So, you like running B100 in your PD huh?

[ducesrwld]

well, we've got our processor in the process of getting put together and hopefully will be on our first few trials this fall. we've got a mentor that has been putting it in his trucks for many years with good results. time will tell....

 

[dieselpower04]

No, this is why I like B5 in my PD

 

[sirpuddingfoot]

I bet that B100 had a high Iodine Value.
Why it makes a difference.

The short answer:

High-IV oils have lower melting points and make better cold-weather biodiesel, but with high-IV oils there is more risk of the biodiesel oxidising and polymerising (drying) into a tough, insoluble plastic-like solid. Biodiesel made from high-IV oils should be stored carefully and used quickly.

"Semi-drying" oils like soy and sunflower are also prone to oxidation and polymerisation, though not as quickly as the drying oils.

I live in MN. I don't ever intend to run B100 on a regular basis precisely because of that fear. I've considered going as high as B70 during the summer (mixed on my own per tank), but the "extra work" required isn't worth it compared to splashing some PowerService in the tank and filling at the premium pump.

 

[grizzlydiesel]

sirpuddingfoot - very interesting post, thats the first ive read about Iodine Value. although i thought it stood to common knowledge that biodiesel dosnt like to be stored for extended periods. brew what youre gonna use. on a sustainable level.

 

[ikendu]

Can you hold off a bit longer? I'm hoping the VW plug in hybrid diesel will be here in a few years. And if they have solved the biodiesel or WVO thing for new diesels...

Well, maybe. If my experience with VW warranty and service practices was better, I'd be more inclined to wait for a new VW design of my liking. As far as VW ever embracing biodiesel, I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

I think that diesel is inherently a superior ICE approach, but, now that the emissions are "cleaned up", the advantages of diesel are not nearly so great. Most of my driving will be on pure electric (I have a 32 mile round trip commute). So... the backup energy source could almost be about anything for a Plug-in Hybrid.

 

[manual_tranny]

Any chance the owner can obtain and post the certificates of analysis?

+1 !!!

I can't believe that B100 is being singled out as the only probable cause...

There isn't enough evidence!

 

[steelmb]

Well, maybe. If my experience with VW warranty and service practices was better, I'd be more inclined to wait for a new VW design of my liking. As far as VW ever embracing biodiesel, I'm not going to hold my breath for that.
I think that diesel is inherently a superior ICE approach, but, now that the emissions are "cleaned up", the advantages of diesel are not nearly so great. Most of my driving will be on pure electric (I have a 32 mile round trip commute). So... the backup energy source could almost be about anything for a Plug-in Hybrid.

You said in post #12 that you weren't going to post again in this thread.

Them's fightin' words!

Literally, as in Gulf War #1, Afganistan, Gulf War #2, etc. ...on into the future (that future shooting war with China as we struggle to control the last large reserves of petroleum on the planet (the Middle East). Let's not turn this thread into "why we use bio" because it has been conversed on deeply, over and over on this forum.
This is the last I will say on this thread.
It is clear to many that using petroleum has many unintended consequences for our environment, our economy and our security. There are those of us that bought a VW diesel solely for the purpose of finding a way to travel, without using so much oil.
For me... it means my first diesel, will be my last diesel. I'm still driving my '03 Blue Indigo Golf TDI (142,000 miles now) and I have found it to be an excellent vehicle; smooth, powerful, great mileage, and... allowed me to cut my use of petroleum by 75% that whole time compared to driving my former gas guzzler, the 36 mpg Honda Civic.
I thnk my next drive will be a Chevy Volt. I can convert my own driving energy, right at my home, and it will be the fuel for which the vehicle was designed. I've loved my Golf and really loved every mile driving on virtually zero petroleum fuel.
For those that you have been driving PDs on B100 for principle... I salute you!
It looks like trying to use a fuel for which the engine was not designed carries risks. I accepted and continue to accept those risks in my '03 ...but probably for only about a year longer.

 

[aja8888]

Great thread!

Maybe DBW can add a bit more info here as to the source and type of bio diesel. A little bio diesel is good for lubricity (as we all know), but this industry is too new and NOT WELL REGULATED for quality, certificates notwithstanding. This is pretty evident with the variety of member's results on this forum.

I was on the financing end (at work) of a independent bio diesel start up two years ago here on the Ship Channel and the cast of characters was a story to itself. Not concerned about the end product as much as they were about creating wealth (know what I mean?).....the plant never got funded or built.

I'm sure there are lots of good suppliers, but be careful. Also, stick with soy based product, if you can.

 

[Riley]

Holy crap!! My B4V is worthless since I've been running B100!!! I guess my 02 Beetle is going to be worthless too, as I switch it over to B100. I like not contributing to the oil company's record profits....especially f__ing BP. More importantly, I also don't want to send any money to the middle east. I'll gladly pay for new nozzles or IP every 140K miles. I like the PD's but don't see one in my future.

 

[toadz1]

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2933273&postcount=1


Yep, worth less. Soon to have more value only as scrap parts. Of course you could always have an accident and find out what the insurance company pays out for a 14 to 15 year old wagon. Looks like Lug_Nut sold his while the getting was still good.

 

[ikendu]

You said in post #12 that you weren't going to post again in this thread.

Gee. Please accept my profound apologies for the not-completely-what-I-meant-wording in that first post. I meant that the "reasons for using B100" have thoroughly discussed and I'd post no more on that issue in this thread; not that I wouldn't answer a question about my next ride.

 

[philngrayce]

Please keep posting. I understand your concern about VW dealers, but I wonder if a GM dealer would be any better, especially with a brand new design?

 

[ikendu]

Please keep posting. I understand your concern about VW dealers, but I wonder if a GM dealer would be any better, especially with a brand new design?

Indeed. I worked for GM for 17 years and bought many GM cars that whole time. The dealer experience ranged from OK to pretty-darn-awful. I would say my VW dealer experience is OK at best. They broke my vacuum hose for my power brakes during servicing and wanted to charge me $120 for a 4" piece of hose because VW doesn't OEM just that piece of hose (had to buy an entire unit).

I would like to "Buy American" too for my next ride. I'm not completely opposed to buying imported cars (got two right at the moment; VW & Mazda). I do worry about our shrinking manufacturing base in the U.S. It's nice that GM is in the lead for PHEVs. I want them to succeed.

 

[grizzlydiesel]

quite frankly, having also been a gm employee, i wouldnt think twice about buying a gm, but im so frustrated about how far up their rear ends their heads are that im sticking with my german cars. (although my truck is chevy). The chevy volt, and their sedans, would benifit greatly from the CDTI engines they have in europe.

 

[RC]

The chevy volt, and their sedans, would benifit greatly from the CDTI engines they have in europe.

Ditto.

Then I'd buy one.

 

[aja8888]

Ditto.
Then I'd buy one.

What color would you choose?

 

[grizzlydiesel]

What color would you choose?

honestly i just wish the volt looked more like the vauxhall ampera, that car in white or black is SCHMEXY!!

 

[Lug_Nut]

My original response to this post has been pulled for being outside the bounds of appropriate content.
Here is a less offensive re-issue:

Originally Posted by Lug_Nut

This was ASTM spec B100 that was heated to remove the Methanol and water. The fuel was double filtered to 2 microns, then pumped thru DUAL water seperators...per the owner.

Any chance the owner can obtain and post the certificates of analysis?

RC, Any time you want to pull the cover off your IP this month and take pictures of the insides of your Quantity Adjusters, on both B4vs, we'll wait and see how the pictures come out. Until then, you're all Hat, and no Cattle.

Mooo...


full size image is at
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...on-bio&cat=500

 

[Lug_Nut]

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2933273&postcount=1


Yep, worth less. Soon to have more value only as scrap parts. Of course you could always have an accident and find out what the insurance company pays out for a 14 to 15 year old wagon. Looks like Lug_Nut sold his while the getting was still good.

Sold which one?

Black Passat bought at 174,851 miles, switched to Bio at 203,293 miles, sold at 290,745 miles. The new owner's son was still driving it last I checked with him.

Red wagon bought at 151,560, switched to bio when I started driving it. It was totaled at 220,812 miles. That engine then went into the white GLX conversion with 138,540. Sold at 172,139 miles (254,411 miles on the drive line) and sold at a profit.

Green Jetta went to bio when I bought it at 192,060, sold to a home brewer, also sold at a profit.

The ones I still have
Brown B5.5 now at 167,500.
Green Cabrio, 233,833 on the engine.

The black wagon I recently sold? Also at a profit.

Much of that opportunity for profit is from shrewd purchasing of cars that ran like crap from clogged intakes dues to the diesel soot, so I thank all of you that swear off any biodiesel as you provide me with low cost, easy repair, highly profitable cars to either keep or to sell.

 

[tSoG]

I wanna know where you think the 'lectric comes from for your huggie/touchie "my car eats rainbows and poops butterflies" plug in chevy volt. I'm guessing that it's a coal fired power plant. don't get me wrong, I wish we could ignore fossil fuels, and all sit around the camp IR LEDs roasting s'mores and holding hands while singing kumbaya, but the fact of the matter is, our electrical grid does not support this huggie/touchie save the world crap as much as people think/hope.

along the same lines, unless my memory is off, the amount your electric bill will jump will not lessen the costly burden of fueling up if you're already in a fuel efficient TDI.
it still takes energy to move your car around, and electricity is not cheaper than diesel.

ontopic: i would like more info on this trashed PD injection system. why is this a simply a problem on PDs and not earlier diesels? higher injection pressures and therefore fuel temperatures? to rust out so quickly it seems like an awfully high water content for heated/ filtered/'fuged/etc fuel...

 

[RC]

I wanna know where you think the 'lectric comes from for your huggie/touchie "my car eats rainbows and poops butterflies" plug in chevy volt. I'm guessing that it's a coal fired power plant.

The push for offshore wind here could partner with an electric car to move us towards a more sustainable personal transportation system.

Some of you can grumble all you like, while others are working towards the future. It's just a matter of time.

 

[RC]

RC, Any time you want to pull the cover off your IP this month and take pictures of the insides of your Quantity Adjusters, on both B4vs, we'll wait and see how the pictures come out. Until then, you're all Hat, and no Cattle.

I'll let Lugnut's pic speak for mine.

Cover has been pulled, all is clean.

 

[kcfoxie]

One more reason to never touch a PD motor.

 

[Drivbiwire]

One more reason to never touch a PD motor.

...with anything other than b5-b10.

Same goes for the common rail motors, they run even hotter (fuel temp).

 

[Bob_Fout]

How is Europe making Rapeseed bio work?

 

[Drivbiwire]

How is Europe making Rapeseed bio work?

They limit it to B7...

They are pushing for Bio-GTL and getting away from conventional biofuels as well (cutting the tax breaks on the obsolete Biodiesel fuel types), this will allow 100% Biofuels that meet the requirements of the modern fuel systems and provide a 100% renewable fuel.

 

[RC]

Can't wait!

 

[That Guy]

I have a question for the gurus...it's kind of on topic...and off.

Would running one of those water/meth injection systems possibly cause similar injector/fuel system rust as shown at the beginning of the thread?


And back on topic...

It seems that you're doomed either way.
Diesel = soot build-up (from injectors to Turbo)
Bio = varnish/rust build-up (from IP to injectors)

As far as the soot on the injectors...does a good hard run help to remove that as it does with the Turbo?

 

[Bkcorso]

SO whats the normal life span of injectors ?
What does the manufacturer state as service life ?

I've read between 100k-150k miles is normal, is that not right ?

 

[dalchri]

It would be good to know...

What was the feedstock for the biodiesel?

You probably see many examples of PD injectors run on bio. I'm sure you don't always have the particulars of % or mileage. Even so, do you have a feel for how long it takes for a PD injector run on B100 to get to the point that it may start damaging the engine?

Have you ever seen a PD injector run on bio that was not in dire condition. If so, the particulars such as feedstock, %, mileage, additives used, etc... would be helpful.

The fact that biodiesel can cause the problems you have identified in a PD is helpful to know. The analysis that B100 = no in a PD is less helpful than it could be.