slow, dumb, cheap compound setup!

[[486]]

So, back on this, still smokes at 25:1 smokemaps at low RPM, still working on that slowly. Got a 3" maf housing in it and the proper programming changes for something nutty like 3000 mg/str of measured airflow.

Now, back to the turbos, my gauges read 40-50 PSI of EMP and 24 PSI IMP. Bad juju.

I've got a few ideas rattling around in my head,
First idea, a K03-005, it's laying around, in fact I've got three laying around. All dimensions are slightly larger than a gt1749VC, so I think it should flow more through the exhaust side. Would eliminate the VNT, though.
Second idea, big wastegate on the 1749v. Got a spare manifold to set it up on.
Third idea, get a chinese CHRA from a 1749vc and do the needed machine work to the spare 1749v manifold laying about. Don't know if the VC uses a different VNT mech with taller vanes for more flow, though. Then get the thing properly balanced, because the chinese probably never did.

I... don't know which way to proceed.
Leaning toward option C.

 

[Markus L]

VNT mech of VC is like in GTB-series turbos. Vanes might be higher. In my setup GTB1752V's exhaust side (same as VC) chocked in ~4000 rpm with 30 PSI. Fueling wasn't maxed but it was enough for ~240 bhp.

With external wastegate and VNT it could be hard to make function right with EDC15.

 

[[486]]

VNT mech of VC is like in GTB-series turbos. Vanes might be higher. In my setup GTB1752V's exhaust side (same as VC) chocked in ~4000 rpm with 30 PSI. Fueling wasn't maxed but it was enough for ~240 bhp.

With external wastegate and VNT it could be hard to make function right with EDC15.

I'd think the vanes would be taller, being that the tip height was something like 2mm wider.
Never know, though.

Another idea would be to fix the vanes in one position and mill out slots in the vane housing such that it'd be as though the vanes were taller.
Then I'd need the wastegate for sure.

Fixed vanes would let me stuff in the CHRA from anything with minimal hassle from the vanes., like maybe a td04-09B outta a volvo. The 1749V's attached exhaust manifold looks to be a very free flowing unit. Might not clear the block, though.

 

[[486]]

So I took the 1749v manifold and bored a nice big 1.5" hole where the EGR port was.
Gonna try my hand at using the tig with silicon bronze rod tomorrow to join some stainless pipe to it.

The idea is going to be to use an external wastegate to bypass the 1749V's turbine. Got an external wastegate and modified it a bit (cut some vent passages into the stem guide so that the backpressure from the TD04 doesn't cook the diaphragm blowing exhaust past the valve guide in there).

After some testing it cracks open at about 40 PSI of pressure differential, and has something like a 2" diameter diaphragm, so it should open under diaphragm pressure of something like 6-7 PSI. Figure I'll hook up the diaphragm to the TD04's boost signal, as it makes around 7 PSI when really on it, see what it does. Might have to get more spring in it and hook it up to intake manifold pressure. Maybe with the TD04's pressure on the other side of the diaphragm acting against the opening? It'll get played with.

Any advice on an interstage wastegate to share?

Jon, you were running a BV43 HP in yours, that's a vane turbo I think, what kind of springs and pressure reference are you using?

 

[[486]]

Bored out the EGR port on a spare manifold big enough for a proper 38mm wastegate. Welded it in with 316 stainless rod and the tig in the first usable result I've gotten from the tig yet. Kinda glad I didn't take pictures, they may have been better than these and you'd be able to see how much the welds were just bits of broken off tungsten smooshed into the bead.

So, after I did this I got a GT1752 out of a saab 2.3 at the junkyard.
Wonder if I can use that turbine and compressor on my VNT center housing and machine out the turbine housing for the larger turbine.

Well, going to go off to get the datsun off the f350 so that I can drive the F350 while this is apart as I don't have a spare VNT center housing, even a blown up one, to see how deep I've gotta make the radiused bit in the cut on the turbine housing.

 

[[486]]

Lots of time with no updates.
Well, in the interim I've got the GT1752's rotating bits into a center housing to fit the VNT exhaust housing. Cut the 'gated 1752 turbine housing apart to grind a form tool to flycut the same radius profile in the turbine bore in the 1749's turbine housing.

Bored out the 1749v's exhaust housing and profiled it to fit, with a good 1/16" of clearance all around the turbine wheel. That seemed to be how much was in there on the 1752's stock turbine housing, so I rolled with it.

Then it got interesting with the VNT mechanism, the stock vane travel limit stop on the "open vanes" side was too small, the vanes would hit the turbine wheel when full open!, so I made a new stop pin with a .250" working diameter (stock is .19", thanks AndyBees) and that leaves enough clearance that I'm comfortable.

Getting close to putting it in, finally got some 1.5" mandrel bends and an expansion joint. A subaru came in with a dead catalyst, and it's part of the mandrel bent stainless tubular manifold. Whoo.

Oh, and the spring I added on the TD04's wastegate broke, so it is just putting along making 1 psi or so (don't ground the welding lead on the can and weld on the actuator rod, it grounds through the spring, haha) meaning that the 1749V's making the bulk of the 24 PSI I was running for the last day or two. Oops. Shaft play is still minimal so far though.

tl;dr, I'm not dead yet, the stupid volksmobile isn't either.

 

[turbovan+tdi]

Crap, more stuff to read. Very cool, only read page one so far.

 

[GOFAST]

read your topic, like how you try to make it low budged in the beginning.
going to follow this thread.

 

[GOFAST]

how is your new set up doing ?

 

[[486]]

how is your new set up doing ?

hm?
the 1752 hybrid sorta thing is still sitting on the shelf, still DDing it until it gets cold enough out that I get tired of not having heat

TD04 has a new spring on the wastegate and is making 6-7 PSI again.
Tore the aluminum exhaust off running over a truck tire on the freeway.
Welded the aluminum exhaust back together and put it back on.
Started dripping oil recently, so might have to actually look at it rather than just driving it.
Looking at the spare head I've got, a compression release brake is doable, and could even be a bolt-on affair.

ETA: Been working on a fox body ford with an HX40 a lot lately. Hope to drive that over the winter while I work on this.

 

[[486]]

ETA: Been working on a fox body ford with an HX40 a lot lately. Hope to drive that over the winter while I work on this.

To the point where I'm more or less done with this one, and will be driving it over the winter.

That means the VW's getting tore down for a bit of a refit again.

I've got te high pressure side figured out (gt1752 from a saab 93 LPT stuck in a VNT bearing housing and the gt1749V turbine housing machined to suit), a TD04HL-15t-5cm from a saab 93 HPT, and various volvo TD04 parts (a td04-12t-8.5cm, and an HL 7cm turbine housing)

The TD04HL-15t-5cm turbine caught something, but otherwise looks great after a little dremel work to remove any stress risers from the damaged area, so I was thinking I'd fit a cheapo 19t compressor wheel since it needs a balance anyways. Then toss on the 7cm turbine housing for a little less restriction at cruise than my current 6cm subaru housing. Maybe go with one of those 20t billet wheels that have been showing up lately, but that's more than twice the price of a cast 19t wheel for one extra mm of inducer diameter (the ones I see don't even have extended exducer tips).

So, I'm hoping for some info from those smarter than me on what I should do with the atmospheric turbo. That's all up in the air at this point, could go any way.

Alcaid, can you get a cast 20t wheel? If it would be a good direction to go, that is. I hear they came on dodge caliber SRT4s.

 

[[486]]

Looking at the maps, the MHI 19t map overlaps with the gt2052 map (nobody seems to have a 1752 map, but the 52 trim 2052 has the same compressor dimensions as mine) somewhat, and extends it off to the right and up well past the gt2052

I did the conversion on the MHI map myself, so it might be off. it was in cubic meters per second, I used 1.204 kg/cubic meter as the conversion because it says 20 degrees c up at the top

I'm moderately uneducated, it feels like it'd be a good matchup. But I'd really like a second opinion, as I don't really trust my knowledge here.

 

[Alcaid]

The SAAB GT1752S has a 52.0mm 55Trim comp wheel (52.0/38.6mm) so based on dimensions it should flow slightly more than the GT2052S.

I have a used, in good shape, 16T compressor wheel if interested, took it off a Volvo turbo when I converted it to 11-blade GTX style comp wheel with extended tips. It's yours if you cover the sending cost. I also have an extra 16T "GTX" billet comp wheel if the 16T flows enough for you, we'll find a bargain price

I don't buy cast wheels so only have supplier for billet wheels. No 19T or 20T in my shelf right now an no orders happening anytime soon so you would have to shop those on ebay.

 

[[486]]

The SAAB GT1752S has a 52.0mm 55Trim comp wheel (52.0/38.6mm) so based on dimensions it should flow slightly more than the GT2052S.

I have a used, in good shape, 16T compressor wheel if interested, took it off a Volvo turbo when I converted it to 11-blade GTX style comp wheel with extended tips. It's yours if you cover the sending cost. I also have an extra 16T "GTX" billet comp wheel if the 16T flows enough for you, we'll find a bargain price

I don't buy cast wheels so only have supplier for billet wheels. No 19T or 20T in my shelf right now an no orders happening anytime soon so you would have to shop those on ebay.

I remember one dimension being slightly off, but didn't want to take the compressor cover off to measure. It's cold outside.

The 16t map overlaps the 2052 map a lot more than the 19t.
Going off my peak MAF readings with the current choked up setup I'm only moving something like 9 lb/min of air (1300 mg/stroke at 3k RPM) which is more or less in the middle of the map on my current 13t... The 19t has a lot more room to grow, I think while I'm cutting the cover and getting it balanced I should just go all the way once, and then if my motor's needs outgrow it I can just move onto a different frame size all together.

On reading the HP compressor map, would it still be accurate as it's getting (hot) compressed gas in, so maybe I just multiply the X-axis data by the difference in density?

I was really hoping to give you some money, with how helpful you've been. Maybe got a gt17 turbine wheel with the full diameter shaft? You've no doubt got the dimensions on the one I'm running, but I can always cut the turbine housing further. I'm kinda hesitant to use the necked down one that's currently in mine as when it lets go it takes the other turbo with it.

 

[[486]]

Tearing it down and before I got too far into it I remembered to stuff a decent camera in there and take a bunch of pics, so all the fancy "junk, radiator hose and pvc" charge piping is out and you'll notice missing nuts everywhere. Oh well.
Anyways, picdump time.

the tee is EMP on the odd leg and a water heater thermocouple for my pyro probe

the EMP tube breaks off every once in a while, so I reanneal it and pop it back in

almost fits like the car was designed for this kinda stupid

rotated the actuator can's heat shield a little bit because of where the downpipe is, chinese actuator anyways

lots of pics, lots of 1 star thread ratings? I know I vote all my own threads 1 star.

Lookit those ugly ports, mostly adding a comment between pics so the forum software doesn't mash them all together and make them hard to distinguish where one starts and the next ends

1749v may have ingested some poop, when I got the car the CCV hose was broken off, so it was eating unfiltered air.

TD04 hasn't eaten much poop, despite being PO'd by a ricer-type person

the thermo vacuum switch was from a previous experiment using the EGR cooler routed past the turbo to heat the coolant without pooping in the intake manifold, it worked sorta okay, but more turbos was more important to me. May incorporate a coolant loop into a muffler later on down the road.

more pics in a second, forum software's set up for only 10 pics per post for whatever dumb reason

 

[[486]]

Downpipe clearance was the only thing that kept me from bolting on the whole shebang in one day and driving home, took an extra day to cut and weld those bends tighter

had to make a special nut for that one in the crotch of the bend, just used 1/2" square stock tapped 3/8-16

Milled a slot in the plate for extra wastegate flapper clearance, prolly did nothing, but why not.

Aww yeah, the aluminum is from a volvo, the hoses from radiators (the far right one is from a '93 F350 7.3IDI, lower, real handy size and shape to it), and the PVC from fleet farm.

Cheap rattle can paint is enough of a gasket for most exhaust work when heavy castings are involved, the gaskets you can buy will just cause leaks rather than seal them

So, coming apart for the fresh turbos, got the VNT'd 1752s thing and a TD04HL-19T-7cm

ETA: lots more pics on the bottom of the previous page, in case you're clicking on just the last page and only seeing this one post up top.

 

[[486]]

Guess who youtube taught to TIG aluminum. This guy.

Whoo doggie that's some ugly ****!

Cut the tanks off a $100 chinese intercooler for this

Would have just stuck it in as is, but there wasn't much in the way for room

Should flow better than the stock ALH manifold.

TIG didn't have enough scoot, so I used it for the HF start, and used the buzz box for the 200+ amps of ass that it's got.

Here's the new ones that are going in. GT1752s and a TD04HL-19T

I'm actually much further along than this, but these pics are what's at hand and convenient

I've got it all piped, the wastegate and all. Downpipe is made, and fits, just gotta take some fresh pics some time.

But I can do that later. May as well pack this update with pics that I've got, cold outside after all.

Gotta get the TD04 balanced, and put all the piping in there. Should run soonish?

 

[[486]]

Got it mostly all in there and man oh man between the a/w ic and the wastegate there is no fuggin' room to get those intake bolts in. Took me four hours with my full set of 1/4 dr junk. I used a stubby bit socket on a swivel to get a couple, a ball hex on one, and a ball hex on a swivel on another. All done in a mirror holding a flash light in -10 degree unheated shop. Uphill both ways.
Anyways tried to get some pics, but there really ain't much of anywhere to stuff the camera and actually get a good shot of it all.
This one's with the camera stuffed underneath the A/C lines to get a better panoramic shot

Little different angle

Panning down to see the steering rack

This one's more from the firewall looking forward, can see a little of the intake bolts, probably have to reset that clamp and skooch the HP boost hose down some. For now I'm sure it'll hold up.

From the other side, stuffed down in the trans shift cables, heater hose up top, downpipe mostly, some junk beyond

Looking down in on the brake booster side again, little higher angle this time

From under, steering rack on bottom

other side of the downpipe, and more steering rack

From directly underneath,

really jammed in there

So, buncha pics of convoluted junk I'm wasting my life on.
I know you guys are capable of nitpicking anything to death and beyond, yet not a peep in here... Am I wasting my time with all the pics?

 

[FordGuy100]

No, I'm following. Not for my MKIV, but for my Explorer swap. I'm interested in the end results!

 

[andy2]

Is that external wastegate a new addition this time around ? Should be interesting to hear how controlling it goes.I see that you are using intake manifold pressure to open it.

I think my old 1.9 IDI compound setup used manifold boost to open the high pressure turbo's wastegate and then the low pressure between stage boost was used on the opposite side of the high pressure turbo's wastegate diaphragm to keep the high pressure turbo from slowing down as the load came on from the low pressure turbo.

QuickTD came up with the idea.I think I have it explained correctly or hope he'll chime in to correct.

 

[[486]]

Yup, it's fresh and new.
Interstage boost's on the top of the diaphragm, intake manifold on the bottom, got it loaded up with all the springs I could, should be good for 20-25 PSI with nothing atop the diaphragm, then pressure on top (as well as exhaust backpressure from the atmospheric turbine) will only bring that number up.

I'm hoping it makes the VNT tuning somewhat more idiot resistant, when it overboosts it just opens the interstage WG. The vanes on the HP turbine have limited travel (the travel stop pin was .200" diameter IIRC, mine's .250") so they won't open quite as wide as they did before. This is because the GT1752S' turbine would have hit the vanes otherwise. Not ideal, and would no doubt have been better solved by clipping the vanes back, but I couldn't figure a way of cutting them reliably and repeatably.
Figure it's just a somewhat variable volute wastegated turbo now.

The TD04's actuator is from a super hx-40 and is set way too high at 20 something psi, but it is all I had around that would fit. Got a K03-005 actuator from a passat, but it's too big to fit in there. Ah well, we'll see how it works.

ETA: Got the interstage reference hoses all patched together now, and the atmospheric inlet pipe in, just gotta clamp up the "td04 to stock plastic upper IC pipe" bits in there, push on the VNT actuator line, reattach the vac pump lines, sort the TD04 drain (I had some -10 push lock around here but I hid it from myself...) dump the oil back in and then it'll be fresh territory. Not planning on running water in the IC yet, it's winter, I don't need that kind of heat loss from the coolant.

Gonna do that tomorrow. The hx40/5.0 fox doesn't want to start and it's too cold for the laptop to let me reduce the warmup enrichment to the point that it doesn't immediately flood itself, the fuel rails' o-rings are pissing for whatever reason, I can't feel my toes atm... Good thing I don't have work tomorrow.

 

[GOFAST]

I know you guys are capable of nitpicking anything to death and beyond, yet not a peep in here... Am I wasting my time with all the pics?

no.
i read every post you place here.
I'm building a compound set up my self.
still in the learning proses.
so like to follow your topic.

 

[Rub87]

lol, That intake manifold, I can imagine the effort and meters of filling rod that you ppoured onto it

 

[turbovan+tdi]

No, except my dog couldn't probably do a better welding job on the intake,

 

[[486]]

Thanks for the replies. Good to see I'm not just talking to myself, I get a little disconcerted from time to time.

lol, That intake manifold, I can imagine the effort and meters of filling rod that you ppoured onto it

Eh, only about 1lb of 1/8" rod and about 3 40cf tanks of argon. Probably $10 worth of electric.

It's all together now apart from the td04 drain. Just need to find that damn -10 push lock hose.

 

[[486]]

Turns out I'd used the push lock on another project halfassed, so I three-quarter-assed that and scavenged enough line to get me on the road.

Hm, well it pegs both boost gauges now. EMP gauge was not working properly, might have broken off again, cold outside, I'll look when I hook up the downpipe to the tailpipe. Traction is... nonexistant, been DDing a foxbody for the winter with a welded rear diff, it doesn't hook up either but it sure grabs better than this...
Motor mounts are no bueno, gonna have to figure out something there, too. A/W IC is hitting the firewall on shutdown.

Guess I need to put together something better than the 20 psi IMP and 10 psi interstage gauges I've had on it, and start thinking about 4wd (or IDI swapping it and putting the engine in something else).

 

[turbovan+tdi]

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GOFAST]

how does it spool ?
can you make a film of your RPM meter perhaps full throttle in 4th gear ?

 

[mk1-83]

3 Gear spool up is,mine most important gear if it spools good in 3 it will go good as a daily

 

[[486]]

how does it spool ?
can you make a film of your RPM meter perhaps full throttle in 4th gear ?

Eh, 'bout the same as it did before. 3k rpm in third and the tires break loose
On the previous setup I had it requesting next to no boost below 2k RPM because the DMF was bottoming out its springs. Had set up the torque limiter to that end, and figured why move the air if there isn't the fuel. Might have to finish up the twin disc and dump it in... Got a 2.0 gas trans I've been thinking about sneaking a 2.70:1 ish ratio final drive into, but that isn't progressing too quick. Then there's the compression release brake I've got halfway done that will need me to do some lathe work on the camshaft (so it isn't likely to be implemented)... Lot of projects, trouble getting any one of them done.

I don't really get people saying stuff needs to spool early to be street driveable, you can get probably 60hp out of them completely N/A, plenty for putting around town, if you want more, just shift in the powerband.