Serious problem, I need help. Dropped bamboo skewer in injector/head

kooyajerms

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*Problem fixed, read on*

Don't rub salt in the wound. The thing snapped... It's a 1 inch piece inside the head. I see it with the flashlight through the hole. it is sitting lengthwise. across the hole. sigh. I'm not very happy right now. I'm actually kind of sad.

I need suggestions of what to do. I cannot spend money opening up the head. I just can't.

How do I retrieve that bamboo skewer piece? is there a way to fish from valve cover side?

What would be a way to attract a piece of bamboo to something long and slender? I don't want to jostle it, I don't even know what it is sitting on top of at this moment.

-bearing grease on a long metal piece that will not break?
-disinigrate the bamboo skewer somehow?
-

So much for being dilligent about cleaning out the injector hole.


Please reply with some good answers, I don't want to just try anything at this point....

I guess I'll clean the rest of the holes WITHOUT THE SKEWERS. Don't do it. I wish it was metal... (but then i would have been scratching the head, thus the bamboo)

No earthquakes please.

Jeremy the idiot
 
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kooyajerms

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what's it sitting on top of? if it's doing a balancing act, the torch will just blow it away. But I am thinking of it and have my blue bottle cocked and ready.

it looks as if it's 1 inch away from the hole. and its 1.5 inches long. did one of those twirls like a basketball at the buzzer shots. just watched it go in super slomo. It might be too far for the torch

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=204332&highlight=dropped+in+head but this is a different story. best i could find with search. doesn't do me any good i think.
 
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Krusshall

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You can try sucking it out with a vacuum cleaner.

You can also get one of those springloaded grabber devices. It looks like the old style spiral wound throttle cables from a lawnmower and you push a button on one end and three fingers come out the other end. Release the button and the fingers will retract grabbing the skewer.
 
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Growler

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if you can see it, try a dab of gel superglue on the end of a long metal stick..
try to snag it as close to the end of the skewer as you can get and hopefully it will stick enough to pull it out of the hole.

the gel stuff dries a lil slower and should stick to the bamboo skewerr nicely.

you might also try a dab of rubber cement on the end as well if the superglue doesnt work. that will be a bit more flexible and just as grippy.
 

kooyajerms

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it's laying horizontal, and i can't see the end so it would be tough for it to angle up and through with the vacuum. i'm happy i can see it right now... but man it's dark in there and my vision through the injector hole can only go so far.

tdiracing said i should turn the engine over to raise the piston to better get a handle on it. my goodness its a tight squeeze.
 

kooyajerms

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growler good tip. superglue and bond to the skewer before dooing the pulling up action.

my only problem is it eseems as if i'd be touching the middle of the skewer, and trying to pull up on that would be unintelligent. i gotta maneuver it to see the end... i shouldn't be in danger of it falling anywher eright?


BTW how do you crank the engine over by hand again?
take off the timing belt, put the 19mm on the pulley and turn it over right? clockwise?
 
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Growler

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12 point 19mm socket on the crank bolt at the bottom of the engine on the passenger side.


the skewer is most likely sitting on top of the piston. worse case is it gets down into the bowl in the piston. OR if it sticks to any carbon hanging out at the top of the cylinder on the bottom of the head.

you might try to LOWER the piston to get a better angle at the END of the skewer. with your sticky poker..
 

Rickstah

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Krusshall said:
You can try sucking it out with a vacuum cleaner.

You can also get one of those springloaded grabber devices. It looks like the old style spiral wound throttle cables from a lawnmower and you push a button on one end and three fingers come out the other end. Release the button and the fingers will retract grabbing the skewer.
The vacuum method works, but I had this happen once with a nut and I taped a couple of smaller tubes on the end of the vacuum until I had it down to about a straw's diameter (clear plastic tube) and was able to stick it down right onto the nut and it came up into the tube and wedged and I pulled it up. I started with a small shopvac hose and duct taped until it got small enough to push down into the area.
 

Growler

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umm no need to remove the timing belt. just turn it whichever direction you need, we are only talking abou t a few degrees either way. shouldnt hurt anything.
 

DPM

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Personally, I'd just start the engine. a piece of twig aint going to bend a rod, and as it's already in the cylinder the valves aren't going to get hung up.
 

sdeck

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how about an air compressor hook up to the GP hole. Let it fly around until it comes out the injector port. (make sure valves are closed!)

Better yet, go to a medical supply or fly-fishing shop and get the longest, thinnest hemostat (locking forceps) you can find.
 

kooyajerms

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i got the pickup tool. harbor freight is 10 minutes away. Let's hope i can angle it out.

burning up the twig would be great, but if it got stuck in a lifter or blocked the piston from going all the way up, tdiracing said it would not be so good.
i'll think about that when it's asmaller piece

hrm to the air compressor. when you move the piston up and down, how do you make sure hte valves are closed?


thanks guys for the quick responses, i've got a bunch of ideas in my head, and i don't feel as unintelligent as before.
 

sdeck

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kooyajerms said:
i got the pickup tool. harbor freight is 10 minutes away. Let's hope i can angle it out.

burning up the twig would be great, but if it got stuck in a lifter or blocked the piston from going all the way up, tdiracing said it would not be so good.
i'll think about that when it's asmaller piece

hrm to the air compressor. when you move the piston up and down, how do you make sure hte valves are closed?

thanks guys for the quick responses, i've got a bunch of ideas in my head, and i don't feel as unintelligent as before.

pull the valve cover and look at the cam lobes for that cylinder. More work than geting the hemostats. I use them trout fishing. They can get pretty far into a small opening and will lock the jaws on whatever you clse them on. Only a few bucks. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94952
 

kooyajerms

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haha paul! 200k injectors no fun!

Well the pickup tool is too big and can't reach that far. i cut the spring around teh pickup tool but it doesn't have the open close action now lol. it was only 2 dollars.
-shoulda got the hemostat. had a friend take me but now he's gone.

i tried some glue and a metal skewer, but it moved the bamboo a bit. gonna turn the engine over a bit. i can't see anything... the hole is so small
 
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kooyajerms

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kooyajerms said:
BTW how do you crank the engine over by hand again?
take off the timing belt, put the 19mm on the pulley and turn it over right? clockwise?
woops i meant timing belt cover. Freudian slip. i was supposed to the tb belt soon, so its the main thing on my mind (first belt job done by me).

using hte vacuum, but not sure where i should point it. any piston etka or piston pics to help me out?
is this what the top looks like when its at the top of the cylinder?


is my little hose sucking all around that type of area, looking for a long stick? im able to put it down about 3 inches from the hole. dont know where that puts the piston
 
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kooyajerms

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i guess the bowl growler speaks of is the indent inside the piston (topside). looks like it could be pretty deep. hrmmm

vacuuming blind. bleh!
 

Ben1000

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If all else fails you could just cycle the glowplugs for a while and wait.

That'll get the cylinder toasty enough to carbonize the twig to the point it will crumble to dust at first impact.

This might be a good idea anyway, just in case any fragments are left behind.

Edit: Bamboo carbonizes between 260℃ and 450℃, the glow plugs are in the range of 800℃ to 1000℃. So carbonization should easily occur even if it's far away from the GP. (If nothing else from the IR radiation)
.
 
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foobert

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Ben1000 said:
cycle the glowplugs ... That'll get the cylinder toasty enough to carbonize the twig
I seriously doubt there's going to be enough heat transfer to carbonize any thing more than the surface of the bamboo that is facing the plug.

You're best bet is to try and fish it out, and if that doesn't work, take a break, restore your patience, and keep trying. There's been several techniques offered above and most of them should work. Only as a last resort would I try any technique of "burning" it out -- especially not with a torch through the hole. Gonna toast things that don't need to be toasted.

Remove the glow plug and use the hole to shine light into the chamber so you aren't fighting to see what you are doing.

Good luck. Let us know what happens.
 

truman

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You might be able to spear it with a needle imbedded in the end of a thin dowel rod?. Remove the glow plug and shine a light down the GP orifice to improve visibility. If you could find a Q tip with a 6" stick, that might work as a good dowel- they are available for medical uses.
 

McBrew

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My brother did basically the same thing. While doing injector nozzles, he was cleaning around the hole with a q-tip and dropped it right into the cylinder. We tried air, vacuum, and cursing a lot... but none of that worked. We started playing around with other q-tips... trying to figure out what we could pour into the cylinder and ignite (ATF, biodiesel, etc) to just burn it up. About that time, he finally found his bendy-gooseneck flashlight and stuck that into the GP hole. Then we were able to see the q-tip clearly and reached in with a dental pick and got it out. It was not difficult, since the pick was able to grab the cotton on the end.

If you can't work it out, burn it. There is no sense in removing the head.
 

craig01b

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I would use a dab of sticky grease on a long whatever....similar idea to super glue, but, would allow the piece to align itself with the hole as it comes thru.....I don't think it would harm the engine either, it would burn up as the engine runs....but, I would definatly try to remove it before I went that route. Better bamboo than metal for sure....I once had a non magnetic piece of a ignitor plug stuck in a 12 million $ pratt and whitney engine.....4 hours with a boroscope and a set of mechanical fingers...a very relieved manager who didn't have to tell the boss we had an engine to change...sh!t happens..good luck

C
 

kooyajerms

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Ok I got it out.

Things that did not work for me

-2 in 1 pick up tool Harbor freight tool was too large to fit into injector hole. even after cutting some of the cover off. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94162
-rubber cement on thin poking device not being able to see and blindly dropping into the hole was way too difficult. The shard moved around way too much.
-did not use the torch trying to shoot a flame into a hole with the item i wish to ignite being 3 inches away, would be pretty darn impossible
-did not start engine no need to "just let it break up into pieces" and risk causing any type of dmg

what did work

-patience don't give up and don't be hasty to do stupid things. It will come out, just be dilligent
-working at night to get rid of ambient light/glare
-Vacuum with smaller hoses taped on

like my shop vac? taped on some clear line so I could see what was going on. Tried for an hour or two just randomly pushing the hose into the hole in different locations. Nothing. Finally put it into my brain to give it some strength and I added a hanger wire to keep the line straight and allow myself to choose the direction. I kept seeing it inside the hole but just couldn't get it to suck up, it would be there and it wouldn't. Tried the blind glue again but that didn't work. Tried that for about 30 minutes and thought of opening up the glow plugs to shine some light. Without noticing, I went to grab the vacuum and I found the shard lodged in the hose. It was out without me even knowing.
Krusshall and Rickstah win.


Shard out


I don't recommend bamboo or wood for cleaning those holes, but it sure isn't fun using a metal pic to clean the walls. So if you do (at your own risk) Make sure they are slightly flexible and are not brittle. I checked my other bamboo skewers and they all were flexing like bamboo should. Too bad the one I used shattered.




I love Problem solving, it's fun to see a plethora of ideas come out of everyone. Especially when things get fixed
 
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Rickstah

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:D That tears it! I'm taking the rest of the day off! Brains like mine shouldn't have to deal with pivot tables all the flippin day when I can be designing accessories for Shop Vac!!!
 

Lex4TDI4Life

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I had good luck with round (chinese restaurant) chopsticks soaked in diesel purge. They are pretty solid and too long to get lost in the head. Sushi chopsticks which you have to break apart are probably not wise.
 

Ben1000

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foobert said:
I seriously doubt there's going to be enough heat transfer to carbonize any thing more than the surface of the bamboo that is facing the plug.
800℃ in a very small air volume, it will. Note that many glowplug cycles were recommended.

foobert said:
Only as a last resort would I try any technique of "burning" it out
Read original post:
Ben1000 said:
If all else fails...
 

zaq123

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I just used a little bit of the throttle body cleaner spray and a tooth brush to clean injector holes when I replaced my nozzles a few weeks ago. Those holes were clean as a mirror
 
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