//// Shine Racing / Up graded springs ////

[Andyinchville1]

Hi All,

Been reading a lot about how to make your car handle better and it seems in the past Dick Shine and Shine racing made some good stuff.

What happened to them? (they seemed to have disappeared although the shine rear sway bar (a copy of it) seems to live on Via ID parts..

Anyways, I like the concept of a non lowered (altho I think shine still lowers the car about an inch with their springs ?) car that handles well.... I am particularly intrigued by the higher rate springs they had....

My preference is a 1.5" higher than stock ride achieved via springs not spacers with a higher than VR6 spring rate .... Does anything like this exist ?

I am currently running Special actives struts in front with lesjofors (sp?) VR6 springs in the front (stock sway bar in front) with TT bushings in the lower control arms ....

I would like to find beefier front springs that might add another 1/2" (or a bit more over the springs I have now).

Does anybody know the specs of the shine front springs ?

Does anybody know where i may find such a front spring ? ( Coil overs I don't think will work since they seem to lower things more than increase ride height).

In the rear I am running my old stock wagon springs (332K miles on them but I didn't want to replace them with factory new because it may raise the ride height more than I assume a slightly sagged ride height).

I just installed a Whiteline RSB set on the softest setting.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[bobbiemartin]

Been reading a lot about how to make your car handle better and it seems in the past Dick Shine and Shine racing made some good stuff.
What happened to them? (they seemed to have disappeared although the shine rear sway bar (a copy of it) seems to live on Via ID parts..

They are still available at Kerma. If anything, the Shine springs raise the ride height slightly. I had them on a Golf I did a while back. I really liked the Shine springs, but I had other mods as well. That Golf handled very well and the ride was not too stiff. If I were doing up another MK4, I would use them again without reservation.

 

[Rrusse11]

Here's my winter setup, for summer and towing the camper I use
wagon towing springs in the rear for extra load capacity, ~ + 1".
Front swaybar is mildly upgraded to 23mm vs stock 21.
VR6 +10mm spacers on the front, Golf towing springs rear, suplex from
idparts.
From a handling perspective I've got an LSD, now there's a BIG upgrade.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The most important attribute of the Shine setup is making the car level. As a street setup it's OK. I had the full setup installed in my car by Shine in 2004. Took it out a year later. At the time they didn't have Wagon rear springs so the rear of the car was too low. And I hated the Bilstein HDs. And I can say without reservation that it's not a good setup for the track.

 

[kennethsime]

The most important attribute of the Shine setup is making the car level. As a street setup it's OK. I had the full setup installed in my car by Shine in 2004. Took it out a year later. At the time they didn't have Wagon rear springs so the rear of the car was too low. And I hated the Bilstein HDs. And I can say without reservation that it's not a good setup for the track.

IBW, do you have a recommendation for washboard roads?

I have a 2004 wagon that I'd like to upgrade the suspension on. Some commuting, and rough Sierra Nevada roads on the weekends.

I'm thinking of the ID Parts lift springs + Koni Special Actives, and maybe metal nerd spacers on top if I need a little more?

Skid plate to follow.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

You're doing what I'd recommend.

 

[kennethsime]

You're doing what I'd recommend.

Ok, that means a lot coming from you. Thanks!

 

[300D]

I have the VR6 front springs and rear towing springs with all new Sachs dampers and shocks on my 03 wagon. All from IDParts. Sits nice and level and about an inch up. Very very happy with it. Taller springs don’t feel any stiffer. Just higher. Don’t have to worry anymore on back road lumps. Probably will go up the scale for shocks and dampers next time.

 

[Rrusse11]

IBW, do you have a recommendation for washboard roads?

I have a 2004 wagon that I'd like to upgrade the suspension on. Some commuting, and rough Sierra Nevada roads on the weekends.

I'm thinYouking of the ID Parts lift springs + Koni Special Actives, and maybe metal nerd spacers on top if I need a little more?

Skid plate to follow.

You'll love it. Do the spacers. I may be a little stiffer on the springs, and
bought my Special Reds before the Actives came out. A little lift and a skid
plate really gives some confidence on rough roads.

But, and here I go beating the dead horse again, stiffen the body with
a front strut top brace bar, and especially for the Golf and wagon, you need
an internal rear brace. Both are simple, cheap, AND effective in reducing the bane of our monocoque cars, body flex!

 

[kennethsime]

You'll love it. Do the spacers. I may be a little stiffer on the springs, and
bought my Special Reds before the Actives came out. A little lift and a skid
plate really gives some confidence on rough roads.

But, and here I go beating the dead horse again, stiffen the body with
a front strut top brace bar, and especially for the Golf and wagon, you need
an internal rear brace. Both are simple, cheap, AND effective in reducing the bane of our monocoque cars, body flex!

Can you recommend an internal rear brace? COVID put a damper on my car plans, but I'm getting closer again. The Audi TT Front Strut Brace from ID looks pretty good to me, but they don't stock anything for the rear.

 

[Mountain TDI]

Hi All,

Been reading a lot about how to make your car handle better and it seems in the past Dick Shine and Shine racing made some good stuff.

What happened to them? (they seemed to have disappeared although the shine rear sway bar (a copy of it) seems to live on Via ID parts..

Anyways, I like the concept of a non lowered (altho I think shine still lowers the car about an inch with their springs ?) car that handles well.... I am particularly intrigued by the higher rate springs they had....

My preference is a 1.5" higher than stock ride achieved via springs not spacers with a higher than VR6 spring rate .... Does anything like this exist ?

I am currently running Special actives struts in front with lesjofors (sp?) VR6 springs in the front (stock sway bar in front) with TT bushings in the lower control arms ....

I would like to find beefier front springs that might add another 1/2" (or a bit more over the springs I have now).

Does anybody know the specs of the shine front springs ?

Does anybody know where i may find such a front spring ? ( Coil overs I don't think will work since they seem to lower things more than increase ride height).

In the rear I am running my old stock wagon springs (332K miles on them but I didn't want to replace them with factory new because it may raise the ride height more than I assume a slightly sagged ride height).

I just installed a Whiteline RSB set on the softest setting.

Thanks

Andrew

I have had the Shine springs (from Kerma) with Billy HDs. The rear was too low (for crappy fireroad driving to trailheads and such here in Central Sierras) and rough. Replaced rear springs with wagon springs and rear shocks (kept HDs up front) with Koni Yellows (2nd softest setting) as recommended by Vortex handling thread, and added 2 10mm spacers in front. With General 225/50/16 AS 05 Gmax, handling is great and I still have pretty good ground clearance for fire road stuff.

 

[kennethsime]

I have had the Shine springs (from Kerma) with Billy HDs. The rear was too low (for crappy fireroad driving to trailheads and such here in Central Sierras) and rough. Replaced rear springs with wagon springs and rear shocks (kept HDs up front) with Koni Yellows (2nd softest setting) as recommended by Vortex handling thread, and added 2 10mm spacers in front. With General 225/50/16 AS 05 Gmax, handling is great and I still have pretty good ground clearance for fire road stuff.

That's good feedback man, pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I have had the Shine springs (from Kerma) with Billy HDs. The rear was too low (for crappy fireroad driving to trailheads and such here in Central Sierras) and rough. Replaced rear springs with wagon springs and rear shocks (kept HDs up front) with Koni Yellows (2nd softest setting) as recommended by Vortex handling thread, and added 2 10mm spacers in front. With General 225/50/16 AS 05 Gmax, handling is great and I still have pretty good ground clearance for fire road stuff.

Looks like you've ended up with a setup that you're happy with, but you've defeated the purpose of Shine springs, which is to improve MKIV handling with a combination of spring rates, ride height, and damping. You could have gotten a similar, perhaps better, result with VR6 front springs and Konis all around. Mixing types of shocks front and rear can cause some odd ride motions.

 

[aslspiderman]

I had shine springs/FSD's/rear torsion bar on my 02 and really liked them. I currently have shine springs/Billy HD's/rear torsion bar on my 98 and they perform well on that platform too. The ride height on the 98 is not as noticeable as it was on the 02. While I would prefer the front being a little lower for aesthetics, the handling far outweighs any mildly odd look.

There is one oddity with the rears on the 98 I never noticed until recently. If the suspension is fully extended, as when the car is on a lift, the rear springs are actually loose in the perch. I'm curious if anyone else has seen that? It makes me wonder if the proper shock combo should be the Bilstein sports and not the HD's?

Any comments?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

There is one oddity with the rears on the 98 I never noticed until recently. If the suspension is fully extended, as when the car is on a lift, the rear springs are actually loose in the perch. I'm curious if anyone else has seen that? It makes me wonder if the proper shock combo should be the Bilstein sports and not the HD's?

Any comments?

Shine doesn't have "take up" (or whatever they're called) coils, so the springs can sit loose in the purch with the wheels hanging. That's true of the fronts as well. It can alarm service techs who aren't familiar with the springs.

 

[Mountain TDI]

Looks like you've ended up with a setup that you're happy with, but you've defeated the purpose of Shine springs, which is to improve MKIV handling with a combination of spring rates, ride height, and damping. You could have gotten a similar, perhaps better, result with VR6 front springs and Konis all around. Mixing types of shocks front and rear can cause some odd ride motions.

Here is the discussion of a mullet shock setup:

Shine Kit with Koni vs. Shine Kit with Bilstein.... or...

www.vwvortex.com

If the front Billys ever wear out I may replace struts with the same as back-- Koni Yellows (adjustable)

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

That thread is what caused me to jettison the Shine kit on my Wagon and go back to stock springs with Koni Reds, probalby in 2005 or thereabouts, which was when Reds (now discontinued) first came to NA. I've tried a few other setups, but I just put my third set of Reds in the wagon this year with new stock springs. My favorite setup. Rear bar is still in there, 17 years later.

 

[Tirefriar]

Came across this thread while doing research on shocks/struts. I have 147k miles on the Mk4 3 door, shocks are shot. I travel smooth So Cal roads, would like to improve the handling, comfort ride is not of utter importance. Going through this forum I gathered keeping stock height is paramount for saving engine oil pan from destruction. What are the recommendations?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

There are some good threads on ride and handling on MKIV cars. The one referenced above is one of the best, and there's one here called "What is Handling" (you'll have to search for it) which is also good.

But when people call IDParts and ask the question you're asking, one thing I tell them is that everyone's interpretation of comfort and handling are different, and highly subjective. I like Koni Reds or Special Actives with stock springs on my MKIV, but others think they're way too soft and the handling is sloppy. I think Bilstein HDs are very harsh in these cars, others think they're excellent.

Peter Pyce, who started the Vortex thread that is linked in the earlier post, lives in San Francisco. He drives on roads similar to what you have in LA. So he's a good data point. He also delves into the limitations of the simple suspension design on VWs, and how to overcome its limitations. Even though the thread is 18 years old, the cars are the same. It's a good place to start.

 

[Tirefriar]

Following up on several threaSD including that of Peter Pyce. Here’s a bit more info on my application: TDI is a 5 sp manual, does commuter duties with an occasional canyon run, stock 15” steel wheels (may go to 15” alloys at some point in time). Bought the TDI as an economy/budget transportation alternative to a 2006 Saleen, intend to keep it that way so budget is important. Would Koni orange combined with Shine springs make sense?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

It might. I think the Orange Konis ride pretty firm on MKIVs. If you're OK with that then they're a good option. My preference would be Koni Special Actives, however.

I'm a big fan of 15" wheels on these cars, especially in the Northeast where I live and roads are beyond terrible. However, there aren't any performance 15" tires out there. If you want better handling for canyon runs (and in SoCal you can buy summer tires, which also aren't available in 15" size) then go to 16s. 225/50 16s on a light 7" wide wheel is a great setup.

 

[Tirefriar]

thanks for the info. How would going to 16” wheel affect fuel mileage? Is it all about the rolling diameter?

 

[Andyinchville1]

Came across this thread while doing research on shocks/struts. I have 147k miles on the Mk4 3 door, shocks are shot. I travel smooth So Cal roads, would like to improve the handling, comfort ride is not of utter importance. Going through this forum I gathered keeping stock height is paramount for saving engine oil pan from destruction. What are the recommendations?

I'm seriously thinking of the upgraded control arms next time I have to change out bushings ...

I think there are things that can be swapped out with Audis BUT this seems easier / better ? (see link below)

Racing Geometry (MK4) : USRT | Real cars, Real Roads, Real Fast!

USRT : Racing Geometry (MK4) - Engine, Fuel & Spark, Transmission, Other, Water/Methanol Injection, Suspension, Exhaust, Forced Induction, Brakes, Fittings (AN & NPT),

usrallyteam.com

The racing Subframe seems cool too and would help offset the weight of the skid plate

A rear antisway bar helps too ... I went with Whiteline adjustable .... makes a big difference in feel.

Andrew