Smoking all the time

[02beater_auto]

Hi,

I get exhaust smoke at idle at startup but it appears to be much more so when cruising even after many hours. The intercooler only produced a quarter sized area of oil max from the drain plug I installed.

The big thing is that the smoke appears to be blue or white....synonymous with head gasket or oil burning (at least in the gasser world with some exceptions).
I find it hard to tell what color it is and my nose is not great at telling me whether or not this is the smell of diesel burning or oil burning. I do believe it smells like diesel burning. There is no smell of burning coolant from the exhaust.

Does diesel burning through the exhaust *always* have to be black? I would think not. I have noticed on gassers that there always exceptions to color indication. For example, burning oil can be blue with a white tinge and valve stem seal issues can appear as white smoke.

What are some easier things to check before I start pulling my hair out on this?

Anything that I should start off with by checking VCDS for example?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Andyinchville1]

HI,

Lots of things can cause excessive smoking.

Was the car OK before then gradually started smoking or was it more or less more suddenly ?

Are any fluids being used in abnormal amounts (example , oil / antifreeze).

What kinds of MPGs are you getting?

How many miles on the engine ?

Boost leaks ? Engine up to correct operating temp (no stuck thermostats) ?

If injection pump and / or injectors are overly worn that could cause smoking .... (or it could be a good excuse to start modding!).

Maybe some more info will help make a more informed diagnosis and others can chine in as well

Andrew

 

[02beater_auto]

HI,

Lots of things can cause excessive smoking.

Was the car OK before then gradually started smoking or was it more or less more suddenly ?

Are any fluids being used in abnormal amounts (example , oil / antifreeze).

What kinds of MPGs are you getting?

How many miles on the engine ?

Boost leaks ? Engine up to correct operating temp (no stuck thermostats) ?

If injection pump and / or injectors are overly worn that could cause smoking .... (or it could be a good excuse to start modding!).

Maybe some more info will help make a more informed diagnosis and others can chine in as well

Andrew

...and just like that, things are going downhill quick. It's not in full limp mode but boost feels really down. It is smoking worse.

I would say that oil is going down on the dipstick quicker than I'd like like 1/16 the dipstick in 1k miles maybe but I am using a thinner oil than most recommend here which is Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic

....still meets VW specs and know of others using this oil with the ALH and many more miles than me.

No coolant loss.

45-48 mpg

Engine hits operating temps for sure.

Previous owner swapped to a used 10mm IP due to not being able to find an 11mm but it was hammer modded. IP timing looks great, IQ is between 3.8 and 4.0, injectors look great in VCDS.

About 175 k miles

Haven't checked for boost leaks but the engine sounds funny on VCDS group 13.....sucking sounding noise that I can't find when the VNT actuator goes from 99.6% to 0% and the arm moves completely. Not sure if this is normal.

Here is a suspicious point to me.....previous owner swapped turbo out due to no boost at all, swapped out the turbo with a Stigan VNT15 and then found out that the problem was due to an impacted catalytic converter. Cat was hollowed as a test and the no boost problem went away. I still have the original turbo but I know from experience what a PITA that job is especially on an auto with the EGR cooler/EGR/ASV all needing to be there. Before assuming it's the aftermarket turbo and putting the old one back on want to be sure!! IP and turbo were swapped at at around the same time along with hollowed cat as test along with lighter oil. All of the above were done at about the same time which makes diagnosis a little harder. Previous owner was just so happy to get boost back and failed to notice the smoke screen when it started but I can't do anything about that. It seems like it all happened at around the same time.

Just pulled the intercooler drain plug again and not one drop of oil.

Thanks.

 

[Andyinchville1]

Hmmmm

175K is not (in my opinion alot of miles (I didn't have issues with the IP unil about 300K BUT I drive mostly highway miles so more "normal" driving may put more hours on the pump in a shorter amount of time causing wear and it's relater issues (My 94 7.3 IDI used to smoke only at startup at 285K but now at 315K miles the smoking is more noticeable and prolonged .... My guess is stuff (injection pump / injectors are wearing out)

On my Jetta It never really smoked (except when pushing it) but when my injection pump wore it it more or less gave up the ghost all at once (needing a tow).

On the other hand , on my big truck (mechanical DT466) the turbo seal gave way a bit causing smoke out the exhaust (eventually and fairly quickly , it started dripping oil out the exhaust (that is a fairly extreme case and I'm glad it didn't decide to put oil into the intake side and possibly cause a run away).

If I were in your situation, I would be inclined to pull off some turbo piping and see if any oil is making it out the exhaust side ( I say that since you have no oil in the intercooler and appears there may have been turbo issues in the past .... maybe the replacement turbo is not 100%).

If the turbo and engine temps are OK I would almost hate to say it I would be inclined to think injection pump and or injectors since you have 175K (do you know it is 175K highway miles or more "normal" driving .... if more "normal" maybe it is just wear on those ....

If $$ are tight I would do the injectors first BEFORE the pump since it's cheaper and see if that takes care of things (when my situation happened I bit the bullet and go the pump AND injectors whether or not the injectors really needed replacing).

Hope this helps.

Andrew

 

[DivineChaos]

...and just like that, things are going downhill quick. It's not in full limp mode but boost feels really down. It is smoking worse.

I would say that oil is going down on the dipstick quicker than I'd like like 1/16 the dipstick in 1k miles maybe but I am using a thinner oil than most recommend here which is Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic

....still meets VW specs and know of others using this oil with the ALH and many more miles than me.

No coolant loss.

45-48 mpg

Engine hits operating temps for sure.

Previous owner swapped to a used 10mm IP due to not being able to find an 11mm but it was hammer modded. IP timing looks great, IQ is between 3.8 and 4.0, injectors look great in VCDS.

About 175 k miles

Haven't checked for boost leaks but the engine sounds funny on VCDS group 13.....sucking sounding noise that I can't find when the VNT actuator goes from 99.6% to 0% and the arm moves completely. Not sure if this is normal.

Here is a suspicious point to me.....previous owner swapped turbo out due to no boost at all, swapped out the turbo with a Stigan VNT15 and then found out that the problem was due to an impacted catalytic converter. Cat was hollowed as a test and the no boost problem went away. I still have the original turbo but I know from experience what a PITA that job is especially on an auto with the EGR cooler/EGR/ASV all needing to be there. Before assuming it's the aftermarket turbo and putting the old one back on want to be sure!! IP and turbo were swapped at at around the same time along with hollowed cat as test along with lighter oil. All of the above were done at about the same time which makes diagnosis a little harder. Previous owner was just so happy to get boost back and failed to notice the smoke screen when it started but I can't do anything about that. It seems like it all happened at around the same time.

Just pulled the intercooler drain plug again and not one drop of oil.

Thanks.

Turbo is shot. Pull the downpipe and charge pipe off the turbo. Is it oily? Excessive play in the shaft?

 

[DivineChaos]

White smoke, unburnt fuel. Blue is oil you can smell this. White can also be coolant but exhaust is sweet and very moist. Black is scorched unburnt fuel, aka soot. My guess is turbo is pushing oil out exhaust. Lots of oil.

 

[Mongler98]

White smoke, unburnt fuel. Blue is oil you can smell this. White can also be coolant but exhaust is sweet and very moist. Black is scorched unburnt fuel, aka soot. My guess is turbo is pushing oil out exhaust. Lots of oil.

100% with this diagnoses
I would not drive it or even start it with the boost pipe attached.
Turbo replacment is in your immediate future

 

[02beater_auto]

I will replace the turbo and report back. Thanks.

 

[BobnOH]

A good turbo is a bit expensive, as is an IP, I would rule out everything else first. If it has suddenly started using oil, decent chance it's the turbo.
VW TDI Search Engine

 

[02beater_auto]

A good turbo is a bit expensive, as is an IP, I would rule out everything else first. If it has suddenly started using oil, decent chance it's the turbo.
VW TDI Search Engine

I am going to bolt the old turbo back on since replacement was the result of misdiagnosis in the first place. I can afford a new turbo, it just isn't worth it to me given the 01M in this vehicle that will like never see a manual transmission.

 

[02beater_auto]

Could this crack coming right off of the turbo to the EGR cooler bellows have caused the turbo to go bad possibly or result in other symptoms? I now remember elusive smoke appearing across the headlights at night right after I did this job.

Also, now that I think about it, is it somehow possible that the smoke from the tailpipe could be a result of the split and I don't have to change the turbo at all??

I'd still need another cooler but would rather replace that than the turbo!

Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[02beater_auto]

I just replaced the turbo with a remanned ID Parts VNT-15 along with an EGR cooler delete and unfortunately it is still smoking from the tailpipe. No sweet smell of coolant that is for sure.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,

 

[tgray]

If the pipe is full of oil it takes a while to burn it out. Did you drive far after the new turbo? Burning engine oil is a dangerous thing in these engines if that is what it is. I had one that would light up and start a run away just idling in the drive. It pulls in the oily exhaust smoke back into the egr and adds more fuel to the fire.

 

[Tdijarhead]

If you just replaced a blown turbo and you have cleaned out all the oil from your boost pipes, there is still oil in your exhaust system. It will take about a ten mile drive to burn it all out. Along the way you will lay down the most incredible mosquito fog imaginable. Your neighbors will love you for it...or not.

 

[02beater_auto]

Thanks guys, I just drove it 2 miles round trip. It doesn't seem to smoke as bad as the last turbo did though. The EGR has been bypassed along with the cooler but I did keep the ASV since this is an auto. I am skeptical that this is going to get better but will let you know. Never much oil at all at the bottom of the drain screw that I installed for the intercooler either. Oh, and I didn't clean out the old pipes but they never seemed exceptionally oily either.

 

[Tdijarhead]

I doesn’t sound to me like your old turbo failed. A failed turbo dumps a lot of oil into the boost hoses and intercooler. It sounds more like a boost leak of some kind or that 10mm pump is not fueling your engine correctly. I would look first for a boost leak. Are you still getting a code(s) of any kind?

I’m a little skeptical of running 5-30 oil in this engine also.

 

[02beater_auto]

I doesn’t sound to me like your old turbo failed. A failed turbo dumps a lot of oil into the boost hoses and intercooler. It sounds more like a boost leak of some kind or that 10mm pump is not fueling your engine correctly. I would look first for a boost leak. Are you still getting a code(s) of any kind?

I’m a little skeptical of running 5-30 oil in this engine also.

I am getting an excessive egr Flow code after getting rid of the cooler but that is it. 5w-30 is a bit light but that is what it has always ran. I also know of someone running this very oil with almost double the miles who doesn't smoke at all.

I guess I can do a BLT like you suggested as well.

 

[tgray]

why would you run 5w-30? The proper recommended oil spec has served many fine for millions of tested and proven miles on this forum.

 

[Tdijarhead]

I am getting an excessive egr Flow code after getting rid of the cooler but that is it. 5w-30 is a bit light but that is what it has always ran. I also know of someone running this very oil with almost double the miles who doesn't smoke at all.

I guess I can do a BLT like you suggested as well.

What. Is that exact code you’re getting?

 

[02beater_auto]

why would you run 5w-30? The proper recommended oil spec has served many fine for millions of tested and proven miles on this forum.

Hey, I like to avoid talking about my oil choice as it is deductive and ends with arguments as I am not one of the millions. I just enjoy the lower cSt at 100 degrees C which results in better fuel economy. That is often a hot topic which usually ends in someone telling me that I am crazy to try and gain an alleged 1/10th of a mpg or whatever at the expense of cam wear or whatever the flavor of the day is. I am sure my auto will be gone before there is any noticeable wear, lol.

With that said, I am not opposed to running 5w 40 Diesel oil if it helps the smoke go away. No problem.

 

[02beater_auto]

What. Is that exact code you’re getting?

Hi, I am getting this and only this after deleting the EGR cooler. Prior to this no codes. It spit out a 16786 with my Vag401. I haven't pulled out VCDS out to take a look at it but I could with a similar result I am sure.

16786/P0402/001026 - Ross-Tech Wiki

wiki.ross-tech.com

 

[02beater_auto]

I just wanted to give a quick update. After driving it 130 miles, the smoke has gone down by about 85%. There is a little bit of white smoke but you have to be staring at the tailpipe which most normal people don't usually do.

What do you say?

 

[Tdijarhead]

Is the white smoke on startup or while driving or both? If the old turbo did in fact dump oil into the boost pipes and then that would have made its way to the exhaust, maybe you have it mostly burned out.

 

[02beater_auto]

Is the white smoke on startup or while driving or both? If the old turbo did in fact dump oil into the boost pipes and then that would have made its way to the exhaust, maybe you have it mostly burned out.

Well it is on startup and after driving long periods. Doesn't seem to do it when revved actually. No visible plumes of smoke behind me either. I had someone rev it while it was sitting and no smoke....just idle.

Maybe it did work it's way out mostly. Thanks.

 

[Tdijarhead]

I would keep a close eye on your oil level to make sure it’s not going down. If the oil level does go down then you have something going on with your new (old) turbo or some kind of oil leak somewhere.

Some white smoke on first startup of the day is normal.

 

[02beater_auto]

Thanks for the reminder. Great idea! I actually went with an IDParts reman this time around.

 

[02beater_auto]

I am going to go with the 5w-40 version of my preferred oil now....

Amazon.com: Castrol Edge 5W-40 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 Quart Jug : Automotive

Buy Castrol Edge 5W-40 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 Quart Jug: Motor Oils - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

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