Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
The dealer will notice a reflash if connected to the tool. If found they will also mark it TD1 for non warranty.
Scoping out a new TDI
- Thread starter Nero Morg
- Start date
whatnxt
Veteran Member
Nero Morg
Congratulation on your purchase. Enjoy. My Q5 TDI puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. Just did a trip to the Oregon coast. 36 mpg. 80 is way too easy to cruz at.
Congratulation on your purchase. Enjoy. My Q5 TDI puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. Just did a trip to the Oregon coast. 36 mpg. 80 is way too easy to cruz at.
eyyopomps
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
- Location
- Daytona Beach, FL
- TDI
- 2014 Audi Q5, 1998 MK3 Jetta, 2010 MK6 Golf, 2000 Jetta TDI
I have yet to find a thread on here that has actually confirmed that. It's a crapshoot of if they bother to look for a reflash or if they even care at all.
Nero Morg
Top Post Dawg
But there has been some serious rumors going around about smog testing, don't know how accurate that is. I planned on just keeping it stock for now, has plenty of pep and power for my liking.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Yeah, they are certainly not hurting for power.
In other news, another EA888 engine in today that is dead. 2011 GTI.
In other news, another EA888 engine in today that is dead. 2011 GTI.
RexNICO
Veteran Member
Sorry for the late reply.
We picked ours up with 75K and the carfax showed a trans service in the 60k range. We're still under 90k, so I haven't given it much thought.
RexNICO
Veteran Member
Out of curiosity, what seems to be the "solution" most choose when this happens? Do they junk the car? Band-aide the issue and dump it?Yeah, they are certainly not hurting for power.
In other news, another EA888 engine in today that is dead. 2011 GTI.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Rex, I have three here now, you can ask... LOL... one the poor broad still owes money on it. Pretty sure it has been abandoned here, and the bank is looking for it. But we cannot legally do anything (it is parked on the street) until its plates expire.
Many get junked. Some get used engines (a very risky choice, and I rarely do those). A few, if they are really nice, and the owner is able, do indeed get shiny new engines, like the 2014 Q5 pictured above.
This 2011 GTI here is really nice, too bad it has a pedal deficiency or I might offer to buy it from him. It would be worth it (to me) to spend $5-7k on a new engine knowing that I'd likely never mile it up enough to be a problem.
Many get junked. Some get used engines (a very risky choice, and I rarely do those). A few, if they are really nice, and the owner is able, do indeed get shiny new engines, like the 2014 Q5 pictured above.
This 2011 GTI here is really nice, too bad it has a pedal deficiency or I might offer to buy it from him. It would be worth it (to me) to spend $5-7k on a new engine knowing that I'd likely never mile it up enough to be a problem.
Nero Morg
Top Post Dawg
@oilhammer so what breaks on them? Oil pump chain snapped and grinded out all the bearings?
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
A handful of things.
First, they decided to come up with what has to be the dumbest, cheesiest, worst arrangement for indexing the crank pulley on to the snout of the crank... no keyway, no 'D' shape or flat, it instead has a bunch of little bumps. This would not really be a thing of note, if it was not such a potential pain in the butt to get back together correctly AND that you even had cause to have to deal with it ever anyway. But the chain tensioner, the chain drive in general, and the cam phaser bracket with its tiny little screens and oil passages are a chronic problem on them.
Next would be the weak crankcase pressure regulator. On turbo gas engines, they have to vent crankcase vapors two ways, depending on if the engine is under boost/open throttle, or under vacuum/closed throttle. They used to have a pretty obnoxious setup of check valves, hoses, tubes, more check valves, more tubes, and all sorts of things to accomplish this task (anyone that is familiar with the 'old' 5v turbo gas engines knows those all too well). When the first DI turbo engines came out, they streamlined most all of that nonsense into one simple pressure regulator. But when they go bad, they typically would just cause poor driveability, MIL on due to lambda control being off, idle speed off, etc. But with the EA888 engines, when they go bad, they let the turbocharger boost the crankcase... and this exploits the next in a long line of dumb design features: the rear main seal.
See, for decades (literally, since Audi first designed the water cooled inline engines for Volkswagen), they used a conventional type crankcase seal. These rarely fail, typically last a good long time. But they came up with a new design, just a single piece of material with one lip, bonded to a cheap stamped steel plate, screwed to the back of the block/oil pan. When (not if) the pressure regulator fails, it just blows that material right clean off of the steel plate, and the engine starts puking oil out the bellhouse when under boost, and sucking air back in while at idle. I probably did 20+ EA888 rear main seals last year, and another ~8 or so this year so far. The aftermarket came up with an improved setup, which ironically is basically the old design adapted to the new engine, but they seem kinda poorly made to me but maybe there are other companies that have better stuff.
Then the water pumps: These are all contained in one big chunk (housing, pump, thermostat, etc.) living against the side of the block, UNDER the intake manifold. Made of... PLASTIC. And they warp and crack and start spewing coolant down the side of the engine. There is an aluminum replacement available for that in the aftermarket, too. But there is also a plastic coolant pipe that also likes to spontaneously crack and empty the coolant on to the ground.
Speaking of the intake: these failed... a LOT. So much, they extended the warranty on them. The updated version has the vacuum vent for the intake runners go to a little filter, as they think that was the cause.
These engines also suffer from intake port gunking up, much worse than any other DI gasser I have ever seen (by far). Short trips are especially bad on them. I have some customers that I have had the intakes off a half dozen times already, between the intake failing, the water pump failing, or the intake ports gunking up.
The turbochargers: these get wonky worn out wastegate linkages, causing phantom low boost DTCs if asked for full boost for too long, because the wastegate itself cannot stay closed sufficiently. There is a little clip you can put on them that helps some, but not always (new BW turbos started coming with the clip as new a few years back).
Oil consumption... it can be anywhere from a minor nuisance to "holy crap is there a hole in this engine?" kind of thing. While most of the Audi branded stuff gets graced with an actual oil level sensor (many of those cars do not even have a dipstick), the Volkswagens often are not so lucky. So if you do not avail yourself of the dipstick's ability to tell you how much oil you are using, you'll be running the engine low a lot. With the 10k mile service interval, this means a lot of these cars are essentially low on oil in perpetuity ... they are only "full" right after a service. Within 1000 miles they are low (low meaning, below the "operational" range on the stick, where equipped).
Improvements have been made, but some things are no better, just different. Like the water pump housings. Still plastic, still leak prone, but now house a little motor because a "smart" thermostat is what the Germans felt was needed. So when someone cries about a CJAA TDI needing a timing belt job at 120k miles for $900, remember a lot of the newer 1.8L and 2.0L EA888 engines need water pumps at 80k miles for $1600 (not kidding, price one, it's INSANE).
Oh, and one the newer ones they moved the CMP sensor from the top of the engine up high, easy to get at, to an angle that requires the intake manifold be removed. BRILLIANT!
They also have camshaft problems on the new ones.... which you'd think by now they'd learned.
They also decided to put PLASTIC OIL PANS on the newest versions. Yes. Plastic. Oil pan.
First, they decided to come up with what has to be the dumbest, cheesiest, worst arrangement for indexing the crank pulley on to the snout of the crank... no keyway, no 'D' shape or flat, it instead has a bunch of little bumps. This would not really be a thing of note, if it was not such a potential pain in the butt to get back together correctly AND that you even had cause to have to deal with it ever anyway. But the chain tensioner, the chain drive in general, and the cam phaser bracket with its tiny little screens and oil passages are a chronic problem on them.
Next would be the weak crankcase pressure regulator. On turbo gas engines, they have to vent crankcase vapors two ways, depending on if the engine is under boost/open throttle, or under vacuum/closed throttle. They used to have a pretty obnoxious setup of check valves, hoses, tubes, more check valves, more tubes, and all sorts of things to accomplish this task (anyone that is familiar with the 'old' 5v turbo gas engines knows those all too well). When the first DI turbo engines came out, they streamlined most all of that nonsense into one simple pressure regulator. But when they go bad, they typically would just cause poor driveability, MIL on due to lambda control being off, idle speed off, etc. But with the EA888 engines, when they go bad, they let the turbocharger boost the crankcase... and this exploits the next in a long line of dumb design features: the rear main seal.
See, for decades (literally, since Audi first designed the water cooled inline engines for Volkswagen), they used a conventional type crankcase seal. These rarely fail, typically last a good long time. But they came up with a new design, just a single piece of material with one lip, bonded to a cheap stamped steel plate, screwed to the back of the block/oil pan. When (not if) the pressure regulator fails, it just blows that material right clean off of the steel plate, and the engine starts puking oil out the bellhouse when under boost, and sucking air back in while at idle. I probably did 20+ EA888 rear main seals last year, and another ~8 or so this year so far. The aftermarket came up with an improved setup, which ironically is basically the old design adapted to the new engine, but they seem kinda poorly made to me but maybe there are other companies that have better stuff.
Then the water pumps: These are all contained in one big chunk (housing, pump, thermostat, etc.) living against the side of the block, UNDER the intake manifold. Made of... PLASTIC. And they warp and crack and start spewing coolant down the side of the engine. There is an aluminum replacement available for that in the aftermarket, too. But there is also a plastic coolant pipe that also likes to spontaneously crack and empty the coolant on to the ground.
Speaking of the intake: these failed... a LOT. So much, they extended the warranty on them. The updated version has the vacuum vent for the intake runners go to a little filter, as they think that was the cause.
These engines also suffer from intake port gunking up, much worse than any other DI gasser I have ever seen (by far). Short trips are especially bad on them. I have some customers that I have had the intakes off a half dozen times already, between the intake failing, the water pump failing, or the intake ports gunking up.
The turbochargers: these get wonky worn out wastegate linkages, causing phantom low boost DTCs if asked for full boost for too long, because the wastegate itself cannot stay closed sufficiently. There is a little clip you can put on them that helps some, but not always (new BW turbos started coming with the clip as new a few years back).
Oil consumption... it can be anywhere from a minor nuisance to "holy crap is there a hole in this engine?" kind of thing. While most of the Audi branded stuff gets graced with an actual oil level sensor (many of those cars do not even have a dipstick), the Volkswagens often are not so lucky. So if you do not avail yourself of the dipstick's ability to tell you how much oil you are using, you'll be running the engine low a lot. With the 10k mile service interval, this means a lot of these cars are essentially low on oil in perpetuity ... they are only "full" right after a service. Within 1000 miles they are low (low meaning, below the "operational" range on the stick, where equipped).
Improvements have been made, but some things are no better, just different. Like the water pump housings. Still plastic, still leak prone, but now house a little motor because a "smart" thermostat is what the Germans felt was needed. So when someone cries about a CJAA TDI needing a timing belt job at 120k miles for $900, remember a lot of the newer 1.8L and 2.0L EA888 engines need water pumps at 80k miles for $1600 (not kidding, price one, it's INSANE).
Oh, and one the newer ones they moved the CMP sensor from the top of the engine up high, easy to get at, to an angle that requires the intake manifold be removed. BRILLIANT!
They also have camshaft problems on the new ones.... which you'd think by now they'd learned.
They also decided to put PLASTIC OIL PANS on the newest versions. Yes. Plastic. Oil pan.
RexNICO
Veteran Member
@oilhammer - thanks for the detailed response.
My better half had a Tiguan lease a few years back and I strongly discouraged buying it instead of turning it back in. There's a bigger lease discussion, but this isn't the place for that.
That said, we've considered picking up a used one ... we can mark that off the list now, unless we can find a TDI swapped one, like was for sale on here a few months back.
Thanks again
@Nero Morg - how's the first week of ownership going? Have any AdBlue on hand?
My better half had a Tiguan lease a few years back and I strongly discouraged buying it instead of turning it back in. There's a bigger lease discussion, but this isn't the place for that.
That said, we've considered picking up a used one ... we can mark that off the list now, unless we can find a TDI swapped one, like was for sale on here a few months back.
Thanks again
@Nero Morg - how's the first week of ownership going? Have any AdBlue on hand?
Nero Morg
Top Post Dawg
I don't have any AdBlue on hand, but my local Napa had a ton of it on hand, plus I'm sure I could get some through work. Benifits of working in a truck shop.
So far I'm definitely liking the available power when I need/want it, but otherwise it's super comfortable, and just relaxing to drive in. Sure, the gauge shows that my avg fuel eco is about 28mpg right now, but that's not far off from the 32 I was getting in my wagon... Damn hills I drive every day....
I'm definitely liking the driver assist package that was put on, being as it's only the prem plus trim, it's nice setting the cruise and letting the engine brake itself going down the hill after I get to the top. While a prestige would have been nice, the price tag was too much for me. So far zero regrets. Wish I had done it sooner.
So far I'm definitely liking the available power when I need/want it, but otherwise it's super comfortable, and just relaxing to drive in. Sure, the gauge shows that my avg fuel eco is about 28mpg right now, but that's not far off from the 32 I was getting in my wagon... Damn hills I drive every day....
I'm definitely liking the driver assist package that was put on, being as it's only the prem plus trim, it's nice setting the cruise and letting the engine brake itself going down the hill after I get to the top. While a prestige would have been nice, the price tag was too much for me. So far zero regrets. Wish I had done it sooner.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Sad that the EA888s are so fragile, because for the most part, the cars they are bolted in are pretty good. The first gen Tiggy, if you just crossed off all the engine issues, is otherwise virtually trouble free after a couple minor things early on (fuse box for one).
gforce1108
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
- Location
- Newburgh, NY
- TDI
- 04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
And people give me crap when I say that the 2.0TSI is garbage. I'd have a Arteon if they had a real engine in it. As far as the RMS, have you tried the iAbed engineering one? Very nicely made. Major improvement over the stock one.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
That looks to be far better than the one I tried. Where do you get those?
gforce1108
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
- Location
- Newburgh, NY
- TDI
- 04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
I ordered it through ECS but it's available in a number of locations. ECS, HPA, FCPEuro...
Audi Porsche VW Crankshaft Seal - iAbed 462103171F
Audi Porsche VW Crankshaft Seal - iAbed 462103171F
www.fcpeuro.com
iAbed industries has some cool products out there.
gforce1108
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
- Location
- Newburgh, NY
- TDI
- 04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
Something else they make - https://byiabed-com.3dcartstores.com/EA888-Baffled-Aluminum-Oil-Pan_p_77.html
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
That rear seal flange design is unique to the EA888 gasoline four cylinders. The TDIs from the BRM forward, as well as the late gas 2.5L 5 cyl, all use the big chunky type that has the CKP sensor ring contained within.
All the late V6s, gas or diesel, are a completely different arrangement anyway.... they are akin to the VR6. You'll have to get the flange off to deal with the chains long before the seal itself will be an issue.
All the late V6s, gas or diesel, are a completely different arrangement anyway.... they are akin to the VR6. You'll have to get the flange off to deal with the chains long before the seal itself will be an issue.