she pulls to the left - after an alignment??

[tdipoet]

yesterday i brought my car in to have it aligned. it's been pulling to the left. very annoying and makes driving a bit tiring since i'm always trying to compensate for it. let go of the wheel, and she drifts off. this happened before and after i bought new tires for it, so i don't think it had anything to do with the tires. i called the shop afterward to complain, and they said that it might not be the alignment, that it was probably the tires. which i disagree with for the aforementioned reason. the only thing i can think of, other than a botched alignment, is that they rotated the tires after they aligned it. which seems somewhat backwards to me.

any thoughts on what this might be, or is it just a botched alignment? i want some ammo when i go back to the shop.

fyi, it was a thrust alignment. according to the guy on the phone caster was in fact checked. can the passat be four-wheel aligned?

 

[MITBeta]

Well, one thing to rule out the tires is to swap the two fronts and see if the car still pulls left.

Have you checked the tire pressures?

 

[solstar]

take it back and have them correct it or buy a new tire as one of your tires has a broken belt!

 

[tdipoet]

can't swap the two fronts - they're directional tires. yokohama avid t4s. i did a front to back swap. well, they did, but you get the picture. tire pressures look fine, i check that fairly often and this is something that's been going on for longer than a tire pressure issue would suggest.

 

[dieseldorf]

The car should have a full 4 wheel alignment. A lot of times the shop can give you the "before" and "after" print out. Did they?

On the Passat, two of the three parameters (toe, caster, camber) are easily adjusted.

I have had a similar experience with my Jetta. The new tires cause the car to pull to the left. These are brand-new tires and wheels that are causing this. I can re-install the OE Michelins and OE wheels and the car goes down the road straight as an arrow. I have had the alignment verified twice after the initial alignment and it is dead on yet the car still pulls to the left with the 16" wheel/tire setup. They did swap the two front wheels (side to side) and that help slightly. I have just grown accumstomed to it and try to put if out of my mind. It's not a severe condition and most people probably wound not notice it.

 

[tdipoet]

Originally posted by solstar:
one of your tires has a broken belt!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hope not! but that seems unlikely:

Originally posted by tdipoet:
this happened before and after i bought new tires for it, so i don't think it had anything to do with the tires

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[RIP TDI]

I've had the same slight left-pull on my wagon, regardless of what tires were on it. Swapping tires right-to-left makes no difference. I've had it thrust-aligned twice by a very competent shop and specs were good. (BTW, you can align the rear...camber and toe are correctable with tapered shims.)

After you have eliminated the very common problem of loose rack bolts (you've checked yours, right?) I think there are couple of explanations:

1) It may be that something in the front is moving under drive forces when the car is in motion which doesn't show up in a static alignment. I suspect one or both of the front A-arm bushings on one side is deflecting excessively under load, causing uneven caster side-to-side.

2) The inner tie rod ends can wear and develop excessive play on these cars. Mine appear to be worn, though very slightly. I say appear because testing them in the conventional way is a bit inconclusive when the wear is very slight. The rack pre-load needs adjustment, too, since I get a very slight metallic knock when turning the wheel back and forth (car parked).

 

[Frank M]

some questions:

when did the pulling start... suddenly. gradual.. after some event(not able to discern if this happened after yesterdays alignment)?

what kind of wear did you have on the original tires?

what lane do you drive in when it is pulling?

are you heavier than normal? (respectivly asked)

is the alignment shop a place that specilizes in steering and suspension? not a chain I hope..if they charged more than the chains that is a good sign..

we can go from here..depending on answers

[ February 23, 2003, 07:00: Message edited by: Frank M ]

 

[tdipoet]

how would i check my rack bolts? i haven't checked that...

 

[tdipoet]

Originally posted by Frank M:
some questions:

when did the pulling start... suddenly. gradual.. after some event(not able to discern if this happened after yesterdays alignment)?

i'm not really sure... either gradually enough so that i thought the car always did that, or before i bought it. i've had the car one year.

what kind of wear did you have on the original tires?

bad. they were crappy tires and pretty worn.

what lane do you drive in when it is pulling?

any, all. it will do this off the highway as well, just traveling down the street.

are you heavier than normal? (respectivly asked)

i'm french candian. which is to say not winnowy but i'm certainly not throwing off the alignment. my skinny swimmer friend noticed this issue while driving as well.

is the alignment shop a place that specilizes in steering and suspension? not a chain I hope..if they charged more than the chains that is a good sign..

c&r tire in worcester. they're a fairly large place. not a chain. cost me 55 for the alignment and i think they charged me ten for some kid to rotate my tires. and by rotate my tires i mean remove the bolts and let them drop five feet to the ground. if they didn't drop right off, they were kicked off. (that one really frosted my peaches) supposably that was because wheels sometimes "rust on and can't be easily removed. which somehow i doubt, having removed many wheels off of cars far rustier than my own.

we can go from here..depending on answers

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[Frank M]

Originally posted by tdipoet:
[QBis the alignment shop a place that specilizes in steering and suspension? not a chain I hope..if they charged more than the chains that is a good sign..

c&r tire in worcester. they're a fairly large place. not a chain. cost me 55 for the alignment and i think they charged me ten for some kid to rotate my tires. and by rotate my tires i mean remove the bolts and let them drop five feet to the ground. if they didn't drop right off, they were kicked off. (that one really frosted my peaches) supposably that was because wheels sometimes "rust on and can't be easily removed. which somehow i doubt, having removed many wheels off of cars far rustier than my own.
[/qb]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My suggestion at this point would be to start over with an aligment check at a different facility.
Give them your complaints and have them check it out.
A good independent shop is located right in Hooksett.
We need to be sure steering and suspension are tight and the alignment numbers are correct.

 

[tdipoet]

Which shop are you thinking of?

i'm reluctant to take it somewhere else simply because i just paid 55 bucks to have absolutely no change. it definitely hurts to take it somewhere else and pay them another 60 bucks or more. then again, if there is still an issue i can go back there and demand a refund. will they give it to me? i don't know.

this is why i never let anyone but myself or tdiclub members touch my car. it can only end in tears.

 

[RIP TDI]

The 4 rack bolt heads are located under the large subframe directly below (obviously) the steering rack. Make sure they and their nuts above on the rack are tight.

If you still have your alignment results printout, check to see if any values are out of spec, or close to being out. Some shops may not alert you to a value that is out of spec but which they cannot correct, like your Passat's caster, or which they think they cannot correct, like rear toe or camber. Also look for side-to-side variances that are excessive or at the limit, and excessive thrust angle.

When evaluating an alignment shop, find one that is using a Hunter 611 alignment machine, which is state of the art and the least susceptable to human error. Tell them you're in no hurry and ask them to put their most experienced man on the case.

 

[dieseldorf]

Originally posted by Chris Bell:
Tell them you're in no hurry and ask them to put their most experienced man on the case.

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[Dean_S]

The major reason for tracting to one side is differential or cross camber. This is easy to check. the cross camber needs to be very close to zero. (If you have upgraded wheels and tires to bigger rims, the camber should be reduced from stock. I went from 14 to 16" rims and reduced the camber to -0.5 each side. I had to get qutie insistant that the facotory spec for 14" tires was not applicable for 16" rims and performance tires. We needed a cam bolt to get to -0.5 degrees.)

 

[Frank M]

Originally posted by tdipoet:
Which shop are you thinking of?

i'm reluctant to take it somewhere else simply because i just paid 55 bucks to have absolutely no change. it definitely hurts to take it somewhere else and pay them another 60 bucks or more. then again, if there is still an issue i can go back there and demand a refund. will they give it to me? i don't know.

this is why i never let anyone but myself or tdiclub members touch my car. it can only end in tears.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unfortunatly you need to know if its an alignment problem or not. You have eliminated the basics already. (tires-wheels)

A good shop will charge from $90 -$125 for an alignment.
Anything less should send a red flag. The cost of machine, tech's wages and shop time for a $50 alignment does not add up.

 

[go_tdi]

One of my lower control arm bushings was week and steering rack was lose.
Every time i took it in for an alinement the shop always said it was my tires even after they put new tires on.