Signal Light Stays on

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
Hi guys,

I did some searching on this but couldn't find anything directly related to my issue.

I'm wondering if anyone here has seen this problem and knows what is causing it.......

Yesterday while driving I turned on the left signal and it blinked once, then just stayed on.
(2001 Golf TDI)

The right blinker works fine.

Hazard won't work now.

No lights are burnt out.

The left stays on no matter what. No blinking...just on.
Includes all three left turn signal lights and the left indicator in the dash.

Removing related fuses didn't do anything.
I had to disconnect the battery.



I'm wondering if this might be the signal light relay....or possibly the turn signal lever mechanism. But...the right signal still works fine.

I doubt it's a short in the line somewhere as it only happened when I turned the signal on. Which points to the lever or relay.


Any thoughts?


(Yes...the blinker fluid is at the correct level.;):rolleyes:)
 
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That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
Ya...with the key off the lights stay on.

Is that relay in behind the hazard button? Is it simple to get out/replace?

PS: Thanks :)
 
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compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
The relay is the hazzard button. It is very easy to replace, just pop it out of the dash and plug in a new one. If you don't have heated seats this is extra easy, remove one of the blanks, reach behind, and push the button out the front.

-J
 

Corsair

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Location
Weedsport, New York
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5M
I'm not doubting any of the advice given above, and hope it fixes your issue.
If not, and you happen to need to pursue further, one of the first things that comes to my mind is to check all of the bulbs associated with that light / light function. ("shotgun" replace them all). I'm thinking of several years ago when I encountered someone with a dual filament bulb that failed, and actually connected one filament to the other, thus creating a link between two circuits that aren't normally linked. The car wasn't a VW, and as I recall, it took us a very long time to find the @#$%^^*& cause.
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
The relay was the problem.

There was a blank to the left of the hazard button. I popped that out and was able to get a finger in there and partially nudge the hazard button/relay out. Then I used a screw driver to pry it out the rest of the way.

Its possible to remove it with just a screw driver. By just prying at the button. Just need to be careful not to mark up the dash. The new relay comes with the button so no worries about messing up the old one. Although it comes out fairly easily.


Thanks again. And good to know about the double filament bulbs...I might have a few of those.
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
It's back.

Changing the hazard switch/relay worked for about a day.

I just got back from a quick 25 min trip to HomeDepot and the left signal lights are all stuck on again. (Put about 300Km on it since replacing the switch the other day...one long trip and a few short ones around town....worked fine until just now.)

I removed/disconnected the new hazard switch, and the lights still stay on. Which leads me to think that the hazard switch may not be the problem. Although replacing it the last time did work...but wouldn't the lights go off if it was disconnected?

I'm going to check all three lights next to see if any are that dual filament type...and if anything looks odd.

Disconnecting the rear left tail light connection has no effect. The left fender and front signal lights still stay on. I won't be able to get at them until they cool down first...I've disconnected the battery again.

btw...disconnecting and reconnecting the battery also has no effect. But...as I had the battery off for a few hours before changing the relay/switch the last time....I'm gonna wait and see if it works okay after reconnecting it in a few hours this time. Might point to a bad capacitor somewhere, or a heat related short of some kind.

I'll also give the related fuses another look.

Anyone have any other ideas?
 
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compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
I don't think it's a problem with the stalk, as that goes through the relay. I wonder if something is broken in the CCM?

-J
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
How about cleaning the electrical contacts in the stalk area with contact clearner and lubricating with WD-40 as mentioned in this thread:



http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=167831&highlight=turn+signal




May not fix it, but it's good to eliminate it from the equation and is a cheap thing to do. If I remember correctly I had those symptoms, and this took care of it for me. It's been 2 years, and all is well!
 
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That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
I was actually thinking to replace the turn signal with one of those newer ones...some day.
On the GTI, if I tap the signal it will blink three times in that direction. Handy for lane changes. I know...it's kinda lazy...but I've gotten used to it.

If I was to go this far to clean it on the TDI, I might as well replace it.

But that being said....I'm 99% sure that the problem is with the relay on the CCM. All of the symptoms and workarounds are identical.

Eg.

- it happens when the car is hot
- tapping the relay/ccm fixes the problem
- locking and unlocking the car with the fob fixes it
- the lights stay on even with the key off and removed
- replacing the hazard relay didn't fix it

My wife works with a guy that does electrical work on radios. I'm going to see if he could replace the relay for me. (It's been like 20 or more year since I did any soldering on a circuit board...and I'd want it done right.)
It's that or replace the whole CCM.

We'll see. I'm not in any rush. With the weather getting cooler I don't expect to have this problem much or again until next summer.
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
I sent the link above (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=174543
) to the radio guy. I asked if he could replace the relay on the CCM for me...assuming that I provide the relay.

I guess he's really into this kind of stuff. :D He's already done a bit of research into that relay and says that he might even be able to repair it. He has some experience fixing relays that stick.
If he can't fix it he'll purchase a new one through his supplier contacts...should be cheaper.

He also mentioned that the solder shouldn't be removed as per the instructions in the link above. The CCM board could be multi-layered, and removing the solder could cause problems. He still has to look at the board...as I haven't pulled it from the car yet...but he was a bit concerned about this.

I'm going on a bit of a trip with the car tomorrow so I didn't pull the CCM yet. I'll get to it this weekend and get the CCM to him on Monday.

If he fixes the relay, I'll ask him to let me know what he did. Maybe even get pictures. I'm not sure what will be involved...but if I get post-worthy info I'll add it in here.:)
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
He's across town at work. He's working on it a bit here and there between other stuff he's doing.

I'll ask him.

From what I remember seeing, I'm guessing that it can't be popped off. I think it's plastic welded onto it's base. So would probably need to cut or use heat to get it off....in which case it might be a pain to do while it's still attached to the board.

But I'll let you know what he says. :)
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
Nope...he says that you'd have to remove it for sure.

He had to cut the bottom off to get inside it.

I assume he'll glue it back together later....assuming cleaning it works.
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
UPDATE

He just cleaned it up and put it back together.

I reinstalled the CCM last night. Everything is working normally. But it's too soon to tell if the problem has been fixed. It's was intermittent and depends on the temp in the cabin...or under the dash...to be fairly high before it happens generally.

So it might be a bit before I'll know for sure if this is working. We're heading into fall (cooler temps), and it's possible that I may not see the problem again until next summer....assuming that the problem still exists.

But so far so good.:)

PS: If anyone is interested...

Removing the CCM was fairly easy. Just had to remove the lower dash parts on the driver's side. (write-up at the link above)

The battery didn't have to be disconnected.

The car ran with it removed...although my radio went into SAFE mode. And the Key Fobs will not work wirelessly.
(I only ran the car for a few seconds here...just needed to move it a bit in the garage twice.)

After reconnecting the CCM the radio and key fobs worked fine again.
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
Update:

New relay related problem popped up this summer.

It's just a cosmetic problem this time, but when I use the Fob to lock or unlock the car, only the passenger side lights blink. :(

The guy who cleaned the relay wants another go at it. But I'm thinking to have him replace it this time. Now I just need to find the motivation to get back under the dash to pull the CCM.:rolleyes:

PS: Anyone know where the CCM is on a 2002 Beetle?
Under the dash on the driver's side like my 2001 Golf?
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
So I bought a replacement relay from OnlineComponents.com.

and

I bought a new CCM from TheVWPartsStore.com. (New, and over $100 less than the 2 local dealers...even with shipping, tax, duty, etc.)


Both the relay and the CCMs seem to be discontinued items, and in seemingly short supply, so I bought both.

I'll use the new relay on my old CCM, and keep it as a backup.
And use the new CCM in the car.


But I do have a question....


Do I have to setup the new CCM in anyway after installing it? (It's exactly the same as the old one....minus the crappy old relay);)

I've read read various things about this, but none of them are consistent. Some people just swap the CCMs without a problem. Others mention having to do various procedures with the fobs after the switch.

I'm thinking to do the usual. Lock and unlock the car manually with the key-fob in the door. And roll the windows up and down with the key-fob in the door.

I'm hoping that's all there is to it. Can anyone confirm?
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
After replacing the CCM, the keys would work when physically inserted, but not remotely.

I had to follow the manual reset instructions in my car's manual to get the fobs to work remotely.

1) Insert one of the keys into the ignition and turn it on...but do not start the car.

2) from outside the vehicle, insert the 2nd key in the door and lock it.

It didn't state whether to leave it in the door or take it out at this point. I left it in.

3) Press the lock or unlock button on the second key fob....just press it once.

4) Wait at least 2 seconds.

5) I removed the key from the door at this point. Then press the lock or unlock button on the 2nd key fob again once.

6) Switch off the ignition, and remove the 1st key fob.



Now switch the keys and repeat the process. (I found that only the second key would work remotely. Swaping the keys in the procedure above fixed the 1st key. Both work fine now.)

And all of my signal lights blink now when locking or unlocking the car. So the new CCM fixed that issue. :)


PS: It states that you only have 30 seconds to complete steps 2 through 5. Plenty of time, so no panic. But good to know anyway.
 
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pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2012 wagon CJAA; 2004 wagon BEW
I have the exact same issue. Removed the relay and problem solved. The only issue is that I don't have a visual indication of lock-unlock.

I did buy a small relay very similar in size to the defective one, installed but didn't work. I believe this one needs more juice to activate the coil.

I still think that 20 bucks for a relay is way too much for such a simple device but it would be nice to regain the flashing of lights.
 

That Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
$20 for a relay isn't too bad when you consider that a new CCM can cost over $400. And when you consider that they don't make those specific relays any more.


I have found a new problem though.

After replacing my CCM I can now open the drivers door with the key still in the ignition and there is no bell to warn me that the key is still in the ignition.

I'm sure this is just another setup/config issue with the new CCM. I just need to find out how to re-enable that. I may have unintentionally disabled it when I was initially trying to get the remote functionality of the key fobs to work with the new CCM.
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2012 wagon CJAA; 2004 wagon BEW
As I understand Tyco still manufactures these relays, but they don't sell them to individuals. I had a similar issue with a washer machine part that the Brazilian maker of the part wouldn't sell to me and the stupid supplier had them back-ordered forever.

Would you sell one of your relays to me? I know you had to place a $100 minimum order plus $35 shipping. I will send you a PM with a reasonable offer.
 
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