Sill Smoking

Dian Cecht

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Location
Yellow Springs, Ohio, USA
TDI
2004 Golf mk4 BEW manual
I have a golf mk4 BEW 330000 miles

So I had some white smoke, limp mode and it looked like thick gooey oily substance on the dip stick. I tried stop leak in the oil and stop leak in the coolant (the appropriate type for each.) No help. And then increased smoke, especially worse when I tried to accelerate, so much that I was pulled over because there was so much smoke out the exhaust that it was hard for other drivers to see, and the officer thought maybe my car was on fire, and he made me tow it home (yes, appropriately).

I thought it must be the head gasket, so I cleaned out my garage and did my first timing belt and head gasket job. I think it all went well. The gasket though, it looked old, but looked intact, there wasn't an area that looked blown out. I didn't know really what to expect, being the first head gasket I've looked at before (except the new one I ordered). The turbo was broken, the spinner on the air side was broken off and loose in the casing. But I was eager to see that replacing the head gasket did anything, even if I didn't have a working turbo.

Drove it two miles and still same white smoke. Again, a lot of smoke. No change.

I had ordered a new turbine for the turbo, just got it installed, which was non-trivial. All the little parts of the VNT ring system were covered in carbon to the point it was all seized up. I took all those bits off and cleaned them well, so they were all moving well again when I reassembled, the turbine turned smoothly too. I couldn't find a video of someone disassembling and rebuilding the turbo I have in my BEW. Mine has a circlip (internal snap clip/c-clip) holding the turbine into the casing on the air side, and I couldn't tell the rotational position, but I guessed, and was off by a bit (the intercooler hose wouldn't reach, took it back off, adjusted the rotational position and it fit.

But still have white smoke. There is not much while I left it run idling for a while. I think some less when I drove it, but still a lot. The check oil light came on when I was test driving it, but I had put just about 1 gallon in it before the test drive, so I looked on the dip stick while it was running and there were wafts of smoke coming from the dip stick hole. No smoke or bubbles in the coolant reservoir.

The smoke does not seem to smell sweet, nor does it seem to have a strong diesel fuel smell, maybe smells a little burnt? Idk, I didn't think it has much of an odor.

I didn't replace the O-ring on the turbo, could that be my problem?

I've read bad injectors can cause white smoke. Possibility it's the injectors rather than the turbo?

Any other ideas? How I should diagnose?

Thank you all so much for any help!
 

CanadianALH

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd 2006 Jetta DSG (wifes)
Well there will be oil in the exhaust from the blown turbo so that will cause smoke. Second I had a turbo failure much like yours and drove it that caused metal to be pushed through the head because of the turbine shaving the turbo housing. Anyway long story short I needed a rebuild for my engine because of other complications. So I would suggest you take some logs and make sure the turbo is working properly and not burning oil still because if it is I would suggest a brand new turbo.
 

Dian Cecht

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Location
Yellow Springs, Ohio, USA
TDI
2004 Golf mk4 BEW manual
CanadianALH, thank you for you're reply!

With mine, the one spinner of the turbine broke off, I do think it was otherwise intact, I didn't notice that the fins were worn down or broken off, but I will look more closely when I'm back in the garage.

What do you mean take some logs? I've only got a basic OBDII reader.

When you suggest a new turbo, why do you think this would help? The exhaust manifold/turbo is a hunk of metal + the VNT ring and associated bits + the turbine, and it looks like the casing is intact, the VNT ring and bits are in place and moving properly now that they are cleaned and it has a new turbine that spins freely.

Thank you and anyone else for all your help and advice.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Your head gasket was fine. The smoke was caused by the turbo breaking and allowing oil to fill the intake and exhaust systems.

You will need to drive about 10 miles or so after fixing the turbo to clear the exhaust of oil. When this happened to me since I live in the country it wasn’t an issue with other drivers. You may need to do it at 2am in the morning or some other time when the roads are mostly clear.

If you put a cartridge in the turbo you’ll need to go through this again as all cartridges I’m aware of are chinese and chinese quality is off the charts...negatively.

Idparts, cascadegerman, metalmanparts all sell quality oem parts or known good parts and are trusted vendors, never buy critical car parts from amazon, eBay etc.
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,glutton for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB , added an 06 NB DSG
Listen to Tdijarhead I had two turbos snap the shaft where the exhaust turbine was sideways allowing oil into the exhaust .
It took a good 30 minutes of wide open throttle to clear out the oil in the exhaust , makes a very effective mosquito killer.
The center rotating pieces are normally not changeable unless you have very specialized balancing equipment.
It’s better to get a new turbo from one of the trusted vendors on here……or from the for sale forum.
Stay away from cheap eBay turbos that claim to be new…..they will destroy your engine.
 
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Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
For me that drive to clear the exhaust was actually quite a bit of fun. I had such a cloud of smoke behind me I couldn’t see the road past 10 feet or so. Of course blowing all that smoke is also what happened when the turbo broke so I stopped a couple of times just to check the oil level and make sure I wasn’t still blowing new oil into the exhaust system.
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,glutton for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB , added an 06 NB DSG
lol I too had fun driving it that way , my son was at college DeSales , he was worry at the EMT when he called me.
Packed up everything I could think of along with a spare turbo and drove out to his college.
Swapped everything out and did compression checks in the parking lot of where he was on call at the EMT building.
When we got it back together we went driving through all the rich people’s neighborhoods laying down a smoke trail…. lol we never went down the same street twice……. The looks we got as we drove by was priceless 🤣🤣🤣.
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
I needed about 30 minutes on the highway..."spirited" driving aka accelerating and decelerating to keep the EGTs up... before all the oil burned out. Did it late at night so as to not call attention to myself one way or the other.
 

Dian Cecht

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Location
Yellow Springs, Ohio, USA
TDI
2004 Golf mk4 BEW manual
Thanks for all the advice and stories! I'm kinda glad I did it on my country road late at night for the most part, but even today burning off the last of it, people are kinda crazy, wanting very much to get around me and away from me.

I did drive it at night last night for about 10 miles, then again today for about 20. The smoke cleared after it warmed up. It's about 10 F here in Ohio today.

Soooo, you guys are recommending I replace the entire turbo/exhaust manifold? Primarily to make sure it's quality and doesn't break again?

Then second... now the oil light is coming on when I'm driving, when I start to get it up to about 1800rpm. It's not on when I first start it up and just at idle. And a couple times it turned off when driving if I was at low revs.

I did check the oil a few times and it was in the good range on the dip, so it isn't losing oil any appreciable amount of oil, at least not rapidly. But there is smoke wafting out of the dip stick hole.

I also had a drip of fuel from the tandem pump (mine is a BEW and the pump is on the driver's side of the engine). But I tightened the bolts a bit, and seems like the fuel leaking there stopped.

Do you guys think the oil light is likely oil pressure low? Still due to the turbo, because maybe it's not sealing well? Or some other issue?

I did do my first timing belt job, but I believe the camshaft pin and the crankshaft sprocket holder/pin kept everything locked in place and that the timing was maintained... but if it was off a bit could I have valves that are a bit open at the wrong time? ...that shouldn't affect the oil pressure though?

Or is there some gasket or seal that I might not have installed properly that could be causing this. I'm pretty sure the head gasket was installed well. I made positioning pins with a couple of the old head bolts to make sure the gasket and head lined up well, then torqued down the new bolts properly... so I doubt it's the head gasket.

Ideas, about where to start?
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,glutton for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB , added an 06 NB DSG
Yes on getting a quality turbo.
I would get an oil pressure gage and install at the oil pressure switch and follow the Bentley MANUAL for what the min pressure is at a given rpm, it could be just a bad switch.
Oil pressure warning doesn’t take effect until I believe your above 1500-1600 rpm.
I have nothing for you on the tandem pump , but someone will chime in.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
You’re best bet is a new quality turbo. Or maybe a used OEM. I keep a used VNT 15 on the shelf for my ALH’s. The last one I found I bought from a member on this forum for $100+shipping. I cleaned it and when I needed it I had it.

Tightening those bolts on the tandem pump was a good idea, keep watch and make any necessary changes.

Check the oil pressure as Steve suggested.
 
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