Saturn TDI Conversion

[tomstdi]

Awesome. Putting a TDI into an earlier VW is cake compared to this! WOW, you have SKILLS!

 

[bhtooefr]

To whoever asked about the Saturn Vue... it's not at all related to the SL2.

It rides on the Theta platform, which is what the Chevy Equinox, Pontiac Torrent, and (the closest relative) Opel Antara ride on.

The 1st-gen uses Ecotec 4-cylinders, an Opel V6, and a Honda V6.

The 2nd-gen uses Ecotec 4-cylinders, a GM OHV V6, and a GM DOHC V6.

So, your best bet for a swap is probably a Euro 4-cyl diesel out of an Opel/Vauxhall. Absolute best bet would be the VM Motori RA 420, which is used in the Opel Antara. It would be probably be a direct swap into the 2nd-gen Vue.

 

[CFM]

Just wanted to update everyone on the progress; haven't had much time or weather (lots of snow) lately, but I did get the engine cradle dropped out of the car last week and have been welding/finishing it up. I boxed in where I notched it for transaxle and waterpump pulley clearance, added some extra material thickness where the motor mounts bolt up, and did some cleaning and minor repairs. Once this is back in the car, I can start putting everything together and hopefully have it running this spring. I'll get some pictures posted soon.

 

[CFM]

Here's a couple shots of the engine cradle, showing where I recessed it for the water pump pulley clearance, and an overview of it in front of a stock cradle. You can see where I made up some new pieces for the front crossmember to bolt to, plus I filled in some holes I made so I could weld the spot-welded nuts (really sucks when one of those comes loose when you are unbolting something). I have it painted and sitting next to the woodstove, hoping to put it back in the car this weekend if the weather cooperates.

A friend of mine who builds stock cars just bought his own tubing bender for roll cages/frames, and we got to talking about building a new engine cradle out of tubing. It would be SO much nicer to do that rather than deal with the stock Saturn ones...I've repaired a few of these, they tend to get rusty in the seams and recesses being made of stamped sheetmetal and spot-welded together. For now, I'm just going to use this one to qualify the engine swap and add the tube cradle to my ever-growing list of cool projects I'd like to build.

 

[CFM]

Finally got the engine cradle installed in the car yesterday...I made a couple of 2X4 trusses for supporting the TDI drivetrain while the cradle was out. It only took me an hour to install the cradle and get the motor positioned back into place, a floor jack and a plank really work nice for this task. I also installed new lower control arms and a set of Energy Suspension urethane bushings; I already have a full set in the SW2, and really like them.

I also made up a stainless steel extention/adapter for the upper radiator hose to mate the TDI to the Saturn radiator, I slid it in just for the picture. Now that the car is back on the ground I can start in on putting it together and get it running!

 

[Herm TDI]

CFM...your skill & ability amaze me. You must have one hellofa equiped garage to do all of this.

 

[Herm TDI]

Hoping for some decent weather this weekend so I can cast an aluminum shift knob for it.

You make castings too !

 

[bmwvw]

you are the shiznit That car would fly, seeming it so lite.

 

[CFM]

You make castings too !

Sure do, I have a small home foundry setup that makes so much possible; go to www.lindsaybks.com and check out their books. I got started with the Gingery series years ago, and I just keep buying books as I get into new projects (or trouble). My current foundry setup will melt up to a full gallon of aluminum, although I would like to build a new small furnace to do just a couple of quarts for quick projects. Really impresses the neighbors when I get the furnace going full-bore!

 

[Rexking414]

What's the ferquency Kenneth? Get it on the road yet?

 

[agdtec]

Wow I just joined this discussion and you have really auesome skills. What do you do for your day job rocket science?

 

[CFM]

Haven't got it on the road yet, but it's getting closer! No rocket science here (although I just finished Physics II), but I do a lot of TIG welding and machine work for a living. I need to get some pics posted up, my apologies for not having updated this in awhile...work and school have kept me pretty busy.

 

[CFM]

Finally some long-overdue visual updates. As you can see, I cut up the SAAB intercooler and made it one long one to fit the Saturn; being a 15-tube intercooler, it looks a little lopsided, but the eight tubes feed into the seven tubes as it did in the SAAB. I made a small shelf that bolts into some existing holes in the Saturn radiator to support it, and will make a couple of brackets to bolt it to the origional A/C condenser holes in the radiator. I bent up some stainless steel fuel lines to route them over to the drivers side where the Saturn fuel lines run, just need to finish making some brackets to bolt it to the TDI, picking up some existing mounting points.

I spaced the Saturn fan foward about 3/8" to clear the oil filter; it's a bit tight, maybe an 1/8" or so, I'll have to see if I can move it forward a bit more. I bought a Super Tech ST8 (same as a Fram PH8) to try...I can get it on and off ok, just would like a little more room in there as I'm not sure yet how much room I'll have when the motor is running.

The shifter is one of those "wish I'd figured this out before" projects, when I discovered that the TDI shifter had the same forward hole spacing as the Saturn shifter, just needed a couple of 5/8" CRS stand-offs to bolt it in. I reamed the extra holes in the TDI shifter base and moved the studs around, then made an .090" aluminum bridge to support the shifter front-to-rear, and a couple of 5/8" aluminum blocks to mate the bridge to the Saturn rear shifter mounting points. It centers perfectly in the console, and functions better than the Saturn shifter I reworked. I raised the pivot point by 3/4" to shorten the throw, just need to put the console back in and measure how much I can cut the shaft down. I'll probably thread this for the shift knob, haven't figured out yet what I will use.

 

[Frankendiesel]

Looking good man. I'm now running into a few of the same issues myself! I'll post pic's soon over on my thread, but I wanted to know if you were considering a slimline electric fan at all. I know Spal makes a nice big slim fan, possibly others. I am running into the VW alternator with the Chrysler fan and am thinking up alternatives. On my Mercedes, the electric fan is on the front side of the radiator, that could be another alternative (needs to be weather proof though!).

Nice work so far. Any thoughts so far on the air intake plumbing? I like the turbo intercooler muey much - great work. I don't have access to a Tig welder (or scrap SS for that matter) so I'm afraid I'll be doing the ol' flexible rubber hose route, at least for now.

Travis

 

[CFM]

I need to sit down and place an order to Summit Racing for some stainless steel U-bends to finish the intercooler plumbing; I figure three of them will be enough to do the job, just a matter of cutting them up and welding them back together into the proper configuration. On the intake side, I can use the TDI plumbing to the MAF, but have to find a suitable air filter...K&N seems to be ruled out with the TDI, but I've seen cleanable dry filter cones, just need to research it more.

I think I will be ok with the Saturn fan, my latest snag is coming up with a temp sensor to ground out the fan relay to turn it on; I've looked over the schematics for the TDI fan, but haven't sat down to really study it in detail yet.

How did you make out with the ambient temp sensor? I have something like that as described in your thread, but it didn't run to the ECU, and didn't come across anything of that description in the schematics and ECU pinouts, unless it is labeled as something else and I don't realize it.

 

[Frankendiesel]

You lucky stainless-steel-welding guy you...wish I had a TIG .

The ambient temp sense - funny you should mention it, I am just logging in to pay for one from Kleiner's over here in Iowa. I was told by someone on the forum that it takes that signal as ambient temp to determine glow plug cycle (and other things?). But as I sit and think of it, when I ran my engine on the test stand, I did not have this little sensor hooked up and the ECU did not flag any codes as such. I wonder if this ambient temp sense is the one I've seen in the A/C circuit instead. I think I'll cancel that from Kleiner's, but it is only $10....hmmm.

So, based on that data, I'm going to assume the ECU has an ambient temp sensor inside the box. This means I'll probably have to find room under the hood for the ECU; goody.

As for the cooling fan, if I were doing it I'd let the VW cooling fan relay control the operation. It takes an input (can't get to my schematics right now, sleepy infant on lap) from the A/C switch to determine when to turn on for A/C mode as well as when to turn on to cool the engine. That way, you don't need to change any sensors, just supply a +12V signal from the Saturn chassis A/C control to the right pin on the cooling fan relay. I'll get that pin # to you if you need it (yours is from a '96, right?).

Travis

 

[mr.mindless]

you know you don't need TiG to weld stainless, just stainless wire and trimix gas. you can stick weld Aluminum if you have an A/C option on you buzz box too....

but for thin stuff TiG is really the only way to go. I miss my access to one very much. Smells better than any other welding too

 

[CFM]

I've done some gas welding of thin mild steel in the past; used to be pretty good at it, but I'm so spoiled by TIG that I'd have to practice to get back into it again. I've read about gas welding aluminum, always wanted to try my hand at that.

Thanks for the info, Travis (BTW, mine is a '97, but probably not much different), I'll have to do a little research on that one and see what I can make work. In my SW2, I have a manual fan switch that I often use in traffic rather than wait for the ECU to kick the fan on; it just grounds the fan relay, hence my search for a small thermostat fan switch that would activate the fan automatically. I'll have to check some of the street rod magazines, they always have some clever solutions.

 

[Jason D]

CFM-I have a fan controller on my Mustang (that I cannot for the life of me think of right now) that can be set for a # of different temperatures and has a temp probe that you wedge between the radiator fins. It makes it easier on the electrical system because it can vary the voltage to the fan. It also has an input if you want to use a/c that can kick the fan on when the compressor comes on. I'll do a little digging for the name, if I remember it was about $120 but it works seamlessly and you don't have to mess with a switch.

edit-the company is dc control.

 

[CFM]

Thanks, Jason! I'll have to check that out...a little more elaborate than what I was looking for, but they might have some other offerings.

 

[alphaseinor]

I always thought the IAT was in the MAF...

Looking great!

 

[burpod]

holy crap!!! i saw this thread a while back and was like "what a dumb idea and waste of time"... nice freekin job tho!!! wow. that'll be a sweet-ass sleeper!! hahaha!!! congrats, and nice pics!

 

[RabbitsKin]

Wow, I've been pondering this exact swap in my mind....then I come on here, and someone is actually making it happen! Our '92 SL1 we bought new was the best car we ever had. With its small frontal area and light weight, it seems like the perfect candidate for this type of swap. Now just think if you had an 02M in there

 

[bmwvw]

Hey, havent checked in for some time and it looks as though shes ready to go. Congrats on one unique and well put together project. Its what GM should have put in there in the fist place (nice welds on the intercooler, me likey)

 

[CFM]

Thanks, it's getting closer...just a lot of little details. I finally got the wiring harness in the car over the weekend, just need to clean up the routing and integrate it into the Saturn harness under the dash. In the process of setting up a mounting point for the MAF and AEM Dryflow cone filter; I discovered that the coolant overflow tank outlet and plumbing is in the way, so I'm reworking that for some extra room. Just started to make a downpipe for it...I bought a 2.5" stainless steel mandrel bend and flex coupling from Summit, but the radius isn't tight enough. It's just a matter of making numerous saw cuts and welding them up to decrease the radius enough, just extra work to do it.

 

[AmericanMuscleDubbn']

Just wondering how this is going?

 

[agdtec]

Anybody know if he is still working on this or did he finish?

 

[CFM]

Sorry to have dropped out of sight for awhile; my schedule lately has just been nuts, so I haven't done as much as I would have liked. The downpipe is nearly done, will get pictures of that once I'm satisfied with the fit. I have some 2" mandrel bends for the intercooler plumbing, and I picked up an AEM dryflow cone filter that, with a little adapting, will fit up to the MAF sensor very nicely. Then I discovered that the coolant tank outlet was in the way, so I ended up making a new stainless steel line that moves the connection back a few inches. I'm hoping to work on some of the wiring this weekend, trying to divide my time between work, school, a few cord of wood that needs to be cut, and the TDI project!

 

[CFM]

A little more progress...just never enough hours in the day to do everything. I need to get some pictures posted, but the AEM filter is bolted up to the MAF; got creative with a mounting bracket that attaches to the upper alternator bolt to support the filter. Laid out some of the wiring under the dash, but haven't gotten back to it yet. I'm SO close, yet so far away...!

 

[CFM]

This weekend I finally tied the TDI harness into the Saturn cluster harness and powered it up for the first time. The initial test went well with just one exception: the oil pressure light. The harness had bench-tested fine, so it took me a few minutes to figure out what was going on in the car. What I found is that the TDI oil pressure switches are an open circuit with no oil pressure, while the Saturn (and my '60 VW Bug) oil pressure switches are grounded with no oil pressure. So now what I need to find is an oil pressure switch that is closed with no oil pressure...any recommendations from the TDI panel of experts?