told the same thing over and over by a very good ME for years and stuck to his recommendation with great success.

I have too many cars, but;
I cannot agree more with you, for some European cars at least.
My volvo 940 and 3 MB's (Two E320's and a 420) all have around 300,000 miles + and the engines are absolutely spectacular like new. I love them. i am currently trying to get some 300k+ badges for them I can stick on the back. i take a lot of pride in high mileage. But that is my perve.

I change oil ( Mobil 1 0W40 only ) on average every 15,000 km from onset.
I have never been a believer in changing high quality synthetic often.
A mechanical engineer told me to be careful not to change oil very often unless there is very good reason for it or unless you are a racing or a very heavy driver with big loads, which I am definitely not.
the 2,000mile oil change schedule some push here in the USA just baffles me. Ever since I came over from Germany decades ago, I was literally gobsmacked about all the nuisance required frequent oil changes. it is just a money making racket and entirely unnecessary and as oilhammer points out probably causes more wear. The same thing was told to me by a ME as mentioned.
the advice I got boils down to, not too frequent oil changes and stick to the correct oil.

But that is my experience and I stick to it. i am sure there is a barrage of counter arguments, but I am not interested. It works form me.
I had one US made car, a Cutlass Sierra, and the thing blew up after a short while and I never bought US again. Bought Japanese and German cars ever since and if you have a good mechanic, and stay away from dealers, they will last forever with little maintenance. That is with the exception of BMW, which has been an ulcer inducing maintenance thing I never want to drive again. the most un-german money-pit car really.
For the last 100k miles I have been doing most jobs myself as mechanics starts growling at cars over 200k.

As far as I can remember the 2006TDI Beetle has a suggested 8,000-10,000 km oil change schedule.
Porsche e.g. can be up to 20,000km on some models. If Europena cars last that long in europe with those schedules, why not in the USA ? Makes no sense with this frequent "Jiffy Lube" schedules.

E.g. for a Cayene
from "https://www.porsche.com/filestore.a...rk-bmarket-cayenne&lang=none&filetype=default"

Uh - here in North America VW recommends 10,000 Miles (16,000 KM) between oil and filter changes on the TDI's, at least. I think it also applys to the gas motors as well. Most of that is because NA don't come with an oil life sensor like European cars do. Don't listen to the dealers or most mechanics - they all drill on the 5000 miles changes because of "unusally hard driving conditions" - BS IOW. I've done 10,000 mile changes since I got my 2000 TDI Beetle in March 2003 except once when I went 15000 miles on Shell Rotella T6 - regardless of what the mechanics say.
 

turbodieseldyke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Location
Free Mustache Rides
TDI
98 jetta
Or they insist on doing oil changes twice as often, which I think actually does more harm than good.
A friend recently bought a new Mazda 6. He showed me the postcard from the dealer telling him to come in for "Scheduled Service at 5,000mi" for $79.99 full synth oil change, inspect belts/fluids, blah blah. Told him to get the owners manual, and yep, there it is -- manufacturer's schedule is 7500mi or 12mo. But for harsh driving conditions, it's ... also 7500/12.

Crooks.
 

zimbodel

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Location
Warrenton va
TDI
1996-2006 TDI Beetle
I think we beat this one into a pulp and I got great opinions and direction.
I thank you all for the comments and the unselfish help.
From my point of view, my original questions were solved, and I noted it it as that in the title.
Again thanks to all.
 
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