So VW will remarket the cars?? so much for a 14 Billion loss

[MBQ]

This video outlines why our cars should not be dismantled, parts removed, and/or turned into art cars. Imagine pulling parts and/or turning them into art cars, you show up looking to turn the car in and they either deny the buyback or significantly reduce the buyback amount because various parts are missing.
It was specifically stated in the video that all parts of the car are property of VW/Audi.

No.They can't.

It's all well documented in the approved settlement.

 

[mydecember1985]

Video is gone or moved. I missed it.

Did anyone rip the video or mirror it? I'd love to check it out. I havent been on for a few days.

 

[TDIinMA]

Video is gone or moved. I missed it.

You didn't miss much.

It was an employee training video from Audi, but the main takeaway is that the dealers are going to keep and "remarket" the cars, after the fix is applied.

Which begs the question ...

Why are enhancements like a new head unit that expands the capability of the original not considered in the assessment for the buy back? If I replace my perfectly good head unit that has Satellite Radio, DVD player, Garmin GPS, and a backup camera installed with the lame-o one that died out of warranty, aren't they going to have to replace that with a new stock one to get the car ready for resale? I realize it would be an inexact science and possibly invite some haggling, but I would take half what it's worth to alleviate the need to do the work to uninstall and replace items like this. Their approach and blanket statement that no mods will be considered in the buy back seems foolish and shortsighted.

 

[Philpug]

Let's see how many people actually follow through and purchase one when the dealer says MSRP (or better). A BUNCH of the people with deposits down did so because they're expecting a steal.

I am in the latter. No way am I considering a 15 at or near MSRP, it is a 2 year old car, when I can get al Alltrack for 2-3K off of MSRP, the TDI will have to be thousands below that. Will I miss the mileage, yes but I will have AWD, heated seats and Apple CarPlay.

 

[DanB36]

Their approach and blanket statement that no mods will be considered in the buy back seems foolish and shortsighted.

Perhaps, but it's consistent and efficient. They've got half a million cars to deal with, and simplifying it to factory-installed options is going to make things much simpler than if they had to try to account for aftermarket stuff.

Though that leaves the question of what to do when a factory-installed option has been removed...

 

[HBarlow]

Dealers never allow extra money for aftermarket equipment on trade-ins. Why should VWAG?

We're being overpaid for these cars anyway. What's to complain about?

 

[autdi]

Perhaps, but it's consistent and efficient. They've got half a million cars to deal with, and simplifying it to factory-installed options is going to make things much simpler than if they had to try to account for aftermarket stuff.

Though that leaves the question of what to do when a factory-installed option has been removed...

It would be reasonable if it was accounting for the factory options. The biggest option missing is the lighting package. HID was a $1k+ option, you get nothing for it. That is not aftermarket, that is from the factory.

 

[TDIinMA]

I spoke with a salesman at a dealer today, who was actually quite knowledgeable and up on the whole scandal, and he emphatically denied the cars will be resold at the dealers. He said once they come in, they are being shipped to VW.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

That's right, but it's half the info. The cars are going back to VW, getting fixed, and VW plans to offer them back to dealers to sell. If dealers don't want a specific vehicle it'll be wholesaled. So a car turned in at one dealer may end up at another dealer for sale.

 

[rgoetz]

Hey, I just bought a new GTI, but as far as the condition of my JSW when I return it (likely in 2 years), so long as it is moving on it's own power, here's my legal analysis:

f**k VW

clear?

 

[gcodori]

That's right, but it's half the info. The cars are going back to VW, getting fixed, and VW plans to offer them back to dealers to sell. If dealers don't want a specific vehicle it'll be wholesaled. So a car turned in at one dealer may end up at another dealer for sale.

According to the video, the car being fixed will be offered to the dealer that took in the car first. If they do not want it VW will enter it into a new computerized inventory system specifically for TDIs (similar to the inventory software currently used). Last resort is wholesale auction.

So they will not only resell the TDIs but you could possibly locate the exact one you want the same way a dealer can find a new/used vehicle.

I was going to wait to see what the fix will be - I'm sure there will be a drop in performance and MPG (or they would have already made them this way) - despite what the EPA promises in terms of accepting the fix. The agreement never spelt out how much difference the EPA would allow for drops in performance and MPG. The fact that the owners who elect a fix get new "mileage documentation" upon completion of the fix confirms a drop in MPG (most likely back down to the EPA factory ratings).

I was thinking that it might be worth it to get the fix in my passat and take the fix money and either sell the passat privately and buy an Audi A6 TDI (or trade in for one) - as the more powerful (3.0) motor will make up for the loss of some power.

Great way to keep a TDI with a step up in luxury.

Question - will the extended "FIX" warranty (100,000/120,000 miles) be applied to the resold TDIs? Would VW consider doing this as an incentive to those concerned about buying a fixed TDI? If they don't extend the warranty to the resold ones, they might as well forget about selling them at all - the only people who would buy a resold TDI in this situation are those who would never take it to the dealer in the first place...

I would love to take my 13 Passat SEL to a dealer and walk out with an A6 TDI prestige without any change in my loan.

 

[meerschm]

Question - will the extended "FIX" warranty (100,000/120,000 miles) be applied to the resold TDIs? Would VW consider doing this as an incentive to those concerned about buying a fixed TDI? ....

yes. for high mile cars, it is an additional 4 yrs/48,000 miles. (and for less-driven, 10 years, 120k for the early, 150k for the 2015s)

Spelled out in the draft documents published in June.

Quote:

Sale and Export of Returned Vehicles. Notwithstanding the requirements of​

subparagraphs 7.2.1 and 7.2.2 above, Settling Defendants may elect to resell or sell any returned​

Eligible Vehicle or any 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicle in the United States, provided, however, that​

Settling Defendants first modify the particular vehicle in accordance with the applicable​

Approved Emissions Modification, label such vehicle, and provide the Approved Emissions​

Modification Disclosure, Warranty, and Warranty Remedies as provided in Paragraph 5.3 above​

to prospective purchasers, and meet the other requirements for resale of returned vehicles

https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/871306/download

see page 73 of 225

 

[GoFaster]

I was thinking that it might be worth it to get the fix in my passat and take the fix money and either sell the passat privately and buy an Audi A6 TDI (or trade in for one) - as the more powerful (3.0) motor will make up for the loss of some power.

If you're planning to get the fix and THEN sell the car, I think you will do better to just let them buy it back and let them assume the risk of what happens to the resale value.

The videos that folks have tracked down (good job sleuthing, by the way!) suggest VW is going to try to fix as many of these as possible - they don't even mention the possibility of any other course of action. What that tells me, is that reality has not yet set in with regards to the law of supply and demand. If they try to resell substantially all of the buyback cars (as opposed to the best one-third of them and scrap the rest as I've suggested!) it is likely to crater resale values simply on account of the sheer number of them that will be on the market at the same time.

There is even the theoretical possibility that you could have them buy the car back and then later buy your OWN car back at a fire-sale price and come out better than taking the "fix" money.

 

[TDIinMA]

If you're planning to get the fix and THEN sell the car, I think you will do better to just let them buy it back and let them assume the risk of what happens to the resale value.

The videos that folks have tracked down (good job sleuthing, by the way!) suggest VW is going to try to fix as many of these as possible - they don't even mention the possibility of any other course of action. What that tells me, is that reality has not yet set in with regards to the law of supply and demand. If they try to resell substantially all of the buyback cars (as opposed to the best one-third of them and scrap the rest as I've suggested!) it is likely to crater resale values simply on account of the sheer number of them that will be on the market at the same time.

There is even the theoretical possibility that you could have them buy the car back and then later buy your OWN car back at a fire-sale price and come out better than taking the "fix" money.

Yes, but what recourse do they have? Selling them at deeply discounted prices (esp. if the "fix" reduces the efficiency substantially) beats the crusher..

 

[GoFaster]

That depends. There is a cost of doing the fix itself (although if they get away with just a new LNT and exhaust flap and O2 sensor, that cost is potentially not that bad). There is a cost associated with providing that extra warranty coverage ... including that infernal HPFP and the DPF. There is a cost associated with transporting the car around and administering the whole fix and resale of it. That is on top of the usual risks associated with any used car. If these costs add up to more than what they can sell the car for ... it's better dead than alive.

If it becomes apparent that the "fix" has any problems associated with it, be it driveability or power or fuel consumption or reliability ... look out below.

The late model low mileage cars that haven't been damaged or modified make sense to fix and resell. The others ... maybe not.

 

[TDIinMA]

That depends. There is a cost of doing the fix itself (although if they get away with just a new LNT and exhaust flap and O2 sensor, that cost is potentially not that bad). There is a cost associated with providing that extra warranty coverage ... including that infernal HPFP and the DPF. There is a cost associated with transporting the car around and administering the whole fix and resale of it. That is on top of the usual risks associated with any used car. If these costs add up to more than what they can sell the car for ... it's better dead than alive.

If it becomes apparent that the "fix" has any problems associated with it, be it driveability or power or fuel consumption or reliability ... look out below.

The late model low mileage cars that haven't been damaged or modified make sense to fix and resell. The others ... maybe not.

Agreed, they will likely establish some criteria and those that do not meet the balance of cost effectiveness will be crushed or stripped for parts.

 

[autdi]

That depends. There is a cost of doing the fix itself (although if they get away with just a new LNT and exhaust flap and O2 sensor, that cost is potentially not that bad). There is a cost associated with providing that extra warranty coverage ... including that infernal HPFP and the DPF. There is a cost associated with transporting the car around and administering the whole fix and resale of it. That is on top of the usual risks associated with any used car. If these costs add up to more than what they can sell the car for ... it's better dead than alive.

If it becomes apparent that the "fix" has any problems associated with it, be it driveability or power or fuel consumption or reliability ... look out below.

The late model low mileage cars that haven't been damaged or modified make sense to fix and resell. The others ... maybe not.

Depending on how low the discounted fixed units go for, I can see getting a handful of them. Retire the 2000 and 2003, or at least have the replacements in storage when those 2 give out. I've got land, in the middle of nowhere, so I can drive around quite a bit and still not need to license it. Heck, just getting a spare fuel system would be likely worth it, if the job is 5k, and I could get a whole car for 8-10, just sayin.

 

[HBarlow]

It actually saddens me to acknowledge it but my '09 JSW is a likely candidate for the crusher. It has glossy white paint, excellent interior, recent battery and windshield, solid service history, new Michelin tires, no CELs, nothing wrong with the car, but it has just under 120k miles on the odometer and several minor door dings from inconsiderate citizens opening doors against it to get their fat asses out of their cars.

I was completely happy with it prior to the emissions issue and it would still make someone an excellent second car or work car. But the probable cost and complexity of making it compliant will likely shift the economic equation in favor of the crusher.

Sad end to a good car. It has been completely reliable and dependable for the four years and 60k miles I've owned it.

 

[KERMA]

I was completely happy with it prior to the emissions issue and it would still make someone an excellent second car or work car. But the probable cost and complexity of making it compliant will likely shift the economic equation in favor of the crusher.

Sad end to a good car. It has been completely reliable and dependable for the four years and 60k miles I've owned it.

Why does it have to be the end? this is what boggles my mind.

Just let them fix the friggin thing and then you can keep it!!!!!!

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Why does it have to be the end? this is what boggles my mind.

Just let them fix the friggin thing and then you can keep it!!!!!!

Some dealerships can't even get an oil change right. On two occasions... I've had to add almost a full quart of oil after getting my car serviced.

 

[HBarlow]

Why does it have to be the end? this is what boggles my mind.

Just let them fix the friggin thing and then you can keep it!!!!!!

That's a fair question. It didn't HAVE to end but I chose to end it because I would have had to be stupid to turn down the overly generous buy back offer. VW's dilemma was my good fortune.

My '09 was due for the 120k timing belt/water pump replacement and another DSG service and many here in the forum have reported failure of the DPF/CAT at mileage similar to mine so the VW was going to cost me some money.

It's a decision I made but I'm feeling a little guilty about my choice. It seems a little like taking a good and faithful dog to the dog shelter for probably euthanasia after being a good dog for four years.

 

[derekmw]

That's a fair question. It didn't HAVE to end but I chose to end it because I would have had to be stupid to turn down the overly generous buy back offer. VW's dilemma was my good fortune.

My '09 was due for the 120k timing belt/water pump replacement and another DSG service and many here in the forum have reported failure of the DPF/CAT at mileage similar to mine so the VW was going to cost me some money.

It's a decision I made but I'm feeling a little guilty about my choice. It seems a little like taking a good and faithful dog to the dog shelter for probably euthanasia after being a good dog for four years.

Yeah, we find ourselves in the same situation. We just by chance bought the A3 TDI 3 weeks before this whole scandal broke news. We got the car for $13k. Although we put a lot of miles on it, we're getting a buyback of $22k. Who would not take that. Drove it for over a year for free and getting a HUGE chunk of cash.

 

[nozel]

Why does it have to be the end? this is what boggles my mind.

Just let them fix the friggin thing and then you can keep it!!!!!!

I doubt there will be a fix if all are returned for free cash.
VW won't submit a fix for approval and CARB/EPA will likely road-block the repair for Gen1 in any case.

Now, I tip my hat to your hard learned knowledge of the workings of our ECU"S and wish you worked with VW to generate a workable fix for the Gen1's...

 

[GoFaster]

"Fix" and "buyback" are not exclusive.

Just because VW buys back a car, doesn't mean it won't be fixed and re-sold!

If everyone opts for the buyback, VW is still going to attempt to fix and re-sell as many as they can.

 

[HBarlow]

I thought it was understood by all ever since this fiasco began that VW will attempt to modify and resell as many buy backs as possible.

Why would VWAG crush tens of millions of dollars worth of good used cars that could be sold with a few hundred dollars worth of labor and equipment? Fixing and returning the cars to service would reduce their losses very significantly.

Thousands of buy back TDIs represent millions in used car sales, service department revenue, and parts department income. After a grim year VW dealers need profit badly.

 

[ecupip]

My guess is they won't have much to do with remarketing 13 and older TDI's or ones above 40K miles.

 

[autdi]

My guess is they won't have much to do with remarketing 13 and older TDI's or ones above 40K miles.

There is a lack of cheap cars in the market. High MPG cars <10k are hard to find. Recall every dollar they make on the fixed cars over the cost of the fix removes some of the pain of the buyback.

If the fix costs $3k to perform, and buy a warranty for $1k, sell the car for $7k, it's a spot in the market that lacks decent cars. Sure they only get 3k for the car, but it's 3k they wouldn't otherwise have, and with say 200k cars, they will be paying to crush them anyway, so selling them at $0 profit is actually better than crushing them.

 

[atomicfront]

There is a lack of cheap cars in the market. High MPG cars <10k are hard to find. Recall every dollar they make on the fixed cars over the cost of the fix removes some of the pain of the buyback.

If the fix costs $3k to perform, and buy a warranty for $1k, sell the car for $7k, it's a spot in the market that lacks decent cars. Sure they only get 3k for the car, but it's 3k they wouldn't otherwise have, and with say 200k cars, they will be paying to crush them anyway, so selling them at $0 profit is actually better than crushing them.

A 2013 in good shape should net them more than 7K. Our 2013 Wagon has 29k miles on it is in perfect shape has navigation, key less entry, and moonroof. I am sure they could at least 12k for it no problem.

 

[autdi]

A 2013 in good shape should net them more than 7K. Our 2013 Wagon has 29k miles on it is in perfect shape has navigation, key less entry, and moonroof. I am sure they could at least 12k for it no problem.

That's true in normal economics. In this case though, your car, and 100 more just like it exist. Oversupply drives the price down, so I'm hopeful that due to a glut of repaired models, the average price will drop.

 

[Philpug]

If they can fix the cars and get them approved by the EPA/Carb, why shouldn't they? That will help everyone. I think it is a good thing.