SDI Intake on ALH with Dyno Data

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I modified my turbo and SDI scroll style intake manifold to bolt on in place of my ALH intake manifold. I use my EGR port for measuring EMP's so I modified the stock flange on the turbo a little to accomodate the larger intake. You also have to remove the OEM TIP heat shield on the right side of the manifold to get the intake to clear the exhaust manifold.

I tapped the EGR hole to accept a 7/8-14 UNF bolt to be able to plug it off. Unfortunately, I didn't check to see if I had a 7/8-14 UNF bolt to put in the hole....so I found a 3/4 to 1/8" NPT bushing and it threaded in the hole "well enough" for the time being.

I used a ~2" hole saw and drilled the right side of the manifold out centered in the steel plug. I then spent some quality time at the TIG welder welding over the raw cast aluminum with no filler over and over again to get all the impurities out before I could finally add filler and build up a boss that I then ground flat. I then drilled/tapped with the pattern from my race pipe. I made simple steel block off plates for all the other holes and screwed a 3/4" NPT plug in the CCV port. All of this work makes it "interchangable" with the stock ALH intake and racepipe. I drilled/tapped the original inlet blockoff plate for my boost gauge connection.

Pretty clean install if I do say - the upper engine cover mount does not line up but you'd never know it. I had to make a ~3" long extension to make the OEM question mark shaped hose fit since the SDI sits farther "back and down" and I had to bend the high side A/C line out of the way (which I ended up breaking - doh!).

I only had to rotate the 45deg bend at the top of my 3" TIP to make it work (and it still works with the ALH intake as well).

I took the opportunity at the recent local dyno day to do some dyno testing between a stock ALH intake and an SDI intake. The runs were made on the same day about 1 hour 45 minutes apart with the same tune, etc. The SDI was run first, then the ALH. I'll let the results speak for themselves.

copy/paste of signature for reference

03 Jetta, Cat 2u Fuel Filter, DG Steel SP with MOGolf Mod, DG Ultra SS, 3" downpipe, 4" exhaust, CC Vent, 0.681 5th, Amsoil EaBP110 Bypass, Elf 506.01, Redline D4, Boost & EGT & EMP & N75 Gauges, Euroswitch, PD Lift Pump, EGR Delete, PP502 DBW'd, RC5 or 6, ScanGaugeII, BB Dual Diaphram Clutch, 3" Turbo Intake Tube, VNT 17/22, 3 Bar MAP, VR6 MAF, Vented Fender Liner, Battery Cover Access Mod, 11mm IP, Monster Mats, 205/70/15's (27.9/53.0/75) Monthly MPG Links, Euro Trunk Latch, IDParts RSB

 

[BlownBusa]

Sooo.... stock is better? Really?

 

[mk1-83]

Great test results maybe test the pd130 intake also

 

[leon10tagg]

I would have thought that an audi A4 pd130 intake with input on the rhs, which has been ported would provide a reasonable increase in flow.......

 

[CERBER]

hah!
I thouth that SDI intake is the best intake ever...so guys if you want to rerach 250+hp, ALH intake is your manifold

 

[Farfromovin]

Wow, I have difficulty comprehending the results if everything is as "even" as it seems for the testing.

 

[dieselpower04]

Wow! Did not think that would happen!

And you are only making 125 whp on RC5?

 

[JarHead]

Wow So What about the PD150 With the R32 Snorkle and TIP kit?

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

It's not what I expected either - I figured I'd take the best and worst looking bolt on intake manifold designs and compare them. I'd expect the PD130/150 intakes to be somewhere in the middle, but maybe not?

The power numbers are lower than I expected with a 11mm pump/PP502's/lift pump/17-22/full IQ voltage/etc. I know my stock intercooler and pipes are not the best, but I don't think they're that bad either where they would cost 40hp? That's a whole different discussion though.

I reviewed the VagLogs and dyno data and nothing stands out there that would make a difference. I triple checked the data to make sure I'm comparing the right files, etc.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Wow So What about the PD150 With the R32 Snorkle and TIP kit?

I don't have any of those specific items to test with, however, I'm running a VR6 MAF housing, no snorkle on the airbox at all and the pictures show my 3" mandrel bent TIP. These items were the same for all the testing.

 

[O.C.TDI]

Were you able to collect any intake air temp data from the 2 runs?

 

[JarHead]

I have ordered a complete R32 Snorkle back TIP kit as well as a PD150 Intake From Ryanp. I will get it Dyno'ed with a before and after. Ill let you guys know.

 

[TDIsyncro]

Were you able to collect any intake air temp data from the 2 runs?

x2

With 1hr 45min between runs, heat soak should not be an issue, but did ambient go up significantly. It does seem a bit counter intuitive.
I think this speaks about a bigger issue. Members are spending lots of money on items that have questionable performance value. When I say questionable, the product may be of excellent craftsman ship, or is great looking OEM part, and it may or may not add HP, but where is the data too show it actually has done anything positive. It would be nice if people pedaling parts would do some dyno testing on them before asking others to waste their hard earned cash on the perception that it is a performance upgrade.

thanks for your work on this FUB.

 

[TDIsyncro]

I have ordered a complete R32 Snorkle back TIP kit as well as a PD150 Intake From Ryanp. I will get it Dyno'ed with a before and after. Ill let you guys know.

Sounds like an intake sticky in the making.

 

[john.jackson9213]

Congratulations on a very nicely documented test!

This is the type of testing the factory does on each and every part to come up with their stock engines. That is why it is so hard to improve on the factory and to make it last for the lifetime of the car.

Many years ago, I had the chance to review a whole series of documented Chevrolet dyno development tests of the old Corvair high performance engines. Very enlightening to see all the tests the factory does before releasing a production engine.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Someone had an IR thermometer and shot the intake manifold at the end of at least the first run (with SDI intake), I don't remember if he did it at the end of the 2nd run with the ALH intake or not). I don't remember the temp exactly, but I do rember thinking that it was not as hot as I though it would be (I want to say it was 150F or so? but really can't remember). I'll try and find out

Ambient temps were ~same between tests - it might have been a few degrees warmer/cooler as it was partly sunny/cloudy/breezy that day, but not much. Dyno's were at 1:00 and 2:45 PM. I ended up running it on the dyno for a few minutes with all accessories on at 1500 RPM to get it warmed up to ~190F before starting the dyno pulls. I did remember to turn all the accessories off between runs - I double checked that. Last year when I ran, I noticed the coolant temps got pretty high (105C+) so this year I ran the heater on full blast during/after the run and it kept the temps down to ~95C or so.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I have ordered a complete R32 Snorkle back TIP kit as well as a PD150 Intake From Ryanp. I will get it Dyno'ed with a before and after. Ill let you guys know.

That would be great - Thanks!

 

[StingrayRT]

The same SDI intake dynoed with seat 130PD with GT1756V and 22Hp more than stock 130PD. Large plenum intake as SDi need to slow down the air speed. Minimum 70mm as input hose due the very short distance to intake runner. SDi intake has sense when you have a modified engine with large compressor flow if not is just loosing money....

 

[O.C.TDI]

How many runs were done total? And how many of those were done with each intake?
I know with the PD and EDC16 the linear logic of the ecu will adjust and compensate to running conditions quite a bit. My first run is always lower than the following runs because the ecu realizes I am not commuting and I have started demanding the car to produce max power over and over again.

I am very interested in your findings since I have been running this intake for almost 2 years.
I find your results a little hard to believe. The previous dyno's with G60 and 1z intakes have shown gains over stock in the past. The SDI is pretty much the same runner length and plenum size of those it is just rolled up into a tighter package.

I am by no means trying to pick at it. I just want to try to rule out variables that could contribute to a loss.

Variable's I see... Inlet hole on intake reduced from 2.5 to 2"(I know piping size didn't change but intake volume did), order in which dyno's were done.

 

[TDIsyncro]

The same SDI intake dynoed with seat 130PD with GT1756V and 22Hp more than stock 130PD. Large plenum intake as SDi need to slow down the air speed. Minimum 70mm as input hose due the very short distance to intake runner. SDi intake has sense when you have a modified engine with large compressor flow if not is just loosing money....

I agree. It would be nice to see OC do a comparative run with his set-up and see if there is gains in higher HP application as Marek indicates.

 

[O.C.TDI]

I agree. It would be nice to see OC do a comparative run with his set-up and see if there is gains in higher HP application as Marek indicates.

Good luck... That guy is a slacker and detests working on his car and only does it when it is absolutely necessary. Too much work involved swapping even a left hand pd130 manifold.

 

[TDIsyncro]

Good luck... That guy is a slacker and detests working on his car and only does it when it is absolutely necessary. Too much work involved swapping even a left hand pd130 manifold.

what..dont like me volunteering your proven talents?

 

[2footbraker]

Good experiment. Thanks for posting the results.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Please, pick away at the data, method, etc. If I screwed something up, I want to know about it, figure it out and fix it. That's the whole point of this forum

There were 4 runs done total in this order

1) SDI Intake and TDTuning tune - MAF plugged in

came off dyno, intake swapped for ALH
back on dyno, warmed up

2) ALH Intake and same TDTuning tune - MAF NOT plugged in
3.0) Aborted run at 2000 RPM - forgot to plug in MAF after intake change and RC6 uses MAF
3) ALH Intake and RC6 - Different ECU
4) ALH Intake and RC5 - Different ECU

I don't know if the EDC15 ECU's "learn" driving style or not like the EDC16's do?

Here's an overlay with all the dyno runs numbered

 

[hatemi]

So the car was unstrapped between the runs? Depending on the dyno WHP will be altered by some or considerable amount depending how tight the straps are and at what part of the rollers the wheels make contact. WHP is useless if the car was unstrapped between the runs. You need to do the rolldown and calculate the losses to know the real difference.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

The car was un-strapped between 1st and 2nd runs, driven off the dyno - Intake swapped, then back on the dyno. Runs 2-3-4 were all done without unstrapping.

The dyno does do a coast down at the end before it calculates the HP and Torque, but I'm not sure if it's measuring rolling resistance or just slowing down?

 

[VWBeamer]

Thanks, I do find it hard to believe at the very least I thought it would be the same. I still have mine and still plan to try it out.

 

[O.C.TDI]

I notice a trend of improving numbers with each pass even in the rc6 vs. rc5 (aside from the initial torque spike), on top of the car being unstrapped and re-strapped.
Hatemi brings up some very good points on strap tension and wheel position.

This really make me want to test this out on my car but I am not going to allow myself to. I need to focus on the research I am already doing before I start going to many different directions.

Thanks for doing this, I applaud your time and research especially with the detail you have provided. I know what it takes to collect and present this kind of information.

 

[VWBeamer]

LOL, my aircooled car is MAKING 5 TIMES the factory output, people have been hotrodding cars for ever, stock sucks.

Congratulations on a very nicely documented test!

This is the type of testing the factory does on each and every part to come up with their stock engines. That is why it is so hard to improve on the factory and to make it last for the lifetime of the car.

Many years ago, I had the chance to review a whole series of documented Chevrolet dyno development tests of the old Corvair high performance engines. Very enlightening to see all the tests the factory does before releasing a production engine.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

This might be another trivial bit of information but I plotted the IQ and HP vs RPM on the very simple idea that more fuel makes more power.

Obviously that's not the case and/or there are other factors involved - Injection timing probably being a significant one (which I did not collect).

What I find very interesting is that the fuel delivery is more/less constant (per stroke) from 2000-4000 RPM, where as power is not. No big surprises here, probably just stating the obvious, just never seen the two compared to eachother.

The other interesting thing here is that for the same tune, the fuel delivery is higher earlier on the ALH than the SDI so that makes some sense as to why it makes more power at lower RPM's (there's more fuel), but that theory kind of falls apart at higher RPM's where the ALH intake maintains it's advantage even though fuel delivery is the same