Snap-on Scanner (new software) perform Brake Bleed for 2002 TDI?

Gruni14

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Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Madison
TDI
2002 Jetta
Gents. This question is really for someone familiar with Snap-on scanners, and/or bleeding brakes on an 02 Jetta. I don't have VagCom software, but DO have a Solus scanner with software, v16.2. My scanner's software won't allow me to perform brake bleeding on my 02.

Question: Will a Snap-on scanner with software 19.2 or higher bleed a Jetta mk4 '02 ABS brakes?

The v19.2 Snap On Application Guide (and v20.4 guide) says these versions of SO software *can* bleed 2003 and higher Jetta brakes. But it doesn't include 2002's on that list, for some reason. Is there any difference between 02 and 03 ABS systems? I haven't looked to see if I can 'spoof' my 02 as an 03 in the Snap-on software (I'll do that). I know I have done that with some Jeeps. But 03 Jetta bleed was added sometime after v16.

I need to bleed out my 02's ABS (ran er dry). This might be worth me upgrading to a newer version software (and for other vehicles I have/work on too). BTW, just curious what it would cost to get set up with a VacCom software setup that will allow me to bleed brakes? I don't drive my Jetta all that much anymore, so I'd rather upgrade my Solus (sell it and buy a newer ..ebay unit).

Or is there another device/setup or secret method that would allow me to bleed air out of the 02 Jetta abs with reasonable cost?

Thanks. I appreciate your consideration and input.
 
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Mongler98

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Northern MD (HAGERBUSH)
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98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress)
no difference. same system
no need to cycle the system if your just bleeding. you will flush the entire system by just flushing normally. its only when you get air in the system that you need to cycle the pump.

a bottle and about 3 feet of clear line is all you need to bleed your system solo. as long as there is long enough line and you can see the line as you pump and its going uphill. thats it. DONE.
Besides. if you WANT to cycle the ABS, do a flush, then go drive in the rain and slam the brakes and activate the ABS for about 1 second. DONE
now do another flush. that WILL cycle the pump and push the old fluid back into the reservoir but its basically unnecessary ad when you flush normally you get like 99.~~% of the fluid in the pump anyways.
 

Gruni14

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Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Madison
TDI
2002 Jetta
Thanks! Maybe I'll give that a try (engage the abs the 'old fashioned way'). I had considered that, but no rain in quite a while here. And I need to replace an ABS sensor -- which I have, just need to get it done. But won't it need to cycle each of the valves to get the air out? I thought I read bleeding the air out of the Jetta ABS was a rather involved and detailed process? Anyway, I definitely have air in the system due to a previously resolved/replaced caliper leak. Have bled a lot.

I'm going to hook up my SO scanner this wk and see if I can bypass the 'auto-recognize' and attempt to talk to it as an '03. I wonder if SO goofed with their documentation and the new software will bleed any MK4?? That might give me a good excuse to upgrade to the 2021 software. Generally speaking SO is pretty good about when they add a new feature ...going way back retroactively -- sometimes going 12 or more model years back, which is kind of amazing. But maybe they're getting stingy in this budget-conscious era.
 
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Gruni14

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Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Madison
TDI
2002 Jetta
Just an update guys, I finally got around to 'testing' the Snap-On scanner on my Jetta. As I suspected, I WAS able to talk to my 2002 TDI as an 04 (in the software), by skipping the 'auto detect' and manually entering it as an '04. Was able to read data, various modules, and perform some 'write' features that I tested (I didn't test EVERYTHING). The software on this scanner covers up to 2016 and Snap-on added the VW brake bleed for 03's and up, like 2-3 yrs ago (according to their capabilities list). 2002's like mine are not on their list (for brake bleeding). Sooooo... if the gravel roads don't do the trick on my brake air, maybe that gives a reason to update to a newer software version (besides some other newer features)to get the air out ....assuming the brake bleed function in 04 software does indeed work on an 02 (which I suspect it will -- but no guarantee). I've noticed that on other older vehicles if you manually entered them in as a slightly different year it would still talk to said vehicle and it's modules just fine. Handy thing to know sometimes.

So there you have it.
 
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Nuje

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Island near Vancouver
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2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2003; 2016 A3 e-tron
Given that the ABS bleed procedure is a multi-step process within VCDS, I'm not sure @gmenounos's kw1281test tool will work.
The VCDS interface proceeds through a number of steps, done via the BASIC SETTINGS sub-menu of the ABS module.
*(EDIT: Pressure bleeder is required for this process - needs to be set at 1bar / 15psi)*
- stomp / hold brake pedal (ABS pump pumps for ~10sec. then stops)
- then open FL and FR bleeder screws
- then pump brake pedal 10x
- then close bleeder screws
- then stomp / hold brake pedal....
- etc. (for a few rounds)

Not sure how that would work on a command line interface.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Dec 11, 2001
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outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The Snap On tool sucks compared to VCDS (I have one). But I suppose I am spoiled since we also use a lot of the factory type scan tools here, so nothing really points out how bad something is unless you have the real deal to compare it with.

VCDS is incredibly inexpensive for what it can do, and how well and easy it can do it. Literally no other manufacturer has something like it available. But that is the downside, it only works on VAG products (it will however also work on the generic OBD 2 stuff of any car that uses a protocol that VAG uses for communications.... which now is all of them since they all have gone to the Bosch designed CAN setup).

Regarding your 2002, that was a year where there could have been two different systems in use. Depending on if your car has ESP or not. VCDS wouldn't care either way, though, as it would ID it and display it in the top right corner and decipher what it needs regarding service bleeding.

I find quite often that running through the Basic Settings service bleed and through the Output Tests will improve the brake pedal feel on cars that rarely ever get the ABS/ESP to go active. I do that on customers' cars if I feel the need, and of course I do it as normal PM when brake fluid gets flushed.
 

gmenounos

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Jun 26, 2003
Location
Watertown, MA, USA
TDI
'99.5 Golf GLS, '01 Jetta GLX Wagon (TDI conversion)
Given that the ABS bleed procedure is a multi-step process within VCDS, I'm not sure @gmenounos's kw1281test tool will work.
The VCDS interface proceeds through a number of steps, done via the BASIC SETTINGS sub-menu of the ABS module.
- stomp / hold brake pedal (ABS pump pumps for ~10sec. then stops)
- then open FL and FR bleeder screws
- then pump brake pedal 10x
- then close bleeder screws
- then stomp / hold brake pedal....
- etc. (for a few rounds)

Not sure how that would work on a command line interface.
Even though it's a command line tool, it can still go through all the basic setting and output tests. It probably doesn't display all the help messages telling you what to do at each step, but I can add them. So far I've only added help messages for cluster output tests but I can add messages for ABS easily enough.
 

Gruni14

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Location
Madison
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2002 Jetta
Well, ok thanks for that info. There are other reasons I might want to upgrade the S/O scanner. It's a pretty good all-around tool for a variety of makes.
BUT ....what are the costs for each of those software packages you mentioned: kw128's and VCDS?

I don't drive the 'ole Jetta like I used to, so I'm a little out of the software costs these days. Just to restate, in case it got lost above, The reservoir in my car definitely ran dry (not intentionally, but due to a line issue) so there's definitely air in the ABS from what I asertain ...even after a good, solid bleeding (with a bleeding machine), so it's well bled out. I will try to kick in the ABS module one of these days, when I drive it next, hopefully that'll help, but I suspect a full 'bleed' might be needed.

So what are the out-the-door software costs of the pkg's if you don't mind me asking? I did look at the VCDS site a couple wks ago but I didn't see any pricing, then there was the cable. What's the ramp-up time? Thx!
 

gmenounos

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'99.5 Golf GLS, '01 Jetta GLX Wagon (TDI conversion)
kw1281test is free. You just need a compatible cable (around $20). Definitely harder to use than VCDS and only works on MKIV cars. Does most of what VCDS can do with MKIVs and has other features like retrieving the SKC from the cluster, writing to the CCM EEPROM (like VDS-Pro) and runs on both Windows and macOS (but only certain cables work on Macs).
 

Gruni14

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Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Madison
TDI
2002 Jetta
Hmmm.... looks like a little ramp-up learning time but... Might be worth a shot if all i need to do is bleed the brakes out. Looks like this is the cable for Windows??:
Looks like this is the same, right? (free shipping): https://www.ebay.com/itm/384399665506

One question about the proceedure (in red/bold below):

- stomp / hold brake pedal (ABS pump pumps for ~10sec. then stops)
- then open FL and FR bleeder screws
- then pump brake pedal 10x You mean pump-close/pump-close the bleeder (repeat 10x) to move fluid (therefore air) out of the ABS?
- then close bleeder screws
- then stomp / hold brake pedal....
- etc. (for a few rounds)


My bleeder system is pressure/vacuum, so is there any special 'magic' on the pump 10x proceedure? Maybe I'm overthinking it. I've bled out ABS on other vehicles, just not VW's.

Thx guys, appreciate your help! Sorry for the annoying questions.
 
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Nuje

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Island near Vancouver
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2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2003; 2016 A3 e-tron
Oops! Forgot the (VERY) important step of requiring a pressure bleeder - on the Mk4, I believe it needs to be at 1bar (~15psi) for the duration of the process.
 

Gruni14

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Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Madison
TDI
2002 Jetta
Thanks.
Ok, so let me get this straight:

1) Hook up pressure bleeder to M/C as per normal. I'm assuming a guy should have hoses with fluid in them connecting the bleeder screws to a nearly empty can of fluid (so I don't 'suck' air back into the caliper during the 10x pump process) ??
2) Activate ABS bleed procedure via software
3) After ABS pumps starts operating, Stomp and hold pedal till pump shuts off and solenoids stop cycling (or is the stomp and hold before activating the abs pump)? What's the purpose of the Stomp? Most abs just want pedal pressure..
4) Let up on pedal (or is it 'maintain' pedal pressure throughout the process??)
5) Turn on (engage) pressure bleed machine (mine's electric, push).
6) Open Front bleeders (have air-locks bottles or catch-cans with fluid in hose (to prevent air from 'sucking' back into the caliper)
7) Fluid will flow
8) While fluid is flowing ....Pump pedal 10x (slow I assume, or hard?) [Or is it Pump10x with the bleeders closed?)
9) Close bleeders
10) Bleed Rear brakes
11) Repeat per necessary

Please edit if I got something incorrect above. Is there a detailed write-up saved somewhere on this forum? I did a search and didn't find one.

Thanks guys!
 
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Nuje

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3) After you start the ABS procedure, the VCDS window gives you instructions.
- PRESS AND HOLD BRAKE PEDAL (abs pump starts cranking once you've done this; continue to hold while it spins away); once it stops, you click NEXT (or it might just automatically go to next screen)
- "OPEN FR and FL BLEED SCREWS"
- etc.
Instructions do not indicate how hard or how fast to pump the pedal. VCDS provides the step-by-step.
 

Gruni14

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Dec 23, 2007
Location
Madison
TDI
2002 Jetta
Hmmm... can't bleed brakes with that, huh? Did anyone chime in the out-the-door cost of VCDS? Is there a low-level pkg cheaper?

Well, that kind of takes me back to the beginning: updating the Snap-on scanner. No ramp-up time. Good for 98% of daily shop needs. Of course it's not a mfgr-specific tool, and won't be writing specific software -- but rarely need that for my use. I just haven't upgraded my tool's software in a while is my problem. Maybe its time. A number of new features have been added, incl brake bleed for MKIVs. (After I try the gravel road ABS engage process first! ha ha)
 
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Gruni14

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Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Madison
TDI
2002 Jetta
Ok guys, update on the air in ABS situation:
I changed the faulty ABS sensor, then went and did as a few have suggested: Take er out and activate the ABS. I got it up to speed and stomped the brakes, with two wheels on the gravel (edge of the road) and activated the ABS. Did the Driver's side. Then repeated again both sides. After the 2nd stomping, the brakes went from "terrible" (like pedal-all-the-way-to-the-floor freekin' terrible) to MUCH MUCH better.

Then: Went home and bled each caliper with a vacuum bleeding machine. I did not use the pressure side, no pressure on the reservoir -- just vacuum on the bleeder and made darn sure the reservoir didn't run 'dry'. What I normally do is put a drop of gear lube on each bleeder's threads to form a good seal before loosening and applying vacuum. That works great and keeps the threads lubed up too. As each caliper was bleeding out, I applied the brakes kind of hard (but not so fast too blow the hose off the bleeder screw). Then let the pedal up slowly. Just did it a couple times, again, made sure there was plenty of juice in the M/C reservoir. Did the same for each of the rear calipers. Got a ton of air out of the R.R caliper.

The result is the brakes are very firm and I don't think they've ever been better! Seriously, I don't think they've ever been this good. Went from having to pump the pedal 'up' to get brakes, to perfectly firm. Night and day difference.

So, hey, Thanks a BUNCH guys! I've always used a scan tool to bleed the ABS, but this seemed to work just as well. Great suggestion. As always, thanks for your help.

Cheers!
 
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