Sold TDI Prior to Scandal - Get Nothing

[DanB36]

So, to repeat the question for the nth time (because it has yet to be answered), what's the harm? Specifically, what's the harm to someone who sold the car before 9/18/15? Even more specifically, what's the monetary harm to such a previous owner?

"I paid a premium price for the car" won't do it--the TDI was a "premium" engine, and priced higher than the base engine; that's been the case as long as there's been a TDI. The market price was higher when you bought, and it was also higher when you sold.

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

Same here. The new owner stands to get several thousand dollars more than I sold it for 2 years ago. This is not right. The fraud was initiated at the time of original sale. I would never have purchased this car had I known of this at the time. I could have spent less money on a more environmentally friendly car.

Does this mean you are still TDI-free but not loving it?

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

Windfall of 19K? Well, they paid 14K to you, so according to my math, he only gets a $5000 windfall.
Just picking nits here.

$14k plus sales tax, registration and all the other fees. Probably more like a $3000 windfall but who doesn't love windfalls?

 

[grwoolf]

Here's an angle - The original poster could claim "mental pain and suffering, nightmares, suicidal thoughts, beat his wife and kids, lost his job, etc." after the realization that he contributed to damaging the environment.

The only thing more ridiculous than this "angle" is the fact that he'd likely get his day in court if he wanted to spend the $ in court to pursue this approach.

My suspicion is that the OP is not pissed about VW lying, he's just pissed that he sold before the scandal broke. Much of life is luck and timing. If you get worked up over stuff like this, life will suck the life out of you.

 

[SoTxBill]

Would think that vw violated the federal standards of emissions and not the plaintiffs standards standards of emission. Any contract broken would be between the feds and vw. Unless the plaintiff can prove harm, there is no case between him and vw.... And he probably got the 1k goodwill package so he case is even more lacking. And again if he sold before any anouncement again,, he got the mpgs, the torque... and the quality or lack there of... and also he gained when he sold.. and he sold all rights... Therefore he has no standing, no claim, other than he is upset he sold too soon. And that is not a valid complaint against vw. Yes, he is even claiming had he not sold early, he would have $5000 more in his pocket... But that claim proves that it was his timing of his own choice and vw did NOT make him sell.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Here's another view: The OP sold his defective, illegal car 2 weeks before its illegality became public. Seems to me that the person who bought the car should be able to ask for restitution from the OP for selling a car that didn't meet the emissions standards it was advertised as meeting. He's been stuck driving, being near the exhaust, suffering the derision of his friends and neighbors, and unable to get his money back out of the car for 11 months. Even if the seller didn't know, that shouldn't matter. The OP still sold a car that didn't meet emissions standards.

 

[banshee365]

Does someone that bought an '09 and sold it in '10 deserve some of the buyback and restitution too? Give me a break.

 

[bizzle]

If the restitution is based on diminished value then no, but if it's based on consumer fraud it's a valid point to raise that it should be spilt equitably along all previous owners.

 

[Airpizz6]

Does someone that bought an '09 and sold it in '10 deserve some of the buyback and restitution too? Give me a break.

That seems to be the argument. Probably tens of thousands of '09s to '15s were bought and sold/traded before the scandal broke. I guess the folks involved could band together and try to do something. But so far as this settlement is concerned, it's just tough cookies.

 

[NYC-TDI]

If the restitution is based on diminished value then no, but if it's based on consumer fraud it's a valid point to raise that it should be spilt equitably along all previous owners.

That is the crux of the argument. If it was fraud, which it was, ALL owners were defrauded.

 

[NYC-TDI]

Does this mean you are still TDI-free but not loving it?

Nope still loving it. My 2010 Golf was the biggest POS I ever owned. More than happy I'm not dealing with its continual fit throwing anymore.

 

[drewnyc]

Except for a few snarky posts, this has been a fun thread to read. I guess that's some measure of restitution.

 

[drewnyc]

That is the crux of the argument. If it was fraud, which it was, ALL owners were defrauded.

Agree. VW made a profit from me by defrauding me. But for the fraud, I would not have bought the car. There should be a theory of economic harm somewhere in there.

 

[Random_Vibration]

All valid points although I don't think stock / home ownership are good analogies. It would appear that the VW "restitution" payment is more about apologizing for defrauding its customers rather than making people whole again. The guy who bought my car is essentially getting all his money back + use of a car for 1 year + $5500. I understand that I'm probably out of luck but it still doesn't feel right.

And VW is apologizing to the person who owns the car and is suffering damages because of their actions. Financially, you were free and clear. You were wronged but did not suffer any financial damages. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't care because it's over and done. No need to lament about the past because it changes nothing.

 

[Random_Vibration]

Agree. VW made a profit from me by defrauding me. But for the fraud, I would not have bought the car. There should be a theory of economic harm somewhere in there.

I would love to hear how you were harmed economically.

 

[k1xv]

So, if VW gave you the $5100 in compensation, instead of the guy who you sold the car to, he could claim that he was defrauded. By you. And he could then sue you for the "unjust enrichment" you got from VW for a fraud loss that you actually never suffered.

Or do you expect VW to pay out two separate and equal fraud losses on your former car?

 

[bizzle]

Quit being deliberately obtuse. He's explained how he feels economically harmed multiple times. Repeatedly asking him the same question is just trolling at this point.

He's also stated that he feels the compensation money should be *equitably* divided among the owners. If you don't understand that multi-syllabic word then look it up instead of repeating the question over and over.

 

[veritas137]

Forgive me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure your math is wrong. Owners sell the car back OR get it fixed and the restitution payment, not both.

 

[k1xv]

When you sell the car back, your payment has two components. One, the value of the car as of Sept 2015, and two, a restitution component, of a minimum of $5100. Those who choose to get the car fixed just get the restitution component. And, get to keep the fixed car.

 

[k1xv]

Let me try one more time.

When Bernie Madoff ran his fraudulent investment scheme, before the fraud was discovered, there were investors who sold out their positions, and got their money back, the same as if there was no fraud and the investments were real. While they were also "defrauded", they did not lose anything. So they are owed nothing, once the fraud was discovered. (Indeed, after the fraud was discovered, those left holding the bag wanted a "claw back" of the money paid out to those early exiting investors.)

I understand how you feel. But the payment system was developed, and approved by a court, to resolve LEGAL claims, and is based on LEGAL principles of who suffered an actual economic loss. And regardless of how you feel, someone who voluntarily sold a car at a price that reflected the pre-scandal market value did not suffer a loss for which there is a LEGAL basis for redress.

 

[bizzle]

It's not based on legal principles like you are suggesting. The agreement is a settlement, where trade-offs and concessions between all parties involved were made to reach an agreement swiftly.

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

Nope still loving it. My 2010 Golf was the biggest POS I ever owned. More than happy I'm not dealing with its continual fit throwing anymore.

When you sold the Golf, did you fully disclose all of the problems you had with it to the new owner prior to the sale?

After too many problems for my taste I got rid of my 2010 Golf TDI and went with a 2014 Toyota Yaris SE. Best automotive related decision in my life.

Maybe it's time to stop complaining, and move on with your life.

 

[Rico567]

The presumed basis for this thread can be summed up:

"Comparison is the death of joy." — Mark Twain

 

[oilhammer]

..
Maybe it's time to stop complaining, and move on with your life.

That about sums it up for a LOT of people on these forums lately. There was always a few complainers, but they typically were short lived and went away. But suddenly around September of last year the flood gates opened and 11ty squared people joined with seemingly no other purpose than to whine and cry. I feel confident that these people will soon fade away, but there are just SO MANY of them right now. I can only assume the rest of their lives are picture perfect and that all they have to be mad/sad about is their cars. Life is too short for that. If you are not a "car guy", that is, and it would seem pretty obvious most of those people are not.

 

[dgoodhue]

VW fines include spending money on recharging station infrastructure because the Gen 1 TDI won't meet the EPA limits without extensive modification. They aren't giving you money but they are trying offset the environmental damage cause by the 1st Gen TDI.

 

[NYC-TDI]

Maybe it's time to stop complaining, and move on with your life.

Maybe it's time to stop being a sanctimonious twit. (This applies to many on this board so don't take it too personally.)

 

[FVWVWF]

lol....I dont think there is one thread in the Dieselgate forum that would not cause punches to be thrown if discussed in person.

 

[Bisoned]

Maybe it's time to stop being a sanctimonious twit. (This applies to many on this board so don't take it personally.)

Can't ask for much more... a thread that quotes Mark Twain and also uses the word sanctimonious. You just made my day

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

Maybe it's time to stop being a sanctimonious twit. (This applies to many on this board so don't take it personally.)

Yesterday I read a few dozen of your old posts. They all had the same theme - all you have done since you joined the forum is complain complain complain.

Happiness is a choice, kiddo. Enjoy your perpetual misery.

 

[NYC-TDI]

Yesterday I read a few dozen of your old posts. They all had the same theme - all you have done since you joined the forum is complain complain complain.
Happiness is a choice, kiddo. Enjoy your perpetual misery.

Please refer to my previous post in this thread.