So, you like running B100 in your PD huh?

Mac The Diesel Junky

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Location
Utah
TDI
2004 VW Golf TDI
seeing those pictures is exactly why i stick with regular fuel. Biodiesel is a neat idea but there is way to much water in it hence all the rust. There are probably ways around it i just don't know enough about biodiesel. I know the hardcore hippies out here run there old rabbits on veggie oil and i have replaced more than one injection pump due to rust. Neat to read about though good thread topic:)
 

Bkcorso

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
TDI
2001 Golf
Saying the fuel is "ASTM spec B100", and then needing to run it through 2 water seperators... doesn't add up. If it was up to spec, water separators would not have been required.
 

tSoG

Active member
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Location
NW PA
TDI
I wish...
The push for offshore wind here could partner with an electric car to move us towards a more sustainable personal transportation system.

Some of you can grumble all you like, while others are working towards the future. It's just a matter of time. :D

I work for one of the largest power companies in the US, we'd love for you to use more 'lectrics. the reality of the matter is, we can't support a mass of "green" cars on the grid now, or any time in the near future.

I think it's great some people want to make a difference, I jus don't see how an electric car is making a difference with grid power. unless you, and everyone else that wants one, have a carbon neutral generator at home, running a windmill, solar panels, hydroelectric (generation, not pump storage :rolleyes::rolleyes:) or even a waste furnace/boiler for a steam turbine, an electric car is about as ecofriendly as building a steam powered car with a coal boiler....
 

ikendu

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Iowa
TDI
2003 Golf Indigo Blue
I wanna know where you think the 'lectric comes from for your huggie/touchie "my car eats rainbows and poops butterflies" plug in chevy volt. I'm guessing that it's a coal fired power plant. don't get me wrong, I wish we could ignore fossil fuels, and all sit around the camp IR LEDs roasting s'mores and holding hands while singing kumbaya, but the fact of the matter is, our electrical grid does not support this huggie/touchie save the world crap as much as people think/hope.

along the same lines, unless my memory is off, the amount your electric bill will jump will not lessen the costly burden of fueling up if you're already in a fuel efficient TDI.
it still takes energy to move your car around, and electricity is not cheaper than diesel.
I work for one of the largest power companies in the US, we'd love for you to use more 'lectrics. the reality of the matter is, we can't support a mass of "green" cars on the grid now, or any time in the near future.

I think it's great some people want to make a difference, I jus don't see how an electric car is making a difference with grid power. unless you, and everyone else that wants one, have a carbon neutral generator at home, running a windmill, solar panels, hydroelectric (generation, not pump storage :rolleyes::rolleyes:) or even a waste furnace/boiler for a steam turbine, an electric car is about as ecofriendly as building a steam powered car with a coal boiler....
After seeing such posts now for years, they just make me smile and chuckle. I especially like this aspect of such posts "for your huggie/touchie my car eats rainbows and poops butterflies", ...oh yeah! THAT is vintage. :)

Let's start with one aspect that is really, really simple; imported energy.

Your petroleum powered vehicle runs on a fuel that we simply don't have in abundance here in the good 'ole USA. I mean, we used to be the world's largest producer of petroleum. Heck, the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor because we pulled an "oil embargo" on them (kinda like the Saudis did on us in 1973).

But... those days are long, long gone. Most of that U.S. of A. oil is still floating around as carbon dioxide or helped make the ocean more acidic.

So... even if I use 100% coal to run my Volt, I still don't have to import one stinking drop of petroleum from overseas when I'm running on electricity (which will be most of the time for me).

Now... you raise a good issue, carbon.

Here in Iowa, we traditionally have gotten 85% of our electricity from Wyoming coal. Although, this year, Iowa topped 20% of our electricity from good 'ole U.S. of A. wind that will basically never run out as long as our sun keeps shining. My contract for my home's electricity is 100% renewable only. I'll grant you that it is hard to separate the coal electrons from the wind electrons, but, at least I'm spending my electric bill money to keep on building more and more wind electricity.

Let me see... as long as I'm driving straight diesel, I'm absolutely tied 100% to all fossil fuels and the carbon that goes with it.

With my Chevy Volt, I'm already swapping out 20% of that fossil fuel energy for totally renewable wind energy. And... if I want, I can easily put up my own solar array to produce 100% of my energy right here at my home. It'll produce during the peak load time during daylight hours (if you work for an electric utility, then you know how precious peak load electricity is). At night, when demand can be as much as 40% less than at peak, I'll be charging my Volt from some of that wind energy from night time wind.

Since electric drive vehicles charge at night, you do understand that there is a lot of grid capacity available at that time... yes?

So... imported energy? Chevy Volt wins!
... carbon? Already wins on 20% or more and climbing, right this very minute.

The next 10 years for diesels? Lots of imported energy and all carbon.
The next 10 years for the Volt? Virtually no imported energy and way less carbon year by year by year.

But... gotta love that wording "huggie/touchie my car eats rainbows and poops butterflies"! Thanks! Haven't had such a good laugh for a while!

Oh... and one more thing. I encourage you not to assume that no one knows where electricity comes from. There are such people that don't, but not every one. It isn't THAT hard to understand. Really. I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of your fellow human beings. For myself, I'm a degreed engineer that worked for GM for 17 years. I get it. I know where electricity comes from. Do you know where our oil comes from and what we have done to ensure its continued flow? Got any idea what the impact there is to our economy to spend so much of our money to import oil? Carbon is important ...but it is not the only thing that is important.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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ikendu

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Iowa
TDI
2003 Golf Indigo Blue
I work for one of the largest power companies in the US, we'd love for you to use more 'lectrics. the reality of the matter is, we can't support a mass of "green" cars on the grid now, or any time in the near future.
Here is a little news item you might find interesting:

Study Finds Enough Electric Capacity To 'Fill Up' Plug-in Vehicles
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061211221149.htm

"A new study for the Department of Energy finds that 'off-peak' electricity production and transmission capacity could fuel 84 percent of the country's 220 million vehicles if they were plug-in hybrid electrics."
 

aja8888

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Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
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Out of TDI's
I think electric cars are a good idea. Now if the U.S. would get progressive like France and get the majority of the existing power plants replaced with nuclear ones, we would need even less oil and coal.;)

I gotta start saving up my $40+K for a VOLT mini car...I wonder if my wife would mind if I sold her Lexus? :eek:
 

mlemorie

Veteran Member
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Location
Romulus Michigan
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2004 Jetta
I wondered why VW spec'd B5 max... Anyway onto the world energy stuff, I say follow Sweden, or maybe its Switzerland. Use Nuclear energy, and instead of having cooling towers, run pipes through the roads and have the hot water keep the roads clear of ice and snow in the winter ;) Hooray no salt!
 

hid3

Banned
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Lithuania, Vilnius
TDI
Golf V 1.9 TDI-PD 105 HP
Are the nozzles (the injector needles) replaceable or do you have to replace a whole injector?

How to get a part number or a nozzle?

Thanks.
 

sirpuddingfoot

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
05 Passat, 05 Jetta
A little more reading on the Iodine Value lead me to this little nugget:
The Iodine Value can be important because many Biodiesel fuel standards specify an upper limit for fuel that meets the specification. For example, Europe's EN14214 specification allows a maximum of 120 for the Iodine number, Germany's DIN 51606 tops out at 115. The USA ASTM D6751 does not specify an Iodine value.
The Iodine value indicates the number of Carbon-Carbon double bonds available for oxidation. As those bonds oxidize, you get that lovely varnish, or if you're cooking, rancid oil. Isn't that fun?

However, D6751 does specify an Oil Stability Index which should be a better indicator of the propensity to oxidize. I'd recommend some reading of the DOE BioDiesel handling and use handbook (which I found at the end of the first link) specifically pages 21-23 of the pdf (section 3.6.1).

Here's another good read about the actual stability test required by D6751 (Rancimat).

If I were to guess, I'd say that a lot of the Biodiesel used in this car had been sitting for at least a couple months, or at the very least, had undue exposure to air (oxygen)/sunlight (heat).

The gist is that this can happen even with ASTM spec fuel because of the propensity of Biodiesel to oxidize.
 

UFO

Veteran Member
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Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
Saying the fuel is "ASTM spec B100", and then needing to run it through 2 water seperators... doesn't add up. If it was up to spec, water separators would not have been required.
Yep, there is not much water in spec biodiesel. Doesn't add up.
 

ikendu

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Iowa
TDI
2003 Golf Indigo Blue
Hmmm... seems like we lost about a page and half of this thread?
 

Uisge

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Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS Black
For comparison, can anyone post pictures of PD injectors that have been run on dino-diesel for 140000 miles?
 

turbocharged798

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Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
One more reason to never touch a PD motor.
What an ignorant statement.:rolleyes:

The PD is a perfectly fine engine despite all the crap it gets on these fourms.

Run junk fuel through a ALH or AHU and it will mess up the injection pump pretty quickly. And an IP costs more than a PD cam.
 
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tSoG

Active member
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Location
NW PA
TDI
I wish...
After seeing such posts now for years, they just make me smile and chuckle. I especially like this aspect of such posts "for your huggie/touchie my car eats rainbows and poops butterflies", ...oh yeah! THAT is vintage. :)

Let's start with one aspect that is really, really simple; imported energy.

Your petroleum powered vehicle runs on a fuel that we simply don't have in abundance here in the good 'ole USA. I mean, we used to be the world's largest producer of petroleum. Heck, the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor because we pulled an "oil embargo" on them (kinda like the Saudis did on us in 1973).

But... those days are long, long gone. Most of that U.S. of A. oil is still floating around as carbon dioxide or helped make the ocean more acidic.

So... even if I use 100% coal to run my Volt, I still don't have to import one stinking drop of petroleum from overseas when I'm running on electricity (which will be most of the time for me).

Now... you raise a good issue, carbon.

Here in Iowa, we traditionally have gotten 85% of our electricity from Wyoming coal. Although, this year, Iowa topped 20% of our electricity from good 'ole U.S. of A. wind that will basically never run out as long as our sun keeps shining. My contract for my home's electricity is 100% renewable only. I'll grant you that it is hard to separate the coal electrons from the wind electrons, but, at least I'm spending my electric bill money to keep on building more and more wind electricity.

Let me see... as long as I'm driving straight diesel, I'm absolutely tied 100% to all fossil fuels and the carbon that goes with it.

With my Chevy Volt, I'm already swapping out 20% of that fossil fuel energy for totally renewable wind energy. And... if I want, I can easily put up my own solar array to produce 100% of my energy right here at my home. It'll produce during the peak load time during daylight hours (if you work for an electric utility, then you know how precious peak load electricity is). At night, when demand can be as much as 40% less than at peak, I'll be charging my Volt from some of that wind energy from night time wind.

Since electric drive vehicles charge at night, you do understand that there is a lot of grid capacity available at that time... yes?

So... imported energy? Chevy Volt wins!
... carbon? Already wins on 20% or more and climbing, right this very minute.

The next 10 years for diesels? Lots of imported energy and all carbon.
The next 10 years for the Volt? Virtually no imported energy and way less carbon year by year by year.

But... gotta love that wording "huggie/touchie my car eats rainbows and poops butterflies"! Thanks! Haven't had such a good laugh for a while!

Oh... and one more thing. I encourage you not to assume that no one knows where electricity comes from. There are such people that don't, but not every one. It isn't THAT hard to understand. Really. I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of your fellow human beings. For myself, I'm a degreed engineer that worked for GM for 17 years. I get it. I know where electricity comes from. Do you know where our oil comes from and what we have done to ensure its continued flow? Got any idea what the impact there is to our economy to spend so much of our money to import oil? Carbon is important ...but it is not the only thing that is important.

Just my 2 cents.

:eek: you sure can buy a lot for two cents with this economy.

first. I tell people the "huggie touchie" rant because most of the people I talk to about fuel economy, and it's potential are... well, idiots. I'm quite sick of being told "iunno, my hemi gets purty good milage, i only fill up maybe once a week." I apologize for assuming or implying everyone on here is.

second, you do have some valid points. great to see someone doing his or her part.

third, everyone should buy them fancy wind credits, so all the coal plants don't need to burn anymore. :rolleyes:

fourth, you know what else runs on batteries besides your huggie/touchie "my car eats rainbows and poops butterflies" plug in chevy volt? it's starts with vi, ends with brator, and is also designed for pus.... ok ok that might be a lil much.

I apologize, I'm up past my bedtime. I'd actually write up a polite response in the morning, but can we get back to why my engine isn't allowed to run bio? I'll gladly take this to PM if you'd like to continue :)
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
First, I'd like to thank SirPuddingFoot and Ikendu for posting some real information on this thread. :)

I'd also like to hear what the noob has to say in educating a GM engineer about the Volt's batteries. :D Does he really think they are the same ones that are in his vibrator?? :p

Seriously: Ikendu's point are spot on, and corroborate with information I've found about EV's.
 
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Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, MA. USA
TDI
2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700
Your petroleum powered vehicle runs on a fuel that we simply don't have in abundance here in the good 'ole USA.

this year, Iowa topped 20% of our electricity from good 'ole U.S. of A. wind that will basically never run out as long as our sun keeps shining.
Let me see... as long as I'm driving straight diesel, I'm absolutely tied 100% to all fossil fuels and the carbon that goes with it.

With my Chevy Volt, I'm already swapping out 20% of that fossil fuel energy for totally renewable wind energy. And... if I want, I can easily put up my own solar array to produce 100% of my energy right here at my home.
So... imported energy? Chevy Volt wins!
... carbon? Already wins on 20% or more and climbing, right this very minute.

The next 10 years for diesels? Lots of imported energy and all carbon.
The next 10 years for the Volt? Virtually no imported energy and way less carbon year by year by year.
There is enough cooking grease illegally dumped into the NYC sewer system (not recycled as the law requires) to produce enough biodiesel to run every city owned diesel engine in the 5 borough district. And that just the illegally dumped stuff that has to be removed before sewage treatment.
Supply of post-consumer waste oil is not an issue.

Biodiesel is 75% carbon neutral, not 20% as your electric is, but nearly 4 times greener (less brown?).

You don't have a Volt, nor any other electric car either. If it's such an important issue to you, why haven't you yet taken any steps to mitigate your impact with regards to your personal transportation choice.
You don't have a solar array either. So just WHEN will you do something?

My biodiesel use had been in place for the past 10 years, reducing my automotive sourced fossil carbon emission by 75%. You might not do anything for 10 MORE years. By then I expect that I'll have 20 years of biodiesel use.

My electric supply is presently nearly 50% renewable, non-GHG emitting, sourced. You'll need to pick someone else if you want to win a "Greener-Than-Thou" bragging contest.

Maybe I'll need to have DBW wash off my biodiesel "damaged" injectors every 150k miles instead of at 175k miles, but that's a cost with which I can live (literally).
 
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kcfoxie

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
This is a "I"m doing something now" vs a "I'm waiting for someone to hand me a path" debate, so far as I can tell.

DBW has only stated that using this one type of alt fuel with questionable water contents may cause harm to injectors on, what I'd say, is a shorter-run of diesel engines (SURELY there are more ALHs than BEW and BRMs combined...) offered in the USA by VW.

The lesson I take? Don't own a PD. At all, ever. If you do, be prepared for a lot more upkeep. Turn key as it may be, it's a pita to upkeep. I'm never owning another TDI built after 2003.
 

40X40

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Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
SSDD.

The minority fringe screams and hollers, while the the majority moderates do all the actual work. Perhaps that is for the best when it keeps the idiots out of out way while so we can get more work done. (healthy food produced, pollution reduced.)

Pick a week and save the world already if you think you can. I've been working on it all my life, I don't want or expect any thanks, but stop getting in the way of progress.

Bill
 

kcfoxie

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TDI
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SSDD.

The minority fringe screams and hollers, while the the majority moderates do all the actual work. Perhaps that is for the best when it keeps the idiots out of out way while so we can get more work done. (healthy food produced, pollution reduced.)

Pick a week and save the world already if you think you can. I've been working on it all my life, I don't want or expect any thanks, but stop getting in the way of progress.

Bill
Agreed.
 

aja8888

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Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
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Blocked again

ikendu

I blocked his posts over a year ago and just unblocked them in this thread. Nothings changed, no electric car yet, no solar array, same bantering, kind of sounds like the Sierra Club goons I had to listen to years ago when living in CA.

Blocked again as of 7/28/2010.;)
 

shizzler

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Location
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?

I happen to find ikendu's posts informative and well thought out. Is he a green-nut? Sure, but we all should be. If you're not passionate about finding solutions and making personal sacrifices to meet them, you ARE part of the problem. Face it, armchair engineering and thinking you have all the answers does nothing to help.

Does anyone disagree with him that it would be extremely difficult to find enough oil feedstock to swtich our nation's tranportation needs over to biodiesel? Of course if you do have it and can use it you should, as he does! But this is not the long term future of our transportation energy supply. Wind and solar CAN supplant a very real % of our total energy use, so electric cars will make a lot of sense in the future. As always, there is no silver bullet, and a variety of solutions should be implemented concurrently for most benefit.
 

kcfoxie

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Joined
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Location
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TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
?

I happen to find ikendu's posts informative and well thought out. Is he a green-nut? Sure, but we all should be. If you're not passionate about finding solutions and making personal sacrifices to meet them, you ARE part of the problem. Face it, armchair engineering and thinking you have all the answers does nothing to help.

Does anyone disagree with him that it would be extremely difficult to find enough oil feedstock to swtich our nation's tranportation needs over to biodiesel? Of course if you do have it and can use it you should, as he does! But this is not the long term future of our transportation energy supply. Wind and solar CAN supplant a very real % of our total energy use, so electric cars will make a lot of sense in the future. As always, there is no silver bullet, and a variety of solutions should be implemented concurrently for most benefit.
More than enough studies have shown that you can produce algae and hemp to make enough oil without devastating or reusing farm land. I mean for pete's sake the kids grow the THC version in PVC pipes with fluorescent lights.

Yes, I think that laws prevent crops from being used to take us off foreign oil. Call me what you will, but that's what I believe. We're stuck in this rut for political and not scientific reasons.
 
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